Those of you with apprentices

[plumben]

I have had an apprentice for 3 months now. He is doing ok, and just ok. I have put a lot of time in to teaching him etc but at the moment the only real thing he is good for is tidying up and getting the tools. Last night I get a text message at 9.30 which reads "Alright mate have just been thinking, iv been with you a while now and I think I have progressed a lot in that time so id like to suggest a raise in wages please mate. Lemme know what you think"

He is on £3.30 an hour, so above the minimum wage for a first year apprentice, but he certainly doesn't earn me any more than I pay him in a week. To be honest the cheek of asking has really wound me up. He has been far from the model employee to date and I have given him possibly more chances than I should have done. Examples of this are taking breaks for cigarettes when it has been made clear that the only time for smoking is lunch time, after doing any small amount of physical work I have caught him just sitting around having a break or walking off to the shop, not being ready when I pick him up from his house in the mornings. I am now thinking about getting rid of him if this is a sign of things to come. I never once asked for a pay rise while I was an apprentice, I was happy for the opportunity to be taught the trade I wanted to do.

Anyone had a similar experience and how did you deal with it?

If you don't want him give him the sack
tell him what he needs to know,
Let him know that he's not ready for a pay rise yet,
Give him an alternative, tools they don't have to be the best "bachos" but
Advise that bachos are the better tool.... if you see what I mean I wish idd been told things like that

As for being late, you've got to remember if he's only been working 3 months he's probley used to getting up at 2pm, you could always send a text before you leave then he's got no excuse

 

[Masood]

As for being late, you've got to remember if he's only been working 3 months he's probley used to getting up at 2pm, you could always send a text before you leave then he's got no excuse

NO! Absolutely not! It is NOT for the employer to mother his apprentice. If the boy wants a job, he has to organise and motivate himself to get up, get ready and get out of the door. Unbelievable!

If you worked for a firm and were late in the mornings would you expect an alarm call or a warning? How is that teaching the lad to take responsibility for himself? At 17 he should know how to set an alarm!

 

[kay-jay]

organise a public stoning! that will sort his attitude out. :wazzzup:

 

[Masood]

organise a public stoning! that will sort his attitude out. :wazzzup:

He's probably stoned most days anyway!

 

[plumben]

NO! Absolutely not! It is NOT for the employer to mother his apprentice. If the boy wants a job, he has to organise and motivate himself to get up, get ready and get out of the door. Unbelievable!

If you worked for a firm and were late in the mornings would you expect an alarm call or a warning? How is that teaching the lad to take responsibility for himself? At 17 he should know how to set an alarm!

I'll agree yes theres no excuse to not being up and ready
but whenever I pick someone up it takes me two seconds to let them know I'm on my way
And if they haven't let me know they'll be late by the second beep on the horn I'm gone and they've got no excuse

 

[kay-jay]

Being late is unnacceptable......

Unless im the one thats late in which case its perfectly fine.

 

[Dotty]

I never got a text when I was an apprentice. I never got picked up either.

I had to be at the yard at 7.45 each morning. If I was late. I'd be left behind. And then I'd have to explain to my manager why I was late. And unless it was beyond my control I'd be for the high jump.

Kids these days get life handed to them on a plate. I don't subscribe to that school of thought.

I won't teach a kid unless he shows an interest and is always asking me relevant questions, and then I'll do everything to help them learn. I never give a straight answer either. I guide them into working it out for themselves.

If they're not interested why should I waste my time and effort?

 

[Masood]

Kids these days get life handed to them on a plate. I don't subscribe to that school of thought.

I won't teach a kid unless he shows an interest and is always asking me relevant questions, and then I'll do everything to help them learn. I never give a straight answer either. I guide them into working it out for themselves.

If they're not interested why should I waste my time and effort?

Absolutely. My normal answer to questions, be it from a trainee or my daughter (14) is "Well, what do YOU think?" or "How do YOU think it works?" The difference between them learning by numbers or gaining a real understanding which enables them to figure out future problems.

My missus teaches maths and despairs at new rules which basically mean they only have time and resources to spoon-feed the kids what they need to pass GCSE. We're creating a generation of robots with no ability to analyse and reason.

 

[dom brennan]

I've just finished my level 2 and just started level 3, I'm on £100 per week for around 45-50 hours per week. I've not once complained about my wages once ,I've thought of asking for a pay rise but I've not got the guts. when we are on boiler swaps my job is to drain down, take the old boiler off why my boss is at the merchants getting the new one, then i hang the new one and pipe it up and do the electrics why he's doing the flue and condensate. from the day i stated i put away £15 per week to buy tools. I've just bought a van out of my own money. i use that to do small jobs for him. one thing i do is take home the old boilers and weigh them in we used only give them scrap men anyway i get about £18 per boiler if i strip them down.
By the way I'm 18 and if I'm late i get a warning and if I'm late twice i would probably see the door.

 

[Destroyer2813]

If he's late leave him behind happened to me a couple of times when I first started out when I slepped through the alarm he'll soon work it out when it reflects in his wages

 

[lame plumber]

my last one i had for a while was late up, on the phone and smoking, final straw was when he was away on his phone smoking despite his final warning and I had finished the job, so I went home (3/4 hour drive). His mommy was furious with me as she had to go collect the 18 yr old ****, but I wasnt to worried as he no longer had a job. I never bothered with them again.

 

[turnpin]

I've just finished my level 2 and just started level 3, I'm on £100 per week for around 45-50 hours per week. I've not once complained about my wages once ,I've thought of asking for a pay rise but I've not got the guts. when we are on boiler swaps my job is to drain down, take the old boiler off why my boss is at the merchants getting the new one, then i hang the new one and pipe it up and do the electrics why he's doing the flue and condensate. from the day i stated i put away £15 per week to buy tools. I've just bought a van out of my own money. i use that to do small jobs for him. one thing i do is take home the old boilers and weigh them in we used only give them scrap men anyway i get about £18 per boiler if i strip them down.
By the way I'm 18 and if I'm late i get a warning and if I'm late twice i would probably see the door.

You will go far young fella you seem to have the right idea well done...regards Turnpin :smile5:

 

[Millsy 82]

my last one i had for a while was late up, on the phone and smoking, final straw was when he was away on his phone smoking despite his final warning and I had finished the job, so I went home (3/4 hour drive). His mommy was furious with me as she had to go collect the 18 yr old ****, but I wasnt to worried as he no longer had a job. I never bothered with them again.

Oh the phone! My pet hate! I used to tell them to leave it in the van as it looks terrible. I had 1 lad work with me for a day in an empty house so never told him to leave it in the van and he was on Facebook every 5 minutes! I asked never to have him again otherwise I would of broke him.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Sack him

 

[Paulplumb]

Sack him

Lol the voice of compassion.

For the first year I was on £30 a week then I got a rise to £35 a week the second year. I was told that in the olden days the apprentices family paid the plumber! I have no idea if that was true or not? If you are paying him £3.30p an hour for 40 hours a week you could give him a very generous pay rise twice the rate of inflation of 3% and it would cost you less than a fiver a week extra! Then beast the little scrote :lol:

 

[mfgs]

Thanks lads, lots of useful input into this. To be completely honest, I think my mind will be made up by how he reacts to me picking him up on sending me a text message rather than asking face to face, If he gets all defensive he will be out the door on the spot. Most jobs have a 3-6 month probation period to see if you are cut out for the work and keep the job, not one person I have asked today would have dared ask fro a pay rise after 3 months, and I have talked this over with lots of people. I am really taken aback by the cheek of him asking in this way.

 

[chris watkins]

Lol the voice of compassion.

For the first year I was on £30 a week then I got a rise to £35 a week the second year. I was told that in the olden days the apprentices family paid the plumber! I have no idea if that was true or not? If you are paying him £3.30p an hour for 40 hours a week you could give him a very generous pay rise twice the rate of inflation of 3% and it would cost you less than a fiver a week extra! Then beast the little scrote :lol:

Here you go then, cos when I was a lad…….. of just turned 16 my weeks money as an apprentice plumber at Matthew Hall was £19.50 & "I had to pay mill owner for permission to come to work" oops sorry slipped into Monty python again.

Paul is correct in the ye olden days (only just before I started) you had to pay the master to take you on as an apprentice, your time lasted for seven years before you went in front of the guild of master plumbers & they decided if you were good enough to practise & allowed you in.

How times have changed !!!

One of the plus sides of paying was that the master was then responsible for boarding & feeding you for the seven years, any of you guys fancy looking after a teenage for seven years ? its bad enough when their your own.

 

[Masood]

I've just finished my level 2 and just started level 3, I'm on £100 per week for around 45-50 hours per week. I've not once complained about my wages once ,I've thought of asking for a pay rise but I've not got the guts. when we are on boiler swaps my job is to drain down, take the old boiler off why my boss is at the merchants getting the new one, then i hang the new one and pipe it up and do the electrics why he's doing the flue and condensate. from the day i stated i put away £15 per week to buy tools. I've just bought a van out of my own money. i use that to do small jobs for him. one thing i do is take home the old boilers and weigh them in we used only give them scrap men anyway i get about £18 per boiler if i strip them down.
By the way I'm 18 and if I'm late i get a warning and if I'm late twice i would probably see the door.

You're learning some of the most valuable skills there are - self-discipline, independence, being able to work autonomously, taking responsibility. As Turnpin says, you seem to be taking all the best lessons from that and you seem like you'll do really well. Although if you're doing all that, and are L2 qualified then I think you should politely ask for some feedback on your value to your boss and discuss a bit of a raise..

 

[cr0ft]

Look on the bright side, at least you haven't had an apprentice ask you for a pay rise after 1 week!!!

Every apprentice who joins my business will be on minimum apprentice rate plus 20p per hour for the whole of their first year.

After the first year they have to go on minimum wage (unless they are under 19 in which case they get a bit longer to prove their worth). The government stipulate this and it puts a bit of pressure on apprentices to learn very quickly in the first year. If they can't do small jobs on their own at this point, they aren't worth paying minimum wage as far as my business is concerned. I would then let them go at this point.

Assuming they can be left to do small jobs after the first year, their pay is determined based on what they can earn the business in a day. I allow a 30% profit margin for the business in this, take off employer on-costs and then get what their wage should be from that. This is reviewed annually.

 

[chris watkins]

Look on the bright side, at least you haven't had an apprentice ask you for a pay rise after 1 week!!!

Every apprentice who joins my business will be on minimum apprentice rate plus 20p per hour for the whole of their first year.

After the first year they have to go on minimum wage (unless they are under 19 in which case they get a bit longer to prove their worth). The government stipulate this and it puts a bit of pressure on apprentices to learn very quickly in the first year. If they can't do small jobs on their own at this point, they aren't worth paying minimum wage as far as my business is concerned. I would then let them go at this point.

Assuming they can be left to do small jobs after the first year, their pay is determined based on what they can earn the business in a day. I allow a 30% profit margin for the business in this, take off employer on-costs and then get what their wage should be from that. This is reviewed annually.

So what you are saying cr0ft is that their apprenticeship last for just one year then?

If you want cheap labour just take on a lad don't call it an apprenticeship.

Seen a few lads dumped on a site in there second year to install boilers & pipe work, thats not teaching them a trade, it is exploitation.