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I started the course at the beginning of the year, the advisor told me that there was a centre in manchester so I'd arranged to stay with friends.....now it is time for my practical I find out there is no centre in manchester, my nearest is leeds!!! paying for hotels, travel..... it's going to cost a lot!! Does anyone know if you can claim any costs back i don't have that kind of money!!
 
Re: tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

hi truemanufan
can you tell me who told you that you get your travelling and accomodation expences covered please, or who i need to ask about it.
Thanks
 
Re: tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

alright mate ,me personanly would not give them a penny as for getting on a plumbing coarse why not try a local collage from my experiance thats the best option.
 
Re: tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

College course plus 3-4 years training, I would recommend. Remember your first year will be spent being a joey.
 
train 4 trade skills scam

i am currently doing a plumbing course with t4ts .i was told when i took the course there was a shortage of 70,000 plumbers in the uk . is this correct? .i have heard the plumbing trade is overflowing at the moment . ihave been to see a lawyer and he has asked me to get as much info as i can on t4ts .is anyone else doing this course and think its a rip off ?. the price of the course was £3950 which i pay £110 per month i have been paying since 01/12/2008
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

no there is no 70000 skills shortage as this is being shamelessly exploited but i fear you are way too late to get any financial refund
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

i still have £2700 to pay i just want the course canceled to save me that £2700
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

there never was an immediate shortage of plumbers ,it was an estimated shortfall of 30,000 over 10 years and did not take into account the reccesion,you were lied to if you were told 70,000,did you get this in writing,
 
I recently enroled on T4TS an have found out that a certain amount of money should b paid before going to the 1st practical and then the ful course fee must b paid before doing all other practicals..im going to cancel my agreement.can any1 suggest a good course to go through as i have no time to go college and these are the only courses im able to do..
 
t4t skills

Hi there i am 2 months in to t4t skills domestic plumbing L2. Read good and bad comments about t4t skills on forum. I was then dissapointed to find out that i could not start the first week of practical training until i had paid the first 1300 pounds of cource fees my foult for not reading small print well enough.My qestion is does anyone know if you have to pay anymore fees before tou can do rest of practical.😕
 
Re: t4t skills

I never realised until i read small print you have to pay 1300 pounds before tou can sit the practical side of the course.I phoned up t4t skills and they said yes i would have to i explained that you promote the course so you can work at own pace,how can you work at your own pace if its going to take 13 months to pay the 1300 aftrerall this is the point of funding.I also asked if i would have to pay the rest of the course fees before i could sit rest of practical she said i wouldent.The reason i asked on forum if anyone knew about this is because this is not the first time they have twisted the truth and was looking for second appinion.
 
Re: tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

i joined the course in febuary of this year after a pushy salesman visited me,
after reading views from others i have now decided dont want to do the course, i have never started never even opened a book,
after being refused my money back even after finding a fault with the contract i am now appealing to anyone who has actually managed to cancel to tell me how they did it!
failing that i would like anyone in the same boat as me to come forth!! as being advised by a lawyer a group of unhappy customers would have more impact than just 1!!
 
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Re: t4t skills

I noticed right away in the text, you should've read the whole thing before signing anything.
 
Re: t4t skills

I had to wait too, although i was sure it was only £1000, have heard of people going on 3rd and 4th week without having to have paid a set amount.
Looking forward to my second week, really enjoyed my first week. 😀
The centres are in Featherstone and Southampton only, but they do give you up to 30 quid per day for digs, after you send them the receipts.
 
Re: train4 trade skills new starter

OK. Getting on with it now, turns out seeing has I have already sat and passed the City & Guilds 6022 and 6032 with Plumbing Skills I don't have to retake them with Train4Trades after all. Come on, who lied? 🙄

All of Train4TradeSkills Domestic Plumbing & Heating, Section 1 Part A, modules 1-4 complete.

TMA 1 (Plumbing Induction) to 3 (Common Plumbing Processes)marked and passed (had to resubmit TMA2 (Health and Safety) but all now 100%) TMA 4 (Key Plumbing Principles) results pending.

Received online training codes after TMA2 and TMA3, did the Induction, took the Health & Safety test and passed all sections.
Section 2- PPE
Section 3- Safety signs
Section 5- Hazardous substances
Section 6- Working at heights
Section 7- Basic First-aid.

Scenario 2 Correctly identified the video sequences that represented both safe and unsafe situations. (What on earth was she thinking? carrying that heavy gas bottle in one hand by herself and holding the fire door open with a fire extinguisher......... Jeeeez!) 🙂

Passed Online module 3.
Section 2-Jointing Methods,
Section 3-Materials & Tools,
Section 4-The Soldering Process.
Questions 1-15 all answered correctly.

Scenario 3 Interactive Soldering - Took a couple attempts to get use to the online system timings for applying solder and then waiting enough time to remove excess solder with the wet rag but passed all parts:
Flux Application 1-4,
Part Assembly 5,
Applying Heat 6-7,
Applying Solder 8 -9.

Passed Online module 4.
Section 2- Bending - The Basics,
Section 3- 90 Degree Bends,
Section 4- Offset Bends,
Section 5- Kickover Bends,
Section 6- Passover Bends.
Questions 1-15 all answered correctly.

Scenario 4 Interactive Pipe Bending - Correctly identified steps 1-8 for bending copper tube, arranged video sequence in correct order.

Interactive 3D Simulation cd. Scenario 1 :-
i. Correctly identified the cause of the water leak from the CWSC overflow pipe and repaired the Ball valve.
ii. Completed full system check of cold water supply
iii. Identified faulty Stopcock and replaced it.
iv. entered completion code online and received activation code for senario 2.

Studying R D Treloar Plumbing and JTL Plumbing Text books, waiting for the results of TMA4 and the arrival of the next set of modules.
 
Re: tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

i joined the course in febuary of this year after a pushy salesman visited me,
after reading views from others i have now decided dont want to do the course, i have never started never even opened a book,
after being refused my money back even after finding a fault with the contract i am now appealing to anyone who has actually managed to cancel to tell me how they did it!
failing that i would like anyone in the same boat as me to come forth!! as being advised by a lawyer a group of unhappy customers would have more impact than just 1!!


Hi Kathryn

I got out the contract- did you receive the 2nd copy?

If not then contact the ombudsman 🙂
 
Re: tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

Training is a difficult one.

I took a lad on out of grimsby college, distinctions in everything, distinction in his practical. Great thought me!!!!

Not. Day one, gave him a bucket of scrap to sort out, and he couldnt adjust grips, then held the grips and spanner the wrong way around.....

I saw all his college paperwork too.
 
Re: train4 trade skills new starter

TMA 4 (Key Plumbing Principles) now marked and passed 100%

Train4TradeSkills Domestic Plumbing & Heating, Section 1 Part b
Modules 5, 6 and 7 have now arrived along with a new TMA cd.

Module 5 - Cold Water Systems.
Module 6 - Domestic Hot Water Systems.
Module 7 - Cold & Hot Water Systems and Components.

Can't wait to get stuck in
 
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Re: train4 trade skills new starter

Module 5 - Cold Water Systems completed.
TMA 5 submitted last week and returned marked today with new access code for the next assignment -
Module 6 - Domestic Hot Water Systems.

Downloaded Domestic Heating revision software from learnatrade.co.uk at the weekend, already had the Plumbing Revision software from last year.
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

HI all

im in the same boat as you same people same sales pitch and same amount for the course.

iv done a little training but after time it becomes more fustratung than its worth.

i believe you have several modules to complete at the end of each section, i did these but after getting the awnsers back i noticed that information in the actual book was incorrect and at times conflicted with what it had said at the begining of a chapter, i tried to speak to the tutors but no luck i got a e-mail reply saying some of the information in the book was incorrect at time of priniting and new info was on the web site. (pay £110 a month for wrong information)
long story short i had a look at the T&C's of the credit agreement and it states if they default on service or in goods they provied we are able to cancel the credit agreement and claim our money back as well as sue T4T's

as we will be dealing with the credit company and not the training company (two diffrent companys) this is the only way i feel we can get out of this. let me know what you think. ( i joined t4t sep last year )
 
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Re: train 4 trade skills scam

a lot of plumbing companies ar going out of business at the moment,there is no shortage of fully trained and experienced plumbers ,but there is a glut of half trained plumbers all certificates and no experience.those companies who are takeing on plumbers can pick and chose who they employ.most look for at least four years post training experience.this is because it is so cut throat now they can not afford to take on people whom they will have to continue to train,they need people who can do the job fully ,and are not constantly needing advice on how to do the job.some of the training companies are now also going out of buisiness.i would like to know how many of the plumbers trained by these companies actualy find work after training.good training is worth every penny you spend on it, but when you see the claims of these companies 100% pass rate gaureteed you have to wonder how this is acheived,and at what cost to standerds.you can not train a plumber in 2/6/12/25 weeks ,plumbing companies know this that is why they look for post training experience.
 
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Re: train 4 trade skills scam

funny you mention that i was offered a 100% garuntee but not that ill pass first time just that i could keep retaking the exams until i do pass.

i havnt carried it on at the moment as im sure a lot of people have also lost intrest and confidence in the course.

when i signed up the person also claimed the training was backed buy the goverment and it was the goverment that was pushing the training of plumbers because of the forseen shortage that may occur in the future.
if the claims they make are true surley the goverment should bail us out of this mess and if the claims are false then the training companys have faulted in what we have signed up for ? (would this allow us to get out the contract with the credit company)

to answer the question above the training companys dont encourage you to join a company after the course they tend to stear you in the other direction and blind you by the prospect of makeing 40 to 50k a year by opening your own company. (self employed)

so at the end of the day if you fail to make money they would simply say you arnt working hard enough, i think this whole thing would lead to the increase of rougue traders takeing short cuts to make a better profit.

before anyone signs up to any course T4T's plumbing ask your self a simple question,

have i or my family ever needed to call out a plumber ?
most of you will have the same answer as me and im 26

NO ! so in 26 years i have never needed or my family (Mum and Dad) needed a plumber. (so if i dont know anyone that would need a professional plumber to do work where is all this work coming from ?)
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

i went to see a lawyer the lawyer sent them a letter stating i had been missold the course and that i would be canceling my standing order and that he would defend any warning letters i recieved from the credit company .within 2 weeks my lawyer recieved a letter from t4ts stating the course has now been canceled and no further payments are due .it cost me £92 for the lawyer

i went to see a lawyer the lawyer sent them a letter stating i had been missold the course and that i would be canceling my standing order and that he would defend any warning letters i recieved from the credit company .within 2 weeks my lawyer recieved a letter from t4ts stating the course has now been canceled and no further payments are due .it cost me £92 for the lawyer
 
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Re: train 4 trade skills scam

hi davius74

well done mate, im going to try and do the same thing, if i could pick your brain about how you stated the case could you give me your contact details and ill call you.

how did they miss sell the course ? (wrong information supplied in books, false promise of work after course, was there a training center in your area etc.. )
im not able to use the third reason as there is a training center in my area.

anyinfo would be great.
like you said lawyer might cost £100 but im paying that anyway a month for a course im not using

Hi again

just spoken to a lawyer over the phone, he sugested i should pick up a small claims leaflet from the court and go see citizens advice about canceling the course. oh he said i should call or write to the people i took the credit out with and see if they willing to cancel the payments im makeing. ?

guess i have to jump through all the hoops first, did you have to do all this davius74 ?

will call credit people tomorrow and book apointment with citizens advice to see what happens
 
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Re: train 4 trade skills scam

look at it this way as time goes on we will need more plumbers ,so if you can get good cost efective training it will stand you in good stead in the future,so your best bet is to find local plumber to help and learn from. go to night school ,if your keen enougth you will get there and this way gives you time to learn at a measured pace
 
I have just completed the theory part of this coarse and was contacted about the hands training, which when i signed up was at a training centre in Luton, local to me. Now, after being fobbed off for 10 months that the centre is waiting for certification, I am now being told that training will be in Southampton or Leeds.

t4ts offer an amount to help with expenses, but you have to pay out of your own pocket first and wait for them to process recites.

t4ts small print.......10. Practical training will take place at a venue of our choice.

What this doesn't say is that it may involve overnight stays and costs that may have to be paid out of your own pocket.

What a waste of all my time and money.
 
Malhi, after speaking and working to several tradespeople in the field, I reckon that if it's something you want to persue it's definitly worth going back to college. There aren't as many fees and most employer's see courses like t4ts not as valued as college study.
I too thought I couldn't of gone back to college because of work, bills etc, but now I'll be starting an nvq on a low wage as well as working to cover my course fees and bills, should of gone back to college would have been much cheaper!!!!
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

I stumbled across this forum when trying to get information about train4Trades I myself am in the same boat trying to cancel a mis-sold course and not getting very far and getting letters from the finance company.I was told about the shortage of skilled tradesmen and was sucked in. I signed up for an electricians course and all I get is feedback letters about plumbing which I thought was odd then I saw they do computer courses,book keeping the list goes on. has anyone had any luck with cancelling the course?
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

Please be careful when dealing with these companies that offer high paid jobs at the end. I was curious to find out how these companies went about there business and managed to convince people that spending £4,5,6 + thousands would be worth it. So I made a telephone call to a local company showing an interest in a plumbing course and stated that I was unhappy in my job and looking to retrain.

Initially I asked for details of the costs but no-one would tell me this over the phone and said that a course adviser (they don't like the word sales person) would contact me. I was contacted on many occasions until I agreed to an appointment.

When the 'course advisor' called to confirm the appointment he insisted that both myself and my partner were present on the day. Warning bells - finance agreement talks are due I thought.

Just before the meeting I set up a tape recorder and hi the microphone under the sofa. Now how did the meeting go? Hard Sell, Hard Sell, Hard Sell - that's how.

Like I said I stated that I was unhappy in my job working in a factory on shifts and was thinking of retraining. I was told about the plumbing course and the fact that there was a high shortage of plumbers and that I would be earning £80,000 a year. I was told that it would be a City & Guilds Qualification but the sales rep was unable to give me a qualification number - 6217, 6129 ?????

When I said I wasn't sure due to the cost of the course I was met with the following comments:
What are you going to do? Stay in your dead end job for the rest of your life wishing you had made a change?
Doctors finish their training £15,000 in debt and they don't earn what I will earn in my first year.

All in all they are bad news. I spoke with someone last week who was paying £3000 for a training course that resulted in a OCN qual (which OCN are still trying to locate the qualification information for me) and a Water Regs certificate - average cost of this is £165. Be careful of companies who offer interest free credit as they are carrot dangling. Or saying that you have to pass aptitude tests first and then surprise you are lucky and have been accepted and now here is the cost...

Now there may be some decent distance learning courses out there but check, check, check first. Arrange to visit the centre and talk with students on a one to one basis. Turn up at the centre unannounced to look around. Read and re-read the contract. Check the qualifications exist with the awarding body - eg, you can view all C&G quals on their website.

Good Luck to everyone.

Don't let me put you off - A good friend of mine was unhappy working shifts at a local factory and he has retrained and is now gas safe registered - He went to college in the evening for two years and gained work experience on a weekend but the time did go quickly looking back and it is worth it because he is now very happy in his new work. And that is coming from me and I own a training centre - but I do not state that you will be a qualified trades person - see my FAQ's, but will have basic skills from which to develop and progress from.
 
Re: train4 trade skills new starter

Module 6 Domestic Hot Water Systems
TMA 6
Question 04: Where should a service valve be located in order to isolate the hot supply from the hot water storage vessel to the taps?
A Primary return
B Primary flow
C Cold feed
D Open vent

The correct answer is Cold feed (C).

I beg to differ. E Hot water feed is the true answer.

Answers A and B both refer to the primary system, to and from the boiler possibly via a pump and radiators, the dwellings heating system and are totally the wrong answers.



Answer C Cold Feed - The name alone should give you a clue. The vagueness of the question and the choice of answers, it would seem to me are designed to trip you up.

…. in order to isolate the hot supply from the hot water storage vessel to the taps? ‘


Cold feed could refer to the Rising Main in a direct/indirect system or, Cold feed from the CWSC to the cold water supply taps (recommended for properties in areas of low mains pressure). In this case, I read and understand it to mean the supply pipe from the CWSC in the loft to the HWSC usually located in an airing cupboard.

THIS COLD FEED is and should be fitted with a Full Bore/Full Way Gate Valve to isolate the cold feed to the HWSC. Nowhere need a hot tap outlet.

I do not believe this was one of the options in the A to D answers.

Unless you fit a temporary end cap blocking off the expansion pipe as it enters the CWSC, thus making the hot water system air tight, you could not isolate the hot water supply to the taps.

……. You would have to fit service valves to the hot water supply pipe, feeding hot water to each hot water outlet/TAPS in order to isolate it.



Answer D Open vent. The other end of the hot water supply pipe
IS THE EXPANSION/OPEN VENT PIPE. Yet I know never to fit anything that could prevent expansion of hot water in the HWSC, it's DANGEROUS risk of EXPLOSION.

As the hot water supply exits the HWSC from the top via 22mm pipe, closely followed by a 90 degree elbow top prevent one pipe Convection circulation and heat loss, it is then fed to a 22mm Tee via 22mm pipe. The section above the Tee is for expansion and the section below the Tee is the hot water supply feed to the various outlets/taps.

I think an update to Module 6 question 4 is required.
 
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Re: tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

i am currently on the train 4 trade skills course and i have no problems! no interest loan and it costs £35 per week to pay back and they are very helpful! you learn at your own pace and all costs towards practical assessments are covered for example if the training centre is away from your house the travel and accomodation is covered! no probs people just need to realise there are other ways of learning than goin to college and losing money! this way you can still earn and learn! end off !!!!!

Hi truemanufan I am also training with T4TS and im wondering who you spoke to about getting the costs of travel and accomodation covered. I live in Sheffield and will be going to the centre in Featherstone by public transport, I have spoken to ATL but they said that they do not provide any help with funding so im wondering where you heard it and would appreciate it if you could put me in the right direction. Thanks from andy
 
Re: train4 trade skills new starter

Train 4 trade skills are a company i cannot fault.To all you who are thinking of joining the trade,this is no fast track course.its a legit course for those who have mortgages to pay and families to look after.

Once qualified,its the starting point to a sucesfull career.
 
Re: train4 trade skills new starter

Hi, I'm new to these forums, but I had a visit from a person from Train 4 Trade skills to my house today, for what I was told over the phone yesterday, would be a preliminary visit to just be given information about the course and the work involved. Whilst I did get all of this information, I was also heavily pressurised into signing up for the course there and then and paying the £100 admin/registration fee straight away, without being given the chance to think about it for a little while and assess my finances (I am currently unemployed). My mum was also sitting in on this meeting with me, and also felt that this tactic was unacceptable, and when I asked if I could have time to think about whether or not to sign up, I was basically told no and that my place would be offered to someone else. A heated discussion ensued between the T4TS representative and my mum, and I left the room to go into the garden as I felt I was being severely belittled and bullied by the T4TS rep. 5 minutes later my mum came out to me in the garden and told me that the T4TS rep had said that plumbing would be my only opportunity to make a career for myself and if I didn't sign up for it I'd never make anything of my life, amongst various other personal insults, to which I told my mum to get rid of him as I wouldn't stand for anyone being that rude about me, especially to my parents, in my house.

Since this visit, we've done research about the company, and found out that they've been reported to Watchdog for their tactics and about their finance agreements, and there was a government petition set up to put them out of business regarding their bullying tactics. Having seen other forums, it is also clear that despite the promise of a lucrative career and world recognised qualifications once the course has finished, very few plumbing companies will recognise them and generally won't touch anyone who achieved their certification through this company.

So anyone thinking of doing any of their courses, please avoid them.

Beth you probably had a bad sales rep, some scum bag desperate too make commision but they are just that sales reps
Years ago a mate of mine worked for a utilities company, knocking doors trying to get new customers to save money on their fuel bills
By tranferring their bills to direct debit with his company. He spent weeks trying to
learn scripts to be able to do the job properly and legally. Aparently, one of the guys he worked got sacked for using his own illegal script.
The dirty bleeder use to knock on the door, tell the owners he was there to read the meter so he could get inside the house, fill out the paper work
and con people into supplying their bank details and signing them over . He lied to obtain money via procuneary messures which is a criminal offence, his actions
didn't do my mate any favours either as he said people started to distrust knocking doors providing legal info and he ended up leaving that job when he stopped making good money.

T4TS provide quality course work to follow and as far as I know provide the only 3D interactive training scenario discs to help
with applying the knowledge you learn in a safe environment.

ATL that do the training are legit. They are accredited with all the relevant organisation, City &Guilds, CORGI, Gas Safe,
WRAS, Bpec, CITB, and regularly train gas and heating engineers, plumbers and electricians. They run full time course,part time courses (day release) and in partnership with T4TS BLENDED LEARNING home study course.
I even found out resently that the are also working with the Princes Trust providing training for kids that didn't do too well at school.

My advice report the rep, he probably came a long way to visit you and didn't want to lose a commision so they resorted to ****ty tactics.
The course is a lot of money your gonna need to be working to do it but it is a genuine blended learning course and not a FAST TRACK course to be avoided
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

im having all the same problems that have been mentioned here but with the skills centre, or aspire training solutions or ATL (the company gets a bad name and then carries on with another one ive heard) has anybody had similar experiences with the skills centre? the con is the same. ive been disputing it to both the skills centre and the finance company (barclays partner finance) and none of them seem willing to help me. so ive cancelled my direct debit and basically told them to do their worst. any information would be a great help though.. thanks
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

Please keep feedback constructive.
 
Re: train4 trade skills new starter

Originally Posted by Beth

Hi, I'm new to these forums,...............

HOW AND WHY DID YOU FIND THIS PARTICULAR FORUM?
IS THIS A GENUINE ENTRY AND A TRUE ACCOUNT OF EVENTS OR ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO PUT THE FRIGHTENER ON T4TS + Apprenticeship Training Limited STUDENTS, FOR YOUR OWN PERVERSE REASONS? (rival course student, collage apprentice, old school plumbing & heating engineer)

........I was also heavily pressurised into signing up for the course there and then and paying the £100 admin/registration fee straight away, without being given the chance to think about it for a little while and assess my finances (I am currently unemployed).

THAT £100 ADMIN FEE WAS PROBABLY THE REPS COMMISION. SO DID YOU PAY IT OR NOT? IT'S UNCLEAR.

.........I was basically told no and that my place would be offered to someone else.

VERY POOR SALES TACTIC I AGGREE AND I BELIEVE A TOTALLY FALSE STATEMENT.
AS FAR AS I AM AWARE, THERE ARE NO LIMITS TO THE NUMBER OF COURSE PLACES; WHAT IS IT, STANDING ROOM ONLY FOR PLUMBING STUDENTS IN THE UK?

.......5 minutes later my mum came out to me in the garden and told me that the T4TS rep had said that plumbing would be my only opportunity to make a career for myself and if I didn't sign up for it I'd never make anything of my life, amongst various other personal insults,

HOW OLD ARE YOU?

YOU DON'T SAY WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE BETWEEN THE AGES OR 16 TO 24, IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD STILL MAKE A CAREER FOR YOURSELF BY STUDYING PLUMBING AT YOUR LOCAL COLLAGE. YOUR GONNA NEED ENOUGH GCSE's TO EVEN GET ON THE COURSE IN THE FIRST PLACE THOUGH, AND BESIDES THE ONE DAY A WEEK TRAINING YOU WILL GET (during term times, closed for half terms, summer, easter, etc) YOU WILL HAVE TO FIND A LOW PAID JOB WITH A PLUMBING COMPANY FOR ON THE JOB TRAINING, IF THEY ARE TAKING ANY APPRENTICES ON.

Since this visit, we've done research about the company, and found out that they've been reported to Watchdog for their tactics and about their finance agreements, and there was a government petition set up to put them out of business regarding their bullying tactics.

CAN I SEE THE RESULTS OF YOUR RESEARCH?

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS INFO FROM, ON HERE FROM ANY NUMBER OF THE OTHER SCARE MONGERS? PEOPLE LIE YOU KNOW.

I THINK YOU WILL FIND IT WAS SKILLSTRAIN SELLING OUT OF DATE I.T. COURSES THAT WAS BEEING INVESTIGATED BY WATCHDOG.

I SAW THE REPORT ABOUT Mr. Jan Telensky THE CZECH FOUNDER OF THE HOME STUDY COURSES IN MICROSOFT OFFICE, WEB MASTERS ETC. HOW HE WENT FROM SLEEP ON THE STREETS, TO BEING PHOTOGRAPHED OUTSIDE NUMBER 10 DOWNING STREET SHAKING HANDS WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, TO FLOGGING DODGY HOME STUDY I.T. COURSE, THAT CLAIMED TO BE ACCREDITED BY CISCO SYSTEM AND MICROSOFT AND TURNED OUT TO BE OUT OF DATE.

[DLMURL="http://www.1888pressrelease.com/skillstrain-boss-joins-british-pm-in-honouring-kids-pr-11k274olk.html"]SkillsTrain Boss Joins British Pm In Honouring Kids by Skillstrain/mary Stuart-miller[/DLMURL]
 
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Re: train4 trade skills new starter

Originally Posted by Beth

Hi, I'm new to these forums,...............

HOW AND WHY DID YOU FIND THIS PARTICULAR FORUM?
IS THIS A GENUINE ENTRY AND A TRUE ACCOUNT OF EVENTS OR ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO PUT THE FRIGHTENER ON T4TS + Apprenticeship Training Limited STUDENTS, FOR YOUR OWN PERVERSE REASONS? (rival course student, collage apprentice, old school plumbing & heating engineer)

........I was also heavily pressurised into signing up for the course there and then and paying the £100 admin/registration fee straight away, without being given the chance to think about it for a little while and assess my finances (I am currently unemployed).

THAT £100 ADMIN FEE WAS PROBABLY THE REPS COMMISION. SO DID YOU PAY IT OR NOT? IT'S UNCLEAR.

.........I was basically told no and that my place would be offered to someone else.

VERY POOR SALES TACTIC I AGGREE AND I BELIEVE A TOTALLY FALSE STATEMENT.
AS FAR AS I AM AWARE, THERE ARE NO LIMITS TO THE NUMBER OF COURSE PLACES; WHAT IS IT, STANDING ROOM ONLY FOR PLUMBING STUDENTS IN THE UK?

.......5 minutes later my mum came out to me in the garden and told me that the T4TS rep had said that plumbing would be my only opportunity to make a career for myself and if I didn't sign up for it I'd never make anything of my life, amongst various other personal insults,

HOW OLD ARE YOU?

YOU DON'T SAY WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE BETWEEN THE AGES OR 16 TO 24, IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD STILL MAKE A CAREER FOR YOURSELF BY STUDYING PLUMBING AT YOUR LOCAL COLLAGE. YOUR GONNA NEED ENOUGH GCSE's TO EVEN GET ON THE COURSE IN THE FIRST PLACE THOUGH, AND BESIDES THE ONE DAY A WEEK TRAINING YOU WILL GET (during term times, closed for half terms, summer, easter, etc) YOU WILL HAVE TO FIND A LOW PAID JOB WITH A PLUMBING COMPANY FOR ON THE JOB TRAINING, IF THEY ARE TAKING ANY APPRENTICES ON.

Since this visit, we've done research about the company, and found out that they've been reported to Watchdog for their tactics and about their finance agreements, and there was a government petition set up to put them out of business regarding their bullying tactics.

CAN I SEE THE RESULTS OF YOUR RESEARCH?

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS INFO FROM, ON HERE FROM ANY NUMBER OF THE OTHER SCARE MONGERS? PEOPLE LIE YOU KNOW.

I THINK YOU WILL FIND IT WAS SKILLSTRAIN SELLING OUT OF DATE I.T. COURSES THAT WAS BEEING INVESTIGATED BY WATCHDOG.

I SAW THE REPORT ABOUT Mr. Jan Telensky THE CZECH FOUNDER OF THE HOME STUDY COURSES IN MICROSOFT OFFICE, WEB MASTERS ETC. HOW HE WENT FROM SLEEP ON THE STREETS, TO BEING PHOTOGRAPHED OUTSIDE NUMBER 10 DOWNING STREET SHAKING HANDS WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, TO FLOGGING DODGY HOME STUDY I.T. COURSE, THAT CLAIMED TO BE ACCREDITED BY CISCO SYSTEM AND MICROSOFT AND TURNED OUT TO BE OUT OF DATE.

[DLMURL="http://www.1888pressrelease.com/skillstrain-boss-joins-british-pm-in-honouring-kids-pr-11k274olk.html"]SkillsTrain Boss Joins British Pm In Honouring Kids by Skillstrain/mary Stuart-miller[/DLMURL]


to answer your questions:

I found this forum on google, it came up in a search about T4TS. this is a genuine entry, i have nothing to gain from "trying to put the frightener" on T4TS or anyone connected to it, I just don't want other people to experience the same bullying and rudeness from them as i did.

i didn't pay the £100 fee no, i refused to. i never sign for, or pay for anything without reading into the terms and conditions first, or being given a chance to weigh up my options and think about things, an option which T4TS didn't seem to like very much.

I'm nearly 26, and am exploring other avenues into becoming a plumber, but T4TS and other courses like it are being given a very wide berth from now on.

If you google Train 4 Trade Skills and search the results you will see everything I found, some of the results of my search can even be found on this forum. I am aware that people lie on the internet, however going on my personal experience of the company, it doesn't entirely surprise me that other people have also experienced problems and bullying tactics from this company. there is a difference between "Hard Sell" tactics, and bullying and downright rudeness, which is what I experienced.
 
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Re: train 4 trade skills scam

I dont know what to say ?

i recentley put a post up asking people to coment on the plumbing trade,
if we as a colective can disprove the statments the training companys make we can then get out of our contracts and cancel our courses, this would mean not having to pay the monthly £110 but it dosnt mean we can get our money back which we have paid already.

so the things we have to prove are

  • 30 000 to 70 000 job prospects
  • promise of plumbing trade growth
  • certificates which are recognised by employers or the trade
i think you guys get the picture, most of these points iv found out above but i still cant disprove that the trade is shrinking instead of growing.
my post has had about 120 views and only 6 replys looks like the plumbing comunity dosnt want to tell us exactly what happening.

have a look at the thread and write a coment and if you know of people that have finished courses and cant get work get them to write a coment and what their experiance has been like while doing the course and if they got work after the course.

we going to need a lot of people and a lot of replys before we can take this further and win our money back and the only way to do it is to stick together.

this is the thread.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/5792-plumbing-trade-slowing-down-growing.html

let me know what you think
 
T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Hi everyone,
My name is Peter, I was stuck in a dull 9-5 job with no career prospects when I recieved a phone call in regards to T4TS training. Literally after showing an interest a salesman called the next day!
He made the training programme sound so brilliant, so I signed up...

Now, after completing the training, set to commence my first practical training, I recieve a letter from T4TS stating that I cannot start my training till I have paid £1000 off the course... this will not be for another 5 months, considering the saleman said that I could be earning a plumbers wage within 10 months I am obviously somewhat dis-heartened.

Then I started to think of all the false information I was fed just so as he could recieve his commission, I understand everyone has to earn a wage but I have been ripped off I think...

How can I break free from this company and the £3500 loan contract tied within it???

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

i am afraid you are not the first and think you will find this is a very airtight contract
as the loan i believe is not actually with them so unless you have access to a free legal advisor you are between a rock and a hard place
sorry cant offer you any more than that
 
Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

welcome to the forum

its a fact to what newbie says.

youve been caught in the ofside trap of these salesmen.

they are well versed and you could waste your time trying to get out of it.
my b-in law signed with them and managed to get out of the contract, but he did so by declaring bancrupcy?.

the best thing to do is to follow it through all the way, at least you will get what you pay for as it is not a bad centre to train at.

curiocity, what did the rep tell you is a plumbers wage?.
 
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Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Im enjoying it so far, but im sticking through until the end, it'll take a few years to get through by most people, but training at centre is quality.
 
Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

im doing the t4ts at the moment,getting time to do the practicals is my problem.Been on the course for a year but only managed the first two weeks at featherstone..Will be april before i can do the next fortnight.looking forward to it,heating and part p electrical..Got my water regs card, but it doesnt seem much for one years study..but at least i have a job and can complete the course no matter how long it lasts...
 
Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

hi all, my other half signed up for t4ts in oct 08.
I'm a bit concered that we are paying £5770 for a plumbing course (£135 per month over 42mnths) and others have said they are paying in the region of £3000-£4000.
are there different types of plumbing course?
Anyway after paying for a year we stopped our direct debt yesterday as we also feel we were pushed into this course. the course advisor (salesman) turned up we were just expecting a bit of advise but we were not in anyway prepared for the hard sales pitch we got.
We are a young family with two small children we dont have alot of money.
This salesman started saying how our lives would be like this forever and this was our final chance to do something to make life easier. HE ASKED US TO CONVINCE HIM WE WERE SUITABLE FOR OUR PLACE ON THE Course, and that Places were limited and if we didnt take this place he would offer it to someone else. It felt like he was not going to leave unless we signed up.
Anyway we believed him like you do in the moment and also for the next few weeks as he got us hyped up for it.
A year on and the course is not anything like he promised. All the things others have said about. Books being wrong, training centres to far away.
needless to say we never heard from him or t4ts again.

I contacted a soliciter who advised us to contact the office of fair trading as they do take an interest in complaints about distance learning.
He also said to join forces with others who feel the same and involvment from oft may help in negotiations to try and end the contract.
also watchdog has featured t4ts for similar reasons.

so anyone who wants to join forces and send letters or emails of complaint to oft about how they have been mislead or pressured into these courses this would be a great help to me and each of us who feel the same. thanks
 
Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

HE ASKED US TO CONVINCE HIM WE WERE SUITABLE FOR OUR PLACE ON THE Course, and that Places were limited and if we didnt take this place he would offer it to someone else. It felt like he was not going to leave unless we signed up.

Sounds typical, I had the exact same when i enquired about a comperteach couse, All he wanted was his commision. He insisted we paid £300 there and then and was even demanding he drove us to a cash machine. he said we dont take everyone on and made it feel like an interview. Reverse phsycology i think. Anyway i told him straight not a chance!!

Im currently at college now doing plumbing and heating 6129 city and guilds , It cost me £700 .

I could of got it for £135 if i had no other qualifications under the goverments new train to gain. Because i already had an nvq i had to pay the full rate.

I was on the college waiting list for 3 and a half years though.Im still on another waiting list.

The fact of the matter is plumbing is nothing like what we all expect when we first get involved from what i have now learnt.

Its a hard trade to get into. You will never walk into work after completeing your course and you will be lucky to earn £65,000 after the first 4 years let alone the first year.
 
Re: train 4 trade skills scam

I dont know what to say ?

i recentley put a post up asking people to coment on the plumbing trade,
if we as a colective can disprove the statments the training companys make we can then get out of our contracts and cancel our courses, this would mean not having to pay the monthly £110 but it dosnt mean we can get our money back which we have paid already.

so the things we have to prove are

  • 30 000 to 70 000 job prospects
  • promise of plumbing trade growth
  • certificates which are recognised by employers or the trade
i think you guys get the picture, most of these points iv found out above but i still cant disprove that the trade is shrinking instead of growing.
my post has had about 120 views and only 6 replys looks like the plumbing comunity dosnt want to tell us exactly what happening.

have a look at the thread and write a coment and if you know of people that have finished courses and cant get work get them to write a coment and what their experiance has been like while doing the course and if they got work after the course.

we going to need a lot of people and a lot of replys before we can take this further and win our money back and the only way to do it is to stick together.

this is the thread.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/5792-plumbing-trade-slowing-down-growing.html

let me know what you think



No thanks, I'm more than happy to complete the the course I am paying for. Otherwise what would be the point?
Would you buy a new car and leave it on your drive way, never driving it because someone told you it was a ****e model?
Would you go for a meal at that new asian place, order your meal then leave when it arrives, having paid for it on the way out without touching it because you were affraid it may include dog, snake, Rat or something else you wouldn't want to try?
Would you buy a new carpet then leave it rolled up on the stairs for two years because you can't be ar*ed to fit the underlay and gripper?

ATL training is the dogs watsits and the course work sent by T4TS is up to date and the same as that for part time, full time, college , apprentice and day release.
C&G 6129 Tech Cert in Plumbing level 2 and level 3 NVQ level 2 and level 3. Unvented hot water Cert Bpec WRAS water regulations and a CSCS card. Now if after all that you still can't find a plumbing firm to employ you go self employed and get some experience.
 
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Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Its a hard trade to get into. You will never walk into work after completeing your course and you will be lucky to earn £65,000 after the first 4 years let alone the first year.

That's ok, you won't have to register for VAT then.
 
hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...
 
I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.
 
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hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...
so whats the problem?.
is it not for you, or are you struggling to get the grasp of things?.
i have not got anything to do with these companies, but i do know that they can be done in 6 months whilst in a job.
i suppose they told you you will earn £70,0000 a year too, delivered by 50 virgins on your birthday each year, like all sales men from all courses do?.
truth is after one year on the course, your cooling of period has well expired me thinks.
all you have done is give them a get out of 'training you' clause, by telling them to stuff it whilst they keep all the money that you have paid. yes, they allready have it, as it is the bank you now owe. and by people i know who have tried this approch, well, they are still paying monthly.
my advice is to stick at it, hit it hard and get it done. either way to do or not to do, at the end of the day it was your choice.

I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.
don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.
 
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then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.
 
don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.

The main problem was the salesman lying, saying I could do training in Bristol, when in fact their training centres are as far away as Leeds. If I knew that I would not have signed. I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.

then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.

Thanks RedSaw34, good advice, hopefully I've learnt my lesson now and will find a more suitable course.

Sorry, messed up my edit, this post was originally before previous post.


 
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hrere is no shortage of plumbers in england,there is a glut of half to poorly trained want to be plumbers,this not a poor reflection of these people, it is proof that the people who run the plumbing industry just do not care,no matter what you belive you can not be a " master plumber" in 12 weeks as advertised,the plumbing industry great days are over,we are inundated with train fast and give us your money companies.web sites to get you work ,all they do is drive down your price,they all say they only pass 3 numbers on to the custermer butyou will never know if they passed on 100 numbers,and most do.dont look to the goverment to help,there to busy stealing off of us to care,most of the qualifications c@g bpec etc are now not worth the paper they are printed on
 
I think the message that there is no shortage of plumbers, the rates are not that high, the traning is slow and expensive, its a hard trade to learn etc etc is slowly getting out there.
Some people set their heart on it and after knowing all the draw backs still want to spend alot of money to train then good luck too them, i dont mind someone taking their time, paying their money, using a private prvider etc if thats what they want, good luck to them.
Thing is, there are people who dont understand all the above and sign up for a course that doesnt offer them what they need and its too late when they realise.
Who do we blame? the providers for trying to make money, the salesmen for trying to earn a living, the courses that are designed to enable candidates to train without an apprenticeship, the sector skillss council and C&G's for signing up 1,000s when they know they wont get jobs?
IMO- the message above needs to get out, i have NO problem with anyone learning if they know the facts, the problem is the facts ae not out there and they should be. I probably blame 'the man in the pub' who says 'get a job as a plumber and you will make a fortune', people sign up without investigating the situation and find out too late. Until the message gets to the know it all in the pub that plumbers dont make 1,000s or offer a job for life the situation wil continue.
I know a young man who was told by friends and family 'get on a plumbing course and you will NEVER be out of work' After 3 years of college and over 150 applications at local plumbing companies he has never had even 1 day of plumbing work. he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
Did everyone know that the TC's are going and soon there will be no plumb qual without a job? like it used to be? when we trained a few groups of aprentices at a time there were enough plumbers to go round, only because in the 80s it took a dive we ended up in this position, now we have overtrained, boom and bust, WILL WE EVER LEARN??????
Sorry iv mde several different points there
 
[/QUOTE] he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.
 
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he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.[/QUOTE]


How do you know they will consider a 6129 as a level2 in plumbing? The 6129 is only considered by the sector skills council for building services as a part qualification. to say its a L2 is misleading many companies who dont realise its not the full qual such as the NVQ 6089 and only find out the short comings of the candidate when its to late. As such, now many companies have realised and dont even consider the 6129 anymore. These may accept it or they may not, probably comes down to how much expereince the candidate has got when applying. if 50 apply and the interviewer knows what quals are what a new entrant with only a 6129 will be at the bottom of the pile. I have spoke to so many who have a 6129 and NEVER EVER worked in plumbing because they cannot get a job. there will always be exceptions.
Because of the problems i have written, the new quals have dropped all tech certs(6129)s nd all that wlll be available will be full NVQs although they will becalled diplomas
 
Well im not impressed with Train4 Trade

I completed Module 13 in late September and Id not heard anything by early January so I phoned them up to find out what was happening.

The woman on the phone said 'our system hasnt triggered so thats why you havent been put through to Practical Training' This is the third time that the 'not been triggered' escuse has been used. (First and Second were the next set of modules books)

Anyway to cut a long story short, ive now been told that the earliest Practical Training I can attend is in...May! Thats 8 months since I submitted Module 13. So basically im paying for 8 months of course that i cant progress any further on.

I think thats very unfair that their system hasnt 'triggered' but im still expected to carry on as normal.

Well, there will be a letter of complaint going to them in the next few days.

Just to add and if anyone knows, is there a Training Centre in Wakefield? - I was told there was and now im doubting that info.
 
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The training centre's are in Southampton and Leeds mate, not been to Leeds but i can say Southampton is excellent, the only problem is the travel !!!!!!
 
yeah the Leeds one is in Wakefield, done my first 2 weeks there, cant fault the training, surprised by how much stuff we got through, looking forward to my next 2 weeks.
I had to travel from Glasgow but got travel and accomodation money back.
 
From Learnatrade.co.uk

Employment opportunities in the construction and building industry



Question.
What qualification do you need to work as a plumber in the UK?

Answer.
None!

If you want to be a plumber, get yourself a van, a bag of tools, contact your local tax office and register as a self employed person, (click the link for more information) take out a Public liability insurance policy, and you're a plumber.
The trouble is, there are a lot of cowboys out there who have done exactly that!
But you're not a cowboy, becase you've had training!

So, if you want to get plumbing work.... and assuming you have the basic practical skills after completing a year at college, there are two ways of going about it.
First way is to be an employee working for somebody. Go to the job centre - buy the local paper every day and look for plumbing jobs - ring around places looking for maintenence plumbers such as hospitals, local council, that kind of thing. DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE A TRAINEE!! There are so many crap plumbers out there that with your training, you are an expert!!
September to May is the best time to get work in the plumbing industry.
Everything dies in the summer time - customers on holiday - nothing breaking down - it's a famine out there!! But when October comes, and the cold weather kicks in.... It's showtime!! This is especially so for the next section of this information.
The second approach is to do those things I've mentioned above about becoming a self employed plumber, then open up the yellow pages to 'Plumbers' - phone up the companies advertising there, tell them you're a plumber, and I can almost guarantee that you will soon get work - especially if you live in or around London. You will need a van of your own to do this kind of work. Plus, of course, you can do it at times to suit yourself. Just do weekends and evenings until you get the confidence to go for it full time.
That's the kind of work I did for years, and I loved every minute of it!
It's all working self employed. They get the work, which is all emergency call out repair work, you go and do it, and you split the labour charges 50/50. You might think that's a bit of a bummer if you're doing all the work while they sit in the office. But it's worth it. They will be paying a fortune in advertising, answering the telephones, dealing with the crap the customers throw up at them, and doing all the admin stuff.
Be warned though, like I said a little earlier, it's always quiet on the repair work in the summer months. Lots of sitting about in your van waiting for things to happen. And it's not a nine to five job either.. You may get called out at all hours of the day or night to deal with emergencies. The thing is with this kind of work, is that you're on your own. It's all down to you to carry out the repair with no back up! But.. and I don't want to sound cynical here. If you screw up, look upon it as good experience and learn from it.
The other good thing about this kind of work is that you can make absolute mega-bucks!

Taking a chance:

One of my students a few years ago, (David, mature student in his 50s) only did nine months of the first year at college and didn't get a qualification at that time.
What he did, was those things I mentioned above re: self employment, but instead of approaching yellow page plumbing companies he put an ad in the local paper.... When he first started I was getting a HELP ME! call off him every couple of days. Once he was up and running, he went back to college and finally did get a qualification. Now he's working his nuts off and employing people!
When you're looking to make such a massive change in your life, sometimes you have to get out there and hustle.
So there you go,​
 
All trades look to secure their respect and history of high skills by ensuring we keep up high standards and therefore the respect of clients and people paying money for the skills. Then a 'teacher' comes on here and advises people to set up as a plumber with little or no training????

'Your not a cowboy, youve been to college for a year' All those who have completed a traditional apprenticeship and/or trained for years gaining full advanced qualifications must feel so foolish🙄

We wonder why the Goverment want to bring in competent person schemes? We wonder why clients complain and plumbers get a bad name?

This is one of the reasons that there wil be NO TECH CERT 6129 NEXT ACADEMIC YEAR - Only full NVQ's (under a new name)
 
Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.
 
Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.

Oh sorry i thought this was your view, didnt pick up on it all being part of a quote. It appears we agree then
 
Would that be fuzzy logic then? 297 Posts and fuzzy has not made any friends yet. 😱 🙂

I think, if you can't get a plumbing firm to take you on, simply because:-

* You didn't go down the tea boy on day release at college route. In spite of the tech cert being the same theory work and portfolio content as required for nvq in both level 2 and 3.

* You funded your own studies instead of someone else getting a government grant
or financial incentive to take years to train you. (Anyone happen to know how long
the British Gas take to train their A level, 5 GCSE students at their own training center???????)

* You obtained your City&Guilds while working for a living, through dedicated home study and an industry recognised train centre, instead of a local college, with it's waiting lists, one day a week attendance, half terms, Summer and Christmas breaks, Easter holidays and all the spotty faced teenagers you can poke a stick at, that have little or no work ethic yet.

.....Then you will have to take your City&Guilds Technical Certificates level 2 and 3 in Plumbing, your portfolio of training, the Bpec WRAS water regulation Certificate, your part P acreditation your CSCS card and start advertising yourself as self employed.

* You should of started working on your own home while studying, moved on through friends and families homes, then the naighbours for extra experience in between the week long residential training session at the training centres.

* Building a website is one of the requirement of the course, I believe it comes in at section 18 but if you know how already do it anyway.

* Print some cards, flyers, put ads in the local shops and free papers, Thompson Local and yell.com.

* Because of the route you took, paying for your course, you must be working somewhere to pay for the monthly direct debits. Buy tools as you go, you will be surprised how quickly the need for a new one comes up.

* Register with the TAX, the WIAPS, IPHE, Building Regs, various competent person schemes and get that Public Liabilities Insurance mentioned by the tutor earlier. You don't want to be sued for accidently setting fire to a property with your blow lamp and end up losing you tools, your business, your house all because you were un-insured.

* Register with as many trade magazines as you can to keep up with all the latest Tech articles on solar or ground source heating and trade offers on bathroom suites, radiators, bathroom, kitchen and cloakroom taps and powerflush systems.

* While cash flow is low, get yourself trade accounts with your local branch of national suppliers; PTS, Plumbase, Plumb Center, Wickes, B&Q, Screwfix, Pulsar direct etc, etc, etc to name but a few. Pick up supplies, fit them, get paid. A month later get an invoice and pay the supplier, simple.

I'm sure, before you know it, because you put your training to good use and did a good job at every place you worked at, your plumbing jobs start coming in thick and fast and you may have to jack in that other job your doing that pays the finance for your course; if not, keep at it and plumb in the evenings and weekend only.

If your young it's an education, if your older it's an experience. Isn't that what everyone keeps telling you, you need to get on in the trade? 🙂
 
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What friends? Would that be electronic ones or real ones you can see?
Errrr, youve lost me now, is this a quote or your thoughts? Bit longwinded, I got bored half way through, well first few lines if im honest. From what i gather your giving advice on how to get work when you train on Tec Certs only? Pity but that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway
 
......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?
 
......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?


Thought it was pretty simple, how about this one.

THERE WILL BE NO TECHNICAL CERTIFICATES FROM JULY 2010, no worky no qualification
 
i will be honest here
i am still doing a course for plumbing nvq 2
that is the least employers are looking for now as i have looked on a lot of sites
6 weeks to learn thejob aint good
i have learnt the theory over 2 years in my own time and passed them
it can be done if u spend time on it and researching anything u are un sure of
the practicals will be quick but as long as u have the theory u should be ok
then go self employed
and as for gas qualifications
seems a mine filed
as i think u need to have so many hours under your belt working ofr a gas registered company
they dont tell u that -
good luck
 
Cheers kwakerdude,

Been plumbing on and off since 1996. My fiancee' at that time, who ran the quality assurance and technical departments of a well known bathrooms and kitchens manufacturing company and I, attended a night school class at the local college to learn how to plumb in a kitchen before renovating and install radiators and pipework for new central heating system in own newly aquired 1930s house. The new boiler was fitted by a CORGI Gas fitter but we fitted the rest, followed by a new bathroom suite a couple months later; staff discount of cause.

As far as the theory goes, been studying City & Guilds 6129 in my own time since 2007, firstly through PlumbingSkills and ATL before the Skills Centre company director stole loans of students cash to fund his gambling habit. Then with Train 4 Trades Skills and ATL once the government, Barclays Partner Finance and T4TS stepped in, took over the blended learning courses in Plumbing and Electrics C&G and NVQ's, so everyone studying with the Cardiff based company could complete their studies and not lose out because of a corrupt <NO SWEARING> in the finance chain.
 
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I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".
 
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I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

I have come across newbies into the trade doing jobs that are beyond them only to qoute that they are learning each time. I wouldnt be impressed if somebody learnt on my job that i was paying for!
I think your advice on the principles is spot on. you need to know why not just how to! That is the difference between a tradesman and a 'mate'.
 
If you come to something new to you and have no experience in it, but have background knowledge, you can get a tape measure, calculator, textbook, pen and paper and work out what's going on, what to use and how to do the task.

You can always tell my work as I use a lot of swept bends, swept tees etc in my larger circuits and avoid restrictions as much as possible. Maybe you think it's a bit OTT but all my visible nut heads and screw slots line up at the same angle. Looks neat for anyone looking. I worked with Navy guys for a while and that is where I picked up that habit as they are very particular about the appearance of finished jobs.
 
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I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

-----------------------------------------

I agree, I'm on one of these courses and there's methods in the coursework and 3D software, but I figured there has to be more than that. I'm thinking if you have pipe and you take the outside measurement but it's 1mm wall you're accounting for water that isn't there, or an immersion heater but how much element is in there or is that all ready accounted for, or am I a bit off track there.

When I go for practical I want to try as many methods in an area as possible e.g. pipe bending, not just what's in the book. I've been working in sheet metal and microns make a lot of difference. The method for bending I cut a tube to length first then bend, I worked out how much I gained before hand, and they came out pretty much the same (not a very accurate bender) and very quickly. I always try and look deeper I would be very interested to hear more.
 
Tells me ur on the team. Only 1 of about a thousand sad stories with such positivity for t4ts Ive come across. Wonder how much ur getting to sing their praises. All proffesionals warn of these expensive waste of time bull**** courses, gets no1 anywhere but in debt. GET A GRIP COZ UR NOT FOOLIN ANY 1 ESP ME!
 
Whether you've got a million bits of paper that say your a genious or not dont mean dic#. All any employer will see is whether you can do the job or not, thats pretty much all they care about. If your face fits, you get along with the rest of the crew/customers then great. People worry too much about 6129 and 5817 or r2 fuc~ing d2!!!! The only bits of paper you should be worried about are gassafe, part -p and un-vented. As for trade skills, for most people there a complete rip off, waste of time. Being self employed is an absolute nightmare, especially while doing it alone, you have to be a tradesman, accountant, mechanic, business manager, lawyer, ad-man and all at the same time. When you get home from work you spend frigging hours doing paperwork, it aint easy. When you go for an interview stop flapping about your 6185 or your c3p0, tell the boss your comming to work for him for a weeks fuc#ing trial, at the end of the week when you've got the job, problem solved!!!!! Works for me.😛
 
i just started the course and feel it has something to offer yes its expensive but hopefully it will be money well spent i know qualifications dont mean a thing without practical experience but you have to start somewhere! i'll keep posting throughout the course with an honest opinion!so wish me luck!!!
 
I started the T4TS Plumbing Course about 2 months ago.. I am finding it very interesting and think that it is a really involved trade to learn.
But i am under no illusions that this will be easy or a quick way into a high paying career reguardless of the sales pitch that was given.
I spoke to a Tutor or a TA this morning they confirmed that i would be doing my Practical @ Luton based on the course that i was doing.
Its going to take time and i will have to give up evenings and weekends if i have to to get the necessary experiance required to competently goto a job on my own and be let loose on someone's home.
Yes its alot of money but think about it in the long run.

What will you achieve by investing money in yourself?

Ive been reading alot of the posts on this forum and i too still have doubts, I am doing this course to try and get me from between a rock and a hard place (a career that seems to be going no where despite been doing it for 7 years). end of the day no one can take the qualifications away from me.

Also do what is right for you! don't sign up if you don't think that you will be able to put in the required time.
 
Hello Karl...Its not all about the time and the effort that you put into these training courses..its all about what you get out of it at the end....be it a tech certification..an OCN ..or a step towards an NVQ.. whatever load of crap you ve been sold....I hope you researched it all before signing up...cos I didn,t and I got stung for £4000...bringing home a 6022 and 6032..which does nt mean anything in the trade....yeah I got my water regs Qualification but it does nt matter with those type of City and Guilds awards.....
 
Sorry to hear that Mark.

TBH i didn't do much research. I had the questions answered that I had over the phone. I asked what i would be doing i.e where and when. what qualifications i would get and how long the average person takes to complete the course.

Im doing the C&G 6129 L2 & L3. Im going to call local plumbing companys looking for someone to take me on to show me how to be a competent reliable plumber. And to see how to properly fault find system problems, rather than text book faults 1 problem 1 solution thats all you need to know.

I will continue to post based on my views and outcomes of this course and how it has or hasn't worked for me and if it works out for me. I have no problem telling anyone thatreads these post if its a scam or not, my opinion so far is not.

Regards
 
Hi Karl

When I signed up for my course I was told and assured that the qualifications that I would recieve would be at NVQ level...They are just credits towards an NVQ....My qualifications are a step below yours..I would nt like to see you ripped off in any way and I hope you are aware of this information below.....

After successful completion of the 6129 students often go on to complete the City & Guilds 6089 NVQ while working as a self-employed plumber or for a plumbing company.

Basically paying a large sum of money for just a step in the right direction..

regards Mark
 
Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)
 
Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)

These course are what they are you will probably get your 6129
But for nvq 2 and 3 you will have to be working as they are mostly site visites to see your work
I don't know how they can get around this
But in a real world like a lot have said on this forum if you have not got the experiance you will not get a job
Plumbing is a hard job you won't learn it all from books you need to be doing it day in day out to learn
£5700 is a lot of money if you can't afford it I don't know where you come from but I'd personally recomend you don't waste your hard earned money
If you realy want to be a plumber go to your local collage see what courses they do try basic plumbing course it you like it carry on and try to get an apprentice with a local firm it won't be easy in today's climate but you can only try
I'd hate to see anyone ripped off but especially a mother
All the best
Gray
 
cancel cancel cancel...phone them and tell them you have changed your mind,write to them and send it recorded delivery,once barclays partner finance pay them 5770 you will never be able to get out of the agreement....you only get a week to cool off so do it now,trust me i have tried everyhing to cancel but i cant get out of it and they WILL let you down big time.....good luck
 
Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)


Hi,

I know how you feel, I have two kids of my own and it was imprative that I made the right choices. I cannot take time off to go to college either and I signed up to this course.

It's not a scam. They really will get you qualified to the right level. I fouind the payments reasonable, I pay £80 a month, and no interest is added.

What people are complaining about mainly is that when you finish, employers may be dubious of your skills because you didn't do it the traditional way.

However! I personally think that if you work hard, learn the trade, practice as much as you can and pass your exams you would be as good as someone who went through an apprenticeship. (Plus I imagine you will be more passionate to succeed).

It's a combination of the lack of work out there and the smeared reputation of many 'fast track' courses out there which give people the willies.

It of course is up to you what you want to do.

I'm nearly ready for week 3 and 4 which is about half way through I guess. I'm really enjoying it. I can't complain: There's lots of competitions on where you can win substantial amounts of money, you get tool-kit vouchers (mine were worth £200 from Rothenberger) the practical training is well structured and intensive, the modules are well written and informative, tutors are available if you have any questions and you get to study at your own pace.

It's up to you what you do with it after you finish, if you are smart and get your name out there effectively, what is stoping you from succeeding?

I have found, after reading a lot of these forums and threads, that most people call 'scam' because they aren't really sure they want to be a plumber and then can't get their money back or because theres loads of time-served plumbers scaring everyone that the certificates aren't worth anything. (experience is most valuable)

I disagree that the certificates aren't worth anything. This course really is hard to get through and the exams are not easy. They make you learn properly. I have completed my water regs, and half of the level 2 cert exams and I really had to know my stuff to pass them. In fact, I almost feel ready to get out there now.
 
Well said Rob. I completed my 6129 last April and I was well impressed with everything from the theory to the practical. Look as it as a sound foundation to furthering your desire.
 
I am glad I found this thread particularly because I first registered to reply to another thread on the forum from someone who says their name is joanna calling t4ts a scam. I have seen lots of similar postings on various boards and forums as the starter to new threads all using similar phrases. Most, I reckon are nothing more than spoof postings from people with an agenda, maybe even a bit of stirring from rival companies. My experiences with this company (got nvq2, into gas on nvq3) have been totally different from the impressions given by these posters. The stuff I read and the claims made are just idiotic. Take a look at some of them and ask yourselves "is that right or might they just be less bright than they thought they were or just looking for an excuse to back out because money got tighter?"
Check them out and make your own mind up on the validity but base it on the facts. The company responds to enquiries so someone must have requested details either from a flyer, tv advert, jobsearch site or jobcentre. I found them on totaljobs. Then they will have had a phone call to check if enquiry genuine and a few questions are asked before deciding if an appointment is needed to give details of course and to check if the person is suitable. At the interview stage I was asked all sorts of questions about my motivations and reasons to want to be a plumber, what i was doing, looking for workwise, what my plans were if i got the course and a good amount of detail to make sure i really wanted to change my direction in life by retraining. Then the guy explained how the studies were done so i could decide if the training methods suited me. I saw a dvd showing me the facilities and the 3d software. Then, when I said it looked right for me he explained prices and explained how the funding worked. I knew how much in total, at zero percent, how much a month and over how long. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. When i agreed to go ahead (two days later after researching) I gave details for a credit search but since i was unemployed i couldnt expect a main bank to help so i was accepted by another provider who still took me on to help me even though my rating was fairly poor. Couldnt have done it otherwise and certainly not in one go. Paid my registration fee of £100 and got my course starter. Havent looked back, good support, easy way to get the same qualifications as college but to nvq3 which they dont do at a normal college. NO CON NO SCAM
 
Did all the parts of 6129 but had to take my time over it because i got a job that made it difficult to get time off. I go to Southampton, so far its taken me just over a year but thats cos i had to take the job and recover some income for the family's sake. Not going to get into a long thread about the company, just so fed up seeing people knock it when it works well for me, and I know most of the whingers are probably just people struggling to do the theory looking for an excuse to get out of the finance. Its hard to do in parts but giving up and blaming or defaming others for their own failure just seems stupid. If it was dodgy why would Barclays be dealing with them? Aren't they ofsted inspected too? The cdf company who did my funding have to be registered with the fsa (I checked their registration) so as far as I am concerned it all seems to be exactly as I was told. The agent I saw told me everything I wanted to know and I even have his contact number and spoke to him twice with questions. Maybe the problem for others is seeing an agent who didnt explain things as well as my bloke did but I am happy with how its going. Everybody thinking of doing the course should maybe ask loads of questions like I did to make sure they understand everything first. Make your own minds up and look into the real reasons behind some of those complaints as most look a bit dubious and planted. That other thread looks that way.

Anyway thats me done, rant over. Whoever you go with good luck.
 
I am also with t4ts and think they have been amazin! No problems like all these old school people on here avin a good old whinge about it! I think I have learnt an awful lot at my own pace and able to learn practically at my own pace to! Doing all of this while holding down a full time job too so put the hours in and it will pay off!
 
Good luck trying to find a job in this climate once you all finish ya 20 day training courses, try explaining to an employer while your better than a bloke who's done a 3 year hands on apprenticeship.
 
Cheers heinz it's hard enough to get on with it without people like u always putting downer on things! We can't all afford to retrain full time!
 
Hey Heinz, is 57 your IQ?

Our training includes a comprehensive section of business training so we dont have to look for a job, or rely on others. The purpose is to get us starting our own business by being self employed. You obviously know nothing about the course or what it involves. Sorry, but your downer attitude is typical, maybe your life is negative but keep it to yourself eh?

To some the pint pot is half full, to some its half empty but negative people like you seem to just want to take away the pot from others.
 
And Mr Neggy Heinz, the course is based over 11 weeks of full on practical after a very comprehensive theory training. WE learn how to avoid making mistakes by learning not just how to do it properly, but also by learning all of the potential mistakes and their consequences so we dont make them in the first place. Your 3 year hands on guys get 3 years of learning from their mistakes in the customers homes with most of the theory being given by the guys they work with, thats not necessarily a high standard of training; thats less than reassuring isnt it. That 3 years is mostly spent as slave labour anyway, doing the grunt work with very little real training except for the college nvq2 day release so its nothing to boast about. Very 1970's "good enough for my father and his father" attitude. New standards and new techniques seem to have left you behind somewhat but nevermind. If you dont properly understand it your opinion is not really worth considering in the greater scheme of things.
 

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