What do they teach at college nowdays?

[Mike Jackson]

I'm reading more and more threads where plumbers and heating engineers have never heard of techniques or never come across certain materials or fittings.

Things I've recently noticed have been :-

Not knowing what silver solder is - we had to silver solder after we had knocked a tee into a length of pipe, does this mean that students are not taught how to knock or pull a tee?

Being unfamiliar with iron pipework - when I was at college we spent ages cutting and threading black iron and if we were lucky we got a go on the power threader. I was working with an ex BG guy at eagaheat on a job and we had to run a gas supply to a new boiler position. The gas run was going to look hideous, when we lifted the floor upstairs there was a nice 3/4 black iron pipe under the floor so I suggested that we cut into it and save ourselves a load of work and make a neater job. He had never worked on black iron and was amazed that I could cut and thread it.

Not knowing how to strip and service a back boiler or older conventional boiler - we had to strip and service several boilers.

Other things that people seem to be lacking knowledge of are

leadwork
lead caulked joints on CI soil stacks
fire fighting equipment
booster sets
Keraflo type float operated valves
secondary hot water circulation systems
wiping a lead joint (I'd probably struggle with this now, not done one for years but I've still got my moleskin and tin of tallow in the garage.)

There's probably more things but it's no wonder that you can do a course in 12 weeks now there can't be much left to teach. The deise of proper apprenticeships doesn't help but if people aren't given a good grounding at college what hope have we got?

I#m sounding like one of those grumpy old men off the telly now.

 

[Guest123]

Agree. Much of what we were taught is now being lost, which is a shame as every plumber at one time or another will come across lead, cast iron and much of the other older materials still in service today. The vast majority of homes in the UK are post ww2 and older, so it's almost criminal that modern materials like plastic etc are only taught now. I knew a lad here, who struggled to comprehend the need for green olives on imperial copper as he was not taught that there was a difference between 22mm and 3/4" pipe.

Still, it's up to us oldies to ensure that the skills of back in the day are passed on to the lads we employ as apprentices.

 

[ecowarm]

It very sad isn't it Mike, but what we learnt is 4-5 yrs is now crammed into weeks, hence the reason our C&G are now worthless in other countries. We were respected as the best tradesmen in the world at one time! Now a joke!

Wiping a joint, I have done it with a peice of cardboard when I couldn't find my moleskin, you never forget because we were taught correctly.

Plumbers jobs advertised for £8- £9 per hour, I never thought we would be classed lower than shop workers, ALDI in Grimsby £9+ to work on the tills.

Grumpy old man 2 (the revenge) coming to a telly near you soon

 

[ecowarm]

And I'm lead burning today, ask today's "plumber" what that is

 

[Guest123]

And I'm lead burning today, ask today's "plumber" what that is

Probably think you're setting fire to lead mate.
We now live in a world of silicone and push fit.

 

[SimonJohns]

Wiped joints are no longer taught because of the outlaw of lead in potable systems

Lead joints on cast are no longer taught because of the advent of plastics and because cast is being ripped out

Booster sets. Keraflows. Tend to be more commercial so is a specialist subject and for that reason is omitted

Lead work is still taught. For your 6129 you have to do flashings. Slate, back gutter and front apron
One has to be bossed and one has to be welded

Steel is taught. You will have to do a frame and also a pair of rads with flow and return in steel

Gas back boilers. They were taught I. College but you could see the other students don't care because it's "all about the combi" now.

Pulled tees are no longer taught because it is not a recognised fitting and for that it can void warranties and insurances on houses.

Students were usually taught how to solder by swaging a pipe and then soldering. But they were all told that it is not an acceptable form of jointing pipe

Silver solder is more of a air con trait now and is taught on the relevant courses.

It's as far as i can see a more of a taster and you need to have the apprenticeship to make you a real plumber. I never learnt anything about commercial in college. I've had to self teach and speak to loads of people

 

[ecowarm]

As of this year lead is not taught, it has gone to the roofers.

Bending and swaging does not cause any problems with the pipe, what a load of crap that is!

Silver soldering, brazing and bronze welding....... remember that one all part of our trade

Also gas welding steel pipe.

 

[mountainman]

Why worry, in 20 years time all us oldies will be either dribbling in nursing homes or in a celestial plumbers merchants bemoaning loss of skills etc.

 

[ecowarm]

I'm sure code 4 is getting heavier! 750 x 6m = 92kgs ooooooooo me back

 

[Guest123]

But the point is SimonJohns, at one time or another we will all come across one of the above and having the knowledge to deal with it is essential.

Lead wiped joints are still used for repairs and it's ludicrous that lead solder is not allowed on a lead wipe. There are still many miles of lead pipe in existence and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Lead run joints in cast iron are still used in Grade A listed buildings. Cast iron is also quieter with water discharge than plastic and much stronger.

 

[SimonJohns]

I don't disagree with you on the content. But through a good apprenticeship the future should be passed these qualifications.

The government needs to provide more incentive to get more apprenticeships. I was asked many years ago to take one with the company. I asked what we would get and it was nothing.

So that's more liability insurance. Longer doing jobs. Greater risk. And the college gets paid for it.
Surely we would give them a better education than any College

 

[WaterTight]

The only one I'd even heard of was lead work. Which I learnt on my course, haven't touched in the 3.5 yrs since and now couldn't work with if you paid me.

THE SYSTEM WORKS

 

[WaterTight]

Well that was an exaggeration for comic effect. I've 'heard' of many of the things listed but wouldn't attempt any of them.

 

[dontknowitall]

Lead work, steel pipes, cutting a thread, etc.

Ain't that what apprenticeships are for?

:wink_smile:

 

[secret squirrel]

I was watching a programme the other day 'outnumbered' excellent programme the little girl in it used a line which is appropriate to this threea.

'stop banging on'

I was taught lead and low carbon steel, barrel I think you old timers call it. I wasn't taught 3/4 pipe needed a different size olive but I know now......

I like working with plastic and I know how to join cast....... I can't even be bothered carrying on here........ squirrel has left the building (for now anyway)

 

[GQuigley67]

fitted loads of threaded pipework(mild steel for commercial heating, marble iron for outside gas runs) loads of cast iron(hospital new builds drainage systems) done lead work at college(hated it i may add) most lead pipework i come across im replacing or finding it under floors and scrapping it. I agree that some of the old skills are gone but because technology has improved same with everything else what about all the beautiful stone work you used to see in buildings most modern houses are not built to last

 

[kirkgas]

mike im timeserved and now teach in colleges and i havent heard of half the things you have listed as they are not part of a plumbers job, they might be part of what you have done over the years and fair play to you, but they dont come from the plumbers remit and never have,
i was never taught about silver soldering, but i did lead, which someone has said is out of the carriculum next year, its still part of the scottish timetable for a minimum of 3 yrs, i did screwed pipe as well, but some of the other things are now gone from the trade due to changes and change of thought about it being suitable and fit for purpose, we still teach the apprentices to solder using socket forming tools for practice, they do MI and cast iron drainage but they use timesaver and plastic connections cause thats what they use at work, as for gas servicing that has never been part of the base course but when they get into 3rd year they either do gas if their firm can give them the work portfolio, or they do unvented and solar if they dont do gas

 

[Mike Jackson]

I did all of that at college. We had to silver solder after we'd knocked a tee into copper pipe, we had to pipe up a fire hose and service a dry riser valve, adjust a keraflo' adjust a booster set. None of it was done in much detail but we were given a grounding in it so if we came across it outside we knew what we were looking at.

I've actually used most of it over the years, the fact that I could work on this sort of thing won us a few contracts. We got the maintenance on a large block of offices because none of the other contractors had anyone who knew how to service the landing valves on the dry riser. I relocated ire hose reels in South East waters offices some years back because none of their direct guys knew how to do it.

There's still a lot of this stuff out there and it's a shame that people aren't being taught how to look after it.