Worcester over heat on DHW.

[Riley]

This giving jobs to these large companies is utter madness. Why are these jobs so expensive? It's not labour charges its 100-150% mark up on materials from them that make the prices so expensive.

You say it's too expensive hand it over to them they throw parts in that cost them virtually nothing pay someone a pants wage so either way it's a win win for them.

Large companies are ruining the world all in the name of profit and you guys are just handing it over to them.

I think you are entirely missing the point of the argument mate this problem has not been diagnosed with all the advice we have given. because the OP haven’t come back yet we still don’t know if it has been diagnosed if it is something that simple as the plate to plate then of course do it yourself but if it is a bigger problem then you as the engineer don’t want to be the one throwing parts at it in the hope that you repair it

 

[Mastermixlee]

This giving jobs to these large companies is utter madness. Why are these jobs so expensive? It's not labour charges its 100-150% mark up on materials from them that make the prices so expensive.

You say it's too expensive hand it over to them they throw parts in that cost them virtually nothing pay someone a pants wage so either way it's a win win for them.

Large companies are ruining the world all in the name of profit and you guys are just handing it over to them.

I have to agree to a certain extent as for the most part I've had alot of experience working for BG.
And the number of customers I've had over the years that were referred to BG by their usual plumber/gsr with the "he said it would be cheaper for me to get the fixed price repair by BG" that end up signing up to the homecare maintenance plan (thus leaving their usual guy who saved them the money with the advice out of pocket and one less customer) is a huge percentage.

It's rare that Id go to one that was a fixed price repair job that didn't end up being a maintenance contract sign up.

 

[Harvest Fields]

But we are talking about Worcester here mate. I would never send a customer to BG. I have also worked there.

 

[billski]

I think you are entirely missing the point of the argument mate this problem has not been diagnosed with all the advice we have given. because the OP haven’t come back yet we still don’t know if it has been diagnosed if it is something that simple as the plate to plate then of course do it yourself but if it is a bigger problem then you as the engineer don’t want to be the one throwing parts at it in the hope that you repair it

This is the problem, after all the checks I've not pin pointed the fault to be confident enough to start throwing expensive parts at it. Last thing I want to do is replace the plate to plate and find it's not sorted it, then ask for the customer for payment and tell them to get Worcester in. I think I'm going to replace the DHW thermistor ( think there is only one ) as that's not expensive and then run the F5 through it.

 

[Riley]

I know it’s been mentioned two or three times in the thread but have you actually called Worcester technical they are pretty good

 

[Mastermixlee]

But we are talking about Worcester here mate. I would never send a customer to BG. I have also worked there.

Thats entirely up to you. But Worcester do also have their own maintenance plan that they offer.

Sure if you've built up a good loyal customer then by all means save them money wherever you can (as long as you have charged for your initial diagnosis/time at least first).

But if it's potentially your first visit to a new customer and you refer them straight to the manufacturers (op case may or may not be this scenario) then it's highly likely you may lose that customer in my opinion.


Also a point to note that some may already be aware of is that by funding Worcester (if you perform install work too) then you are indirectly funding Boxt (a big competitor) as Worcester are a large shareholder in this business and supply boilers to Boxt for alot lower than general installers could possibly hope for...thus being able to offer lower prices generally.

In op case I don't think all avenues have been tested enough to pass to Worcester yet. As they have now said they will do, the dhw thermistor and f5 run through is cheap and could solve the problem for fraction of Worcester callout.

If you still are struggling after that then sure go down manufacturers route (if you haven't already ran through tech help on phone with them first that is, but assume you've already done that).

 

[billski]

I know it’s been mentioned two or three times in the thread but have you actually called Worcester technical they are pretty good

Yes called them twice. Their answer is it's PROBABLY the plate to plate or a blockage, PROBABLY.. I've had better info on this site from people who actually work on boilers, which isn't surprising really.

 

[Mastermixlee]

Yes called them twice. Their answer is it's PROBABLY the plate to plate or a blockage, PROBABLY.. I've had better info on this site from people who actually work on boilers, which isn't surprising really.

So guessing they ran through with you the thermistor resistances etc? If yes then whilst they can go out of range with temperature rise it isnt that often.

Though for £6-8 part cost and 10 minutes work it's definitely worth a punt first.

 

[billski]

So guessing they ran through with you the thermistor resistances etc? If yes then whilst they can go out of range with temperature rise it isnt that often.

Though for £6-8 part cost and 10 minutes work it's definitely worth a punt first.

On my first call they didn't mention any thing about testing any thermistors, just blockage. On my second call I said I'd checked the thermistors and they thought it wouldn't be that. As you say a DHW thermistor is cheap as chips and it might be going out of range, so I was thinking of replacing it just before I try to clean it with f5. I checked all the others by linking them out one at a time and it still had the fault.

 

[Mastermixlee]

On my first call they didn't mention any thing about testing any thermistors, just blockage. On my second call I said I'd checked the thermistors and they thought it wouldn't be that. As you say a DHW thermistor is cheap as chips and it might be going out of range, so I was thinking of replacing it just before I try to clean it with f5. I checked all the others by linking them out one at a time and it still had the fault.

If you change the thermistor and it's not solved, don't throw away the old thermistor. Keep it so if you ever get similar issue again then you can easily change out thermistor at no cost to test and confirm future diagnosis.

 

[Riley]

For the price of a bag of seals why don’t you take the plate out and check it

 

[billski]

For the price of a bag of seals why don’t you take the plate out and check it

It's difficult to weigh up what's best. Even if I take it out and look in it I might not see anything and it could still be blocked. And it's not one of the quickest ones to take out. Plus with the cleaner I'll be cleaning both heat eexchangers and the pipe ways.

 

[Harvest Fields]

It's difficult to weigh up what's best. Even if I take it out and look in it I might not see anything and it could still be blocked. And it's not one of the quickest ones to take out. Plus with the cleaner I'll be cleaning both heat eexchangers and the pipe ways.

But you can pass water through it and check

 

[Millsy 82]

How have you tested the pump?

How have you tested the DHW thermistor?

 

[Millsy 82]

But you can pass water through it and check

Also if its sludged you will see little flakes coming out of it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

TBH as it’s out would add some coke in and let it sit for 30 mins

 

[Millsy 82]

Also a point to note that some may already be aware of is that by funding Worcester (if you perform install work too) then you are indirectly funding Boxt (a big competitor) as Worcester are a large shareholder in this business and supply boilers to Boxt for alot lower than general installers could possibly hope for...thus being able to offer lower prices generally.

That's interesting to know that they are a large shareholder in boxt.

I was going to say that eventually you will end up giving too much to Worcester that you are no longer needed and they will have there own engineers install the boilers and then there own engineers repair them and so on.

It's like these boiler diagnostics that bg now offer, when will Worcester start offering them to their customers then steal all the Worcester repairs market then if the other manufacturers follow suit which they do boom no more breakdowns unless you work for the big companies then no servicing as they will say warranties will be void unless serviced by a manufacturer approved service engineer then the next thing were all going round changing taps and unlocking toilets.

It is very scary what the jobs market will be in the future and how future generations will live in a world where large companies are more powerful than countries.

 

[Harvest Fields]

That's interesting to know that they are a large shareholder in boxt.

I was going to say that eventually you will end up giving too much to Worcester that you are no longer needed and they will have there own engineers install the boilers and then there own engineers repair them and so on.

It's like these boiler diagnostics that bg now offer, when will Worcester start offering them to their customers then steal all the Worcester repairs market then if the other manufacturers follow suit which they do boom no more breakdowns unless you work for the big companies then no servicing as they will say warranties will be void unless serviced by a manufacturer approved service engineer then the next thing were all going round changing taps and unlocking toilets.

It is very scary what the jobs market will be in the future and how future generations will live in a world where large companies are more powerful than countries.

Very conspiracy theory if you.😀

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That's interesting to know that they are a large shareholder in boxt.

I was going to say that eventually you will end up giving too much to Worcester that you are no longer needed and they will have there own engineers install the boilers and then there own engineers repair them and so on.

It's like these boiler diagnostics that bg now offer, when will Worcester start offering them to their customers then steal all the Worcester repairs market then if the other manufacturers follow suit which they do boom no more breakdowns unless you work for the big companies then no servicing as they will say warranties will be void unless serviced by a manufacturer approved service engineer then the next thing were all going round changing taps and unlocking toilets.

It is very scary what the jobs market will be in the future and how future generations will live in a world where large companies are more powerful than countries.

Worcester have nothing to do with boxt

CEO of Bosch own them

 

[Millsy 82]

Very conspiracy theory if you.😀

It will happen. These large companies are only profit and power driven, not like the likes of me and you that want to earn enough to fend for our families but they want to take over the next company streamline and take more profits off them and so on.

My mrs watches inside the factory and you see how all the factories now have driver less forklift going round. Driverless lorries are on the way. People buy fuel from a robot (I refuse to pay at pump) meter readers are becoming obsolete due to smart meters that supposedly save us money (more like they save having to employ as many people) companies like Amazon are trialling robot deliveries in cities. In 30 years time the world will be totally different that's why I disagree with giving too much to these big companies.

 

[Millsy 82]

Worcester have nothing to do with boxt

CEO of Bosch own them

So the company that own Worcester dont have anything to do with Worcester?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So the company that own Worcester dont have anything to do with Worcester?

Boxt

 

[Millsy 82]

Boxt

I dont think you get what I was saying.

Worcester is owned by Bosch boxt is part owned (45%) by Robert Bosch uk holding Ltd

So try telling me that Worcester have nothing to do with boxt.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I dont think you get what I was saying.

Worcester is owned by Bosch boxt is part owned (45%) by Robert Bosch uk holding Ltd

So try telling me that Worcester have nothing to do with boxt.

Do you realise how much robert Bosch owns / have shares in 😀

 

[Millsy 82]

Do you realise how much robert Bosch owns / have shares in 😀

Yep.

 

[billski]

Just an update..

Replaced the DHW thermistor and it still over heated on hot water.
I then ran the F3 cleaner through it buy closing off the flow valve with the hot water tap open. Ran it for about 20 mins with the cleaner in it, left it for half hour and ran the tap again for another 15mins. It still continued to over heat as I ran the cleaner through it. Gave me the impression it hadn't worked. Flushed the cleaner out, which was quite black, filled it up to 1 bar and ran it. At first it still didn't run right, but eventually it settled down and now seems to be fine. Customer has used it for a week and said it's perfect. It makes me think the main heat exchanger was blocked.

 

[Mastermixlee]

Just an update..

Replaced the DHW thermistor and it still over heated on hot water.
I then ran the F3 cleaner through it buy closing off the flow valve with the hot water tap open. Ran it for about 20 mins with the cleaner in it, left it for half hour and ran the tap again for another 15mins. It still continued to over heat as I ran the cleaner through it. Gave me the impression it hadn't worked. Flushed the cleaner out, which was quite black, filled it up to 1 bar and ran it. At first it still didn't run right, but eventually it settled down and now seems to be fine. Customer has used it for a week and said it's perfect. It makes me think the main heat exchanger was blocked.

Good to hear it worked. Had one recently that took about 40 minutes to clear through.

 

[billski]

Good to hear it worked. Had one recently that took about 40 minutes to clear through.

Cheers for your help!