Erp

[hammers4spanner]

What are guys making of this energy rating scheme thats coming in for all appliances ,cylinders ,rads etc?

To me mainly thinking another headache for us simply because yet again joe bloggs builder who illegally installs , or mr bobajob who will install new rads will simply ignore this leaving it all left on us.

Or am i way off the mark with this?

 

[Riley]

I'm intrigued what the implications will be. It's been rolled out but no real in depth explanation for installers

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Theirs a seminar being put on all over the country, might be worth going to.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I know plumb centre are releasing an app and offering help to installers all over the country for this .

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

I know plumb centre are releasing an app and offering help to installers all over the country for this .

That's where I sore the leaflet, thought it was an industry thing but maybe Plumbs are running something for it?

 

[Riley]

Theirs a seminar being put on all over the country, might be worth going to.

Any links??

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

No sorry Mate, I'll pick up a leaflet on Monday if I have time.

 

[hammers4spanner]

They had about 30 venues written on the flyer so would imagine one would be near by

 

[AWheating]

Explaining ErP

 

[zzzjim]

Just when I thought all my A rated bulbs where good ,they bring out A** rating .
" A process of continuous improvement "
Others call it Moving the Goal Posts !

( Thanks for Link AW )

 

[finkbat]

I have a link to the plumb events but it won't let me post it...

 

[Riley]

Think you need over ten posts before you can post

 

[stevetheplumber]

a** lights will be known as darks
cant see bugger all with the a rated ones

 

[leek]

Going to bump his thread, I have managed to miss all the Plumb seminars, has anyone seen any others anywhere, think it goes live 25th September and I know very little about it!

 

[Rckape]

I'm in the same boat, there was a seminar 10 mins from a job I had, but things inevitably overran and I missed it.

I've tried reading on the interweb but can't make much sense of it. I can't view the video on the back site right now, my mobile data isn't good enough. I'll try when I've got wifi.

I've seen plenty of advice for retailers but not much specific to the install side.

 

[leek]

The video was good and explained the very basics but a little bit more would help. Not much I could find on the Internet - reckon there must be more about it soon, just a bit irritated I missed all those seminars. Ah well hopefully all will become closer at some point!

 

[solutions]

The video was good and explained the very basics but a little bit more would help. Not much I could find on the Internet - reckon there must be more about it soon, just a bit irritated I missed all those seminars. Ah well hopefully all will become closer at some point!

I wouldnt worry about it no one is going to care and it will be policed as thoroughly as benchmark and all the other equally pointless schemes. No one is policing water and gas regulations properly let alone this latest rubbish Which wont ever potentialy put someones health or safety at risk.
Waste of time.

 

[leek]

I do feel the same, but at the same time it would be nice to be informed about it! It's just another headache isn't it.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Of course we could always ask GS ! because they will know all about it, lol just like everything else, answer you will get is ' Its a bit of a gray area ' so you decide what to do ! no doubt more rubbish from the EU

 

[Riley]

Right, to put a bit of a flip on this. I went on the glowworm/Vaillant presentation about the ERP yesterday. It would seem that their club energy and vaillant advance apps make the whole process very easy. Have any other manufacturers put anything similar in place yet??????

 

[Ray Stafford]

Right, to put a bit of a flip on this. I went on the glowworm/Vaillant presentation about the ERP yesterday. It would seem that their club energy and vaillant advance apps make the whole process very easy. Have any other manufacturers put anything similar in place yet??????

I think thats only true if you fit all their kit. Which is exactly what they are trying to promote.

The issues are likely to arise if you fit a Vaillant boiler, with a megaflo unvented and honeywell controls.

Ideally, someone will produce a third party app which brings together all the industry standard stuff.

 

[Riley]

The Glowworm app definitely takes it all into account the only bit of extra work is that you have to add the 3rd party figures/stats yourself but it's only like 3 or 4 boxes to fill in

 

[Riley]

I was also told that cylinders would have their own ERP rating. Oh god!!!! Confused again now

 

[Ray Stafford]

I was also told that cylinders would have their own ERP rating. Oh god!!!! Confused again now ��

Yes. They are all uprating their lagging spec to try to squeeze a bit more out of their rating.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Don't even worry about it customer won't be none wiser anyhow does anyone loom at the same sticker on your new fridge ?????

Nah course you don't

 

[Ray Stafford]

I agree with Hammers. For new build and HA work, it will be an issue, and maybe for the odd tree-hugger.

I don't imagine anyone else will give a rats bum.

 

[Riley]

I totally agree with you Ray My problem is I have this uncanny knack of working for people that ask for things like this so not doing it and getting the earache is a strong likelihood. I blooming hate customers

 

[Ray Stafford]

I totally agree with you Ray My problem is I have this uncanny knack of working for people that ask for things like this so not doing it and getting the earache is a strong likelihood. I blooming hate customers

Could be worse Matt. You might be in Brighton, where the tree-huggers make up a majority!

 

[lame plumber]

I thought Brighton was full of huggers with a B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Give it 6 months and GS will add it to our exams!!? Bit more money for them!

 

[lame plumber]

Give it 6 months and GS will add it to our exams!!? Bit more money for them!

gawd, dont give them ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

gawd, dont give them ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the sad truth Lame!

 

[billybob150811]

went to a seminar and listened to the bits I want. So my take was most boilers are circa 90% eff, the controls I fit are basic and only add one point and don't move the combined boiler/controls out of the category its already in. Then im trying to catch the eye of the guy giving out free beer tokens and sort of missed the rest

 

[solutions]

Give it 6 months and GS will add it to our exams!!? Bit more money for them!

They are already talking about changing the bandings for efficiencys within the erp initiative so in 6 months it will likeky have changed again. Gas safe wont get involved in it. The training sites might try and flog a course on it for a hefty sum full of information available from manufacturers or the net for free, as per the norm.

 

[Worcester]

To generate labels and fiches, The official 'free' site is here:
ELG - European Commission

And for packages (boiler, controls etc ) ELG - European Commission

There are also labels for combis from the space heating link on the label generator page

Want to know all about it? Go here: https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/energy-efficiency/energy-efficient-products

We've been on a number of different manufacturers training courses, and they are all pretty simple, there again, we'll get audited every year, and they'll check that we are issuing them, coz that's the way MCS works...

Manufacturers have a legal obligation to make it simple for installers, so expect instructions, / apps / websites from all of them.

 

[leek]

Had a few minutes to have a google this pm and found this on ideal....

Martin Watson
July 9, 2015 at 3:27 pm
In the statement in the erp directive it mentions about calculating the system efficiency. As an installer who is commissioning the appliance, what is the process to follow to calculate this figure to add to the completed paperwork

Hi Martin,
There are a few points to remember with regard to labelling, systems and calculations. If you are supplying a complete heating system, you will be responsible for creating and providing homeowners with the energy efficiency package label and fiche.
A ‘package label’ must be produced when selected components are installed together, however, you will not need to supply a ‘package’ label if you are only installing a boiler or a boiler plus hot water cylinder, as these are not defined as ‘packages’ or ‘systems’ under the directive.
Whether an installation requires a ‘system’ calculation simply depends on whether it meets one of two definitions of a package as given by the directive:
1 A space heater plus a temperature control device and/or a solar device, OR
2 A water heater and a solar device
(Please note that conventional cylinders are not included, neither are radiators or pumps. Pumps are individually rated.)
As manufacturers will have to supply the energy efficiency figures for their products, calculating the whole system efficiency will be as simple as adding together the different percentages of the components used in the system to generate an overall figure. You can find the information in the product fiches supplied by manufacturers in the installation manuals. The total will then translate into ratings familiar to consumers from their TVs and household goods energy labels.
Controls will not carry an ErP label but play an important part in the calculation and rating of a package. Controls are classified into eight groups, each of which is allocated a percentage score.
For example, an Ideal Vogue 26kW combi boiler has an energy efficiency figure of 93%, if installed with Class 8 controls an additional 5% can be added, to give a total of 98% which translates into an A+ rated system.
We are currently developing a dedicated web page for installers to calculate and generate package labels – watch this space for more information!