What electric works can plumbers undertake

[midsman]

Hello all

I’m looking for some clarification as to what electric works plumbers / heating engineer can undertake. It seems to be a grey are with part p defined scope etc which I believe has gone? And that part p is just a building Reg and not a qualification. So in light of my confusion some help is wanted.


so what can a plumber / heating engineer do. I mean with no electrical quals or part p.

I don’t just mean that they have the skill to do it but they have the legal right to do it. Aren’t breaking any buildings regs etc

can a gas safe heating engineer wire a new boiler into an existing fused spur even in a kitchen . ?


Can a plumber replace like for like electric shower

can a plumber replace a heating system component such as a zone valve, pump, thermostat - including wiring it into wiring centre

can they fit a new room stat as part of a new boiler

I very much believe in doing things correctly and doing the best I can.

 

[Ric2013]

Would you replace a broken shower pump. I.e plumbing side and also unwire old pump from fcu and wire in the new one to fcu or would you get a spark to connect the 3 wires? The same for a zone valve would you replace one for like and do wiring into wiring centre?

would you replace broken immersion heater in water cylinder and wire that to fcu

it’s the sort of thing that a lot of heating engineers / plumbers do but should they?

it’s such a grey area I’m beginning to wonder if it’s worth the risk. It seems to me these like for like component jobs are a two person job plumber and spark.

I'd do them because it's not notifiable work, being like for like. It would depend on the customer and also if I felt the existing electrical system was up to current standards or whether it was essentially running on grandfather rights.

What I would comment, however, is that, legally, I probably shouldn't because testing with a 1960s AVO8, if at all, is not to standard, but at least I can check the earth is connected. If I had a lot of this work, then I would pay for the training and the calibrated tools, but in the meantime there is, sadly, a limit to how much work I'm able to turn down. What I would say though is that the instances of court cases and prosecution of which I am aware generally invole a far greater level of negligence than mine.

 

[midsman]

Would you replace a broken shower pump. I.e plumbing side and also unwire old pump from fcu and wire in the new one to fcu or would you get a spark to connect the 3 wires? The same for a zone valve would you replace one for like and do wiring into wiring centre?

it’s the sort of thing I know

would you replace broken immersion heater in water cylinder and wire that to fcu

I'd do them because it's not notifiable work, being like for like. It would depend on the customer and also if I felt the existing electrical system was up to current standards or whether it was essentially running on grandfather rights.

What I would comment, however, is that, legally, I probably shouldn't because testing with a 1960s AVO8, if at all, is not to standard, but at least I can check the earth is connected. If I had a lot of this work, then I would pay for the training and the calibrated tools, but in the meantime there is, sadly, a limit to how much work I'm able to turn down. What I would say though is that the instances of court cases and prosecution of which I am aware generally invole a far greater level of negligence than mine.

thank for your reply. It’s more of the insurance issues if the house is damage or customer gets hurt than the prosecution side. Insurance companies will always try not to pay.

 

[Ric2013]

thank for your reply. It’s more of the insurance issues if the house is damage or customer gets hurt than the prosecution side. Insurance companies will always try not to pay.

Agreed. I'd only do it if I were 100% confident in the work. Obviously the customer getting hurt is a big one.

 

[Murdoch]

'All to regulations' includes the fact that the original installer either notified to Building Control and had independent testing carried (in England - think Wales is slightly different) or was a member of a competent person scheme. Not just doing notifiable work well but without being able to leave the relevant certification.

The insurance question is a good point. Which is why I suggested working alongside a friendly electrician. That said, I have replaced a valve actuator by myself. Not notifiable, and I'm not sure how much testing a real electrician would be doing, but possibly I've not tested to the BS. Admittedly, I suppose it's a risk.

I have in the past installed a shower pump in an airing cupboard, agreed to do the plumbing side but not the electrical side, i.e. comission the pump with a plug on the end of the flexible cable, and then remove the plug, leaving the customer to get an electrician in to wire it in to the manufacturer's specifications, as indicated on my invoice. If the customer then ignores my advice and refits a plug, that's up to the customer.

absolutely nothing wrong with plugging the pump in ....

 

[midsman]

absolutely nothing wrong with plugging the pump in ..

Could you wire the pump into fcu for example when replacing a broken pump or should that need an electrician to wire the 3 wires in

the same for the immersion heater and zone valve? - working them into to the fcu and the wiring centre

 

[Harvest Fields]

As a heating engineer. I would expect us all who carry the title to be able to take all wires out of a multiple zone plain 10 way junction box, mix them all up and be able to put every single wire back where they should be and the system to be working exactly as it was when you arrived. If you can do that then, a live, neutral and earth into a fused switch should be a doddle.

 

[midsman]

As a heating engineer. I would expect us all who carry the title to be able to take all wires out of a multiple zone plain 10 way junction box, mix them all up and be able to put every single wire back where they should be and the system to be working exactly as it was when you arrived. If you can do that then, a live, neutral and earth into a fused switch should be a doddle.

Couldn’t agree more. But is it legal to do. Will insurance cover it if it goes wrong. And what qualifications / training does one need to satisfy both those points.

 

[Ric2013]

absolutely nothing wrong with plugging the pump in ..

Except that by law all electrical goods that MAY be plugged in MUST come with a plug fitted. So Stuart Turner, who supplied the pump without a plug had to maintain the fiction that it MUST be wired back to an FCU. It's only wrong, hence, in that it is not in accordance with MI's.

I suppose that there is a risk of the plug terminals oxidising as they are not subject the abrasion of being pulled in and out occasionally. Realistically, though, in my own house I'd be perfectly happy with a plug and socket connection.

 

[Ben-gee]

C’mon guys let’s get real, we can’t let it happen that you have to get three qualified men in when you want to change a light bulb.

The ladder man, unscrewer/screwer and the health and safety officer - that might be four actually...

 

[Ric2013]

'Twas on a Monday morning the gas man came to call...

Ben-Gee. We all agree. But if the question is what legally we can do, then we'll quote the nth degree. Perhaps we need a thread called 'what would you realistically be prepared to do illegally'? 😉

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOA_SUKEZRE

 

[Harvest Fields]

'Twas on a Monday morning the gas man came to call...

Ben-Gee. We all agree. But if the question is what legally we can do, then we'll quote the nth degree. Perhaps we need a thread called 'what would you realistically be prepared to do illegally'? 😉

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOA_SUKEZRE

I have not seen that before. Me likes that one.