what is it with some sparks and wiring up heating

[Yorkshire Jim]

I agree that some sparkys can wire up a heating system with confidence, but you do get those that forget everything and totally lose it as soon as they see SL! I too have used relays for wiring up larger systems, and once you've done a couple it's quite easy. It's all about understanding what the components do (i.e. Where they switch, etc.). With the modern boilers it's wise to have an idea about electrics so that components such as thermistors, for example can be tested. It's same with any trade, you get those that know and those that should stay at home.

 

[sparkygas]

Wow, what a funny thread. Firstly, rare to get a sparks who fully understands boiler/control wiring. There again rare to find a HA installer who doesn't have a superiority complex about everything and a heated desire to be home by 2 o'clock, and who would have a clue how to work out whether his wiring will cause over heating/over current RCD tripping etc. Horses for courses my son. Sorry you backed a loser today 😉

 

[gaspastemania]

Wow, what a funny thread. Firstly, rare to get a sparks who fully understands boiler/control wiring. There again rare to find a HA installer who doesn't have a superiority complex about everything and a heated desire to be home by 2 o'clock, and who would have a clue how to work out whether his wiring will cause over heating/over current RCD tripping etc. Horses for courses my son. Sorry you backed a loser today 😉

You forgot to mention home by 2 o clock with £300 banked "!!!

 

[cr0ft]

I have always wired my own heating stuff. I can do it with my eyes shut.
Recently i got pulled by a cust over a minor works cert so decided to sub the wiring out. I have since had 4 different sparks, all good electricians but all totally clueless on heating who all take forever and cost me a lot more than their cost in downtime telling then how to do it and waiting on them faffing around.
I am seriously considering becoming a course cowboy for electrics just to free myself from these idiots.

LOL @ Cowboy course. That's what I've just done recently although I wouldn't call it that, it was as hard as nails and a lot of people failed it. But, with a good brain and a lot of homework you will do fine on the course. Obviously you can already plumb in full central heating systems so I'm sure you have the good brain bit 🙂 . I did the 5 week one which gives you your 2391-10 inspection and testing, 17th Edition Wiring Regs plus your domestic electrical installer certificate on completion (if you pass the final exam). I know it is a lot of time out of your business but it gives you a much better understanding of it all plus you can then register for full-scope work. Full cost to me was £1,200 after the VAT was claimed back.

I honestly feel that after doing the 5 week one that the domestic electrical installer course gives you too little information but that's just my opinion and another discussion entirely.

I'm quoting for my first re-wire at the moment and if I get it I will pretty much make back the cost of the course to be honest. Once you get your head round the calculations and theory then running wires from one fitting to the other is much easier than running pipes and better for the back/knees 🙂

My reason for doing the course was exactly the same as yours. I got fed up of paying for electricians to wire in heating controls when I understood far more about them than they did. On several occasions I even had to fault-find and correct faults with their wiring, despite them charging me for their services.

I really think that central heating wiring and switching are the hardest things to get your head round in domestic electrics and that if you can do them then you are well on your way.

 

[Captain.rick]

I have a job call out tomorrow where his electrics trip when he switches on heating/hot water. I had a quick look as i was passing and the situation is... Pump is new and the 3 port is working fine (visually) there was no tripping and it was all working fine? Next day, tripping again? Im a new combi man, not really into this sort of stuff but want to know more. This guy is sound and we get on, dont want to let him down or make myself look like a ****.
Can anyone offer any non abusive or rude advice on further checks etc?
Thanks

 

[plumben]

I have a job call out tomorrow where his electrics trip when he switches on heating/hot water. I had a quick look as i was passing and the situation is... Pump is new and the 3 port is working fine (visually) there was no tripping and it was all working fine? Next day, tripping again? Im a new combi man, not really into this sort of stuff but want to know more. This guy is sound and we get on, dont want to let him down or make myself look like a ****.
Can anyone offer any non abusive or rude advice on further checks etc?
Thanks

I'D surgest you post your own new thread on this matter as this post if from 2011 most people will see that and not even bother looking at your post

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I have a job call out tomorrow where his electrics trip when he switches on heating/hot water. I had a quick look as i was passing and the situation is... Pump is new and the 3 port is working fine (visually) there was no tripping and it was all working fine? Next day, tripping again? Im a new combi man, not really into this sort of stuff but want to know more. This guy is sound and we get on, dont want to let him down or make myself look like a ****.
Can anyone offer any non abusive or rude advice on further checks etc?
Thanks

what trips the mcb or the rcd if rcd then power is getting to the earth (around 30mv to trip)

 

[Captain.rick]

what trips the mcb or the rcd if rcd then power is getting to the earth (around 30mv to trip)

Trips rcd. Do you think it could be pcb? The fuses dont blow on spur

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Check the fan first, what boiler is it

 

[Captain.rick]

Check the fan first, what boiler is it

Ok mate will do, its a baxi solo old big thing 🙂 probably rotten inside they normailly are.

Was it 50-100 ohms a good fan, can't remember now, usually when they go they stink and melt a bit (especially Worcester bosch combi)

 

[Jay The Plumber]

a lot of this thread rings true.. a lot of guys only know combi's and old gits like me have to sort the older systems out electrically and then the sparkies are confused by relays or 3 way valves 🙂

I have been trying to get to the bottom of exactly what extent or wiring is 'allowed' - even under the competent persons scheme when it comes to plumbers wiring in their own work.. anyone know?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

a lot of this thread rings true.. a lot of guys only know combi's and old gits like me have to sort the older systems out electrically and then the sparkies are confused by relays or 3 way valves 🙂

I have been trying to get to the bottom of exactly what extent or wiring is 'allowed' - even under the competent persons scheme when it comes to plumbers wiring in their own work.. anyone know?

you can only wire to a fused spur/ connection unit unless your part p / 17th ed then you can do what you like

but if in a bathroom you can't do anything unless your part p / 17th ed

 

[joni os]

Intermittent tripping of RCD difficult to find. In one case straightening out wiring cured the problem, ( It tripped daily, and now hasn't tripped for 10 months). If the obvious can't be found leave it to an electrician who can check the RCD. As well as tripping at 30ma there is lower a currant at which it should not trip.

 

[Captain.rick]

Intermittent tripping of RCD difficult to find. In one case straightening out wiring cured the problem, ( It tripped daily, and now hasn't tripped for 10 months). If the obvious can't be found leave it to an electrician who can check the RCD. As well as tripping at 30ma there is lower a currant at which it should not trip.

Thanks mate, thats what i think ill do. Cheers for the help and advice to all too

 

[DaveTidy]

Most older Plumbers I know are fine on wiring and diagnoses of fully wired Y and S plans.
Newer Combi installs are a piece of cake (L,N,E,SL).

I'm with Halesowen on all new installs I do now, its just easier and quicker to quote for a chronotherm wireless.

I must admit to being stumped a couple of times on very old systems that have no 10 way and the timer was used as the junction box.
I understand how the system works but tracking the wiring down can be a pig of a job and sometimes its quicker to just disconnect the lot and rewire to a 10 way (as there are so many different ways of doing it).

I think the main problem is most plumbing courses skip over the electric side (and electrical legislation) as a lot of the big company's have an electrician following around connecting after the install and for a plumber its becoming a dieing art?

These guys seem to be building a heating wiring diagrams and manuals website slowly (I see it's not finished until end of April) so it'll be interesting how many diagrams end up on there..

Look at the heating wiring diagrams on the top menu