worcester bosch Vs Vaillant

[cdodds2004]

This debate rages on in my head on a daily basis, so here is my point of view just want to see what others think, company i used to work for before setting up my own company swore by vaillant, i fitted loads and loads of turbo max combi's and think they are brilliant boilers, good to work on reliable etc, bit awkward to fit but still great boiler, since then fitted alot of the condensing boilers combi's and heat only and also a very good boiler so easy to work on afterwards aswell,

Then just as i was considering leaving to set up on my own my x gaffer had a fall out with vaillant after they told a customer that a up and over blow off in a bungalow wasnt acceptable, no my gaffer wasnt disputing this totally but was annoyed that customer was informed before him making him look bad, he then changed over after over 15 years with vaillant to fitting worcester bosch,

My opinions on worcester bosch started hear, fitting loads of Jnrs/si's think they are possible the easiest boiler i have ever fitted with the jig and the telscopic flue etc, real nice piece of kit, although alot more difficult to work on afterwards i would say! maybe not quite as good quality as a vaillant alot of plastic parts inside etc.

BUT IMO the worcester aluminium heat exchanger is far better to for boilers being installed on existing systems after powerflushing or chemical flushing inevitably sludge often remains and i find the worcester to cope alot better than vaillants on systems with a amount of sludge in them, now i think the vaillant and the stainless heat exchanger has better heat transfer is better on brand new systems but the worcester copes alot better on older systems

my old employer had fitted a vaillant heat only boiler on a system, power flushed for 1 day prior to installation and magna clean fitted, boiler was noisy from day one, system was the chemicaly flushed and powerflushed again, with alot of contamination still coming out, after altering the cold feed and to try and stop system pulling in air was flushed again using ds40. alot of man hours later and every rad removed and manualy flushed through with a hose pipe system was running nice, 6 months later nosiy boiler so customer was advised to call vaillant, upon vaillant arriving diagnosis was some ds40 remainded in system and said heat exchanger was contaiminated, sooo we go back again remove heat exchanger connect up to powerflush machine on its own run F5 through it for 2 hours with zero sludge or anything coming out, so looks like magna clean did its job, refitted heat exchanger flushed system again, nice and clean. boiler still noisy, waiting on vaillants response as they dont really have anywere to hide as my x company has done more than what is required to honour the warranty and has lost alot of money on the job now. now i just feel its the stainless heat exchanger water ways are just to narrow, if anybody has removed one the pipes are so small!

i dont think this is great customer care from one of the biggest and most exspensive boiler companies

Worcester on the other hand have helped us out on occasions on boilers we havnt fitted have ran out of warranty due to people not registering them, and still replaced parts for free, and as of yet im yet to hear of a main heat exchanger having this kind of problems on a worcester! worcesters aftersales is amazing!

now the way i look at it is worcester may not have a boiler as good as vaillant but they make up for it with clever marketing and excellent customer servicing and warranty work, then when there boiler breaks the customer tells all his friends my boiler broke worcester fixed no problem, which is opposite of vaillant which seem to drag there heels on certain issues, not all mind you, but definatly some. seems like worcester have a im of fix it even if its the installers fault and keep reputation, now maybe they have bigger margins to work on the vaillant because there boilers are cheaper to produce i dont no??

seems alot like apples iniative, ipods very exspensive to buy very cheap to manufacture but when it breaks you go see a apple guru and they pritty much guranteed just give you a brand new unit you walk away thinking apple are amazing?

anyways do other people have any thoughts on what i have said? i used to be very pro vaillant but seem to be leaning towards worcester bosch these days!

 

[dontknowitall]

I install and service oil boilers and every time I see a Worcester boiler I know exactly what I'm looking at. I've only ever installed Worcester boilers and never yet had a call back (fitted around 7? new boilers).

The installation manuals have more than enough information in a logical format (start at page one and go through it gently). I've had a couple of difficulties with older boilers and the technical support has always answered the phone within 30 seconds and usually been really helpful, including waiting on the phone for me to look for something in the boiler.

I work with another plumber who does gas and he only installs Worcester boilers.

Just my views and on oil boilers. Gas might be quite different.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

there both rubbish fit a duotec😛rrr:

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I have a vaillant in my house and it's a noisey beast...maybe i should service it though lol. Both seem to be decent boilers though but at about the £1000 mark for the bigger models you should hope so, sounds like your getting good service from WB in the aftercare/help department though and that's very handy 🙂

 

[dontknowitall]

I've since learned their knowledge is limited!

 

[cdodds2004]

gas man you no im a fan of the duotec and the main eco aswell. these are pritty much the only boilers ill fit, dont touch anything else, just customers have perception vaillant/worcester are the 2 best boilers and with 5/6 year warrantys im not going to try and sell anything diffrent if thats what they want i just seem to be falling for worcesters allround package more at the moment, maybe not in future when it takes me longer to change parts, but after i went on the course at worcester there are means and ways of getting alot of the parts out that look hard to get at, although still not as easy as vaillant or baxi on that matter!


and i have a vaillant in my house aswell its a cracker never missed a beat but my system is super clean!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

can see your point if a custard wants a worcester fitted one for a guy insisted on worcester 4 years down the road ev gone and it had to come off the wall to change the prv his words were wish i had taken your advice so do i i said has i gave him a huge bill ,in regards to valiant know and respect a ex valiant service engineer his view there crap overly complex but sounds like custards going to have a worcester,just bill accordingly when it leaks/dies/catches on fire/melts/other

 

[cdodds2004]

prv can be changed on worcester jnrs keeping them on the wall u just need small hands and a good pair of small pump pliars, and most parts can be removed if u remove the hw outlet pipe and slide things through that gap! and yea i agree with u vaillants are complex, my only quibble with baxi, is the jig can be a pain in the bum sometimes lol on uneven walls, defo nack to getting em to line up! more i fit the easier it gets!

heard a cheeky rumour today that worcester are going to 5yr waranty out the box from september! which i guess means accredited installers 7yr warranty! they will have a busy winter if they do that !! like i said they obv have good margains and can afford the repairs in future! also £260 to get a worcester repaired no matter how many faults! and you can even send worcester to the job get them to bill you and then you charge your customer!

 

[villa_tom]

prv can be changed on worcester jnrs keeping them on the wall u just need small hands and a good pair of small pump pliars, and most parts can be removed if u remove the hw outlet pipe and slide things through that gap! and yea i agree with u vaillants are complex, my only quibble with baxi, is the jig can be a pain in the bum sometimes lol on uneven walls, defo nack to getting em to line up! more i fit the easier it gets!

heard a cheeky rumour today that worcester are going to 5yr waranty out the box from september! which i guess means accredited installers 7yr warranty! they will have a busy winter if they do that !! like i said they obv have good margains and can afford the repairs in future! also £260 to get a worcester repaired no matter how many faults! and you can even send worcester to the job get them to bill you and then you charge your customer!

I agree that the PRV can be changed without taking it off the wall, but I have found that its a lot easier to just whip it off the wall and do it that way. I have worked on them a few times and removed the hydroblock to get to certain parts and even though I have changed washers and greased them up they have still leaked. They are made of plastic and I really don't like ripping them apart, and I have got the hands of a 12 year old boy and I still struggle to get into them properly.

Vaillants are a lot easier to work on, especially if you need to get the burner out as its only one union and about 8 wingnuts.

To be fair to them both I think they are both cracking boilers when they are up and running, their a doddle to service and look pretty, but from a breakdown point of view the vailant wins hands down in mu opinion.

 

[metaldust9]

prafar to stick to baxi/potterton unless customer is adamant they want diffrent make

 

[Barry98]

im with gas man duo-tec every day of the week

 

[R1CKY]

I mainly fit Worcesters with the company I work for.

I don't like the way the PRV is installed on the SI and Junior models, that was a huge design flaw IMO. The Plate Heat Exchanger is suprisingly easy to remove.

Another gripe I have with the Si and Juniors is the jig isn't very rigid and can be a pain getting it to sit square and level on the wall.

It can be hit and miss with Worcester Technical, sometimes you get someone who knows the product inside out and other times you can tell they are reading from a manual.

Where as my experience with Vaillant Technical is quite poor. They are not very helpful and when you start asking in depth questions all they do is offer to send out a Vaillant Engineer for x amount!

I've only fitted one Vaillant, an EcoTec Plus or something like that. Wasn't hugely impressed, no out of the box option for upward mounting of pipes and the mounting bracket doesn't seem too secure.

Apart from that, it seemed like a well built unit.

 

[Paul - PDS]

as from today, I am never fitting a Worcester boiler again. I cannot stand the Compact range and I don't know how anyone is going to repair them either! Flues are a nightmare.. telescopic flue requires that stupid extension piece if you're having a side exit flue, then the screw on the right hand side is obscured by the flue itself so an 8mm spanner is needed, then the black ring that houses the circlips on the under side of the turret pops out everytime you apply any pressure to the screws. The PRV on iJuniors is just ridiculous (as are the flues on these too but no where newar as bad as the compact) Also on the new Compact range, the expansion vessel just falls into place and flaps about all over the place, absolutely ridiculous. Everything is sharp and cuts you to bits so when you are struggling with the pathetic flue, you are getting blood all over it.

Get a Vaillant, put it on the wall, pipe it in, put the flue on, done.

NEVER putting my name to Worcester again.

 

[Killy Bing]

as from today, I am never fitting a Worcester boiler again. I cannot stand the Compact range and I don't know how anyone is going to repair them either! Flues are a nightmare.. telescopic flue requires that stupid extension piece if you're having a side exit flue, then the screw on the right hand side is obscured by the flue itself so an 8mm spanner is needed, then the black ring that houses the circlips on the under side of the turret pops out everytime you apply any pressure to the screws. The PRV on iJuniors is just ridiculous (as are the flues on these too but no where newar as bad as the compact) Also on the new Compact range, the expansion vessel just falls into place and flaps about all over the place, absolutely ridiculous. Everything is sharp and cuts you to bits so when you are struggling with the pathetic flue, you are getting blood all over it.

Get a Vaillant, put it on the wall, pipe it in, put the flue on, done.

NEVER putting my name to Worcester again.

just reminding me i have a prv to change on a 24i junior next week....

 

[Ermintrude]

Just sell them a new boiler

 

[Paul - PDS]

Just sell them a new boiler

I agree, a Vaillant.

 

[Killy Bing]

I agree, a Vaillant.

as much as i like vaillants and being an advance installer.....

would still be another boiler 😛

 

[Mike Jackson]

Intergas

 

[jase158]

Went on the Worcester training course and the compact can be taken apart in approximately 30 seconds, that's 30 seconds!! and you will have everything out, hex, fan, pump the lot. This boiler was designed for the installer, easy to service, easy to repair.
However I agree with the expansion vessel, what a pain to fit, trick is to push out clip slowly, pull out the cap and then fit boiler, then undo screw and let it fall and push clip back in.

My problem with vaillants is this:
1. every one i have seen is either leaking or has leaked from aav, hex, pump etc
2. 90% of the ones i have been to have the pressure gauge faulty and our showing different pressures all round.
3. every vaillant i have been to has a fault with it of some sort.
I install vaillant because of there great after sales service, i dont install vaillant because of the history of vaillant, I am looking for a cheaper alternative, but there isnt a massive difference between Worcesters and the cheapest brand.

had somebody ask me the other day for a quote for a vaillant combi from back boiller.
my price £3,700
apparent quoted price £2,600
I go from recommendation most of the time, so they take my word on which boiler, quotes are either looking for cheapest price or comparison to there recommended guy, getting to the point where it is pointless quoting unless its recommended customer

 

[Roger Welton]

Went on the Worcester training course and the compact can be taken apart in approximately 30 seconds, that's 30 seconds!! and you will have everything out, hex, fan, pump the lot. This boiler was designed for the installer, easy to service, easy to repair.
However I agree with the expansion vessel, what a pain to fit, trick is to push out clip slowly, pull out the cap and then fit boiler, then undo screw and let it fall and push clip back in.

My problem with vaillants is this:
1. every one i have seen is either leaking or has leaked from aav, hex, pump etc
2. 90% of the ones i have been to have the pressure gauge faulty and our showing different pressures all round.
3. every vaillant i have been to has a fault with it of some sort.
I install vaillant because of there great after sales service, i dont install vaillant because of the history of vaillant, I am looking for a cheaper alternative, but there isnt a massive difference between Worcesters and the cheapest brand.

had somebody ask me the other day for a quote for a vaillant combi from back boiller.
my price £3,700
apparent quoted price £2,600
I go from recommendation most of the time, so they take my word on which boiler, quotes are either looking for cheapest price or comparison to there recommended guy, getting to the point where it is pointless quoting unless its recommended customer

If you like vaillants in principle, it would be worth taking a look at a Ideal Vouge, very similar, and imho better, certainly the user interface is.

 

[Paul - PDS]

Let's be honest all boilers are ****e.