Flue terminal not sealed

[TFGplumbing]

So I ''at risked'' a boiler last week because the flue terminal is not sealed with cement externally, it is sealed badly internally with silicone.

Land lord is questioning warning notice.. 'can't it just be sealed internally with cement?'

I said no as flue gases could potentially enter the cavity.

Tell me I am not going insane...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Does it have a cowle externally ? If yes it's fine if no your right

 

[JAH HEATING]

Does it have a cowle externally ? If yes it's fine if no your right

That's wrong, ideal would say it's OK if it just had weathering collar. No cement required, baxi wouldn't

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That's wrong, ideal would say it's OK if it just had weathering collar. No cement required, baxi wouldn't

So double standards gas safe say must have a collar on the outside and either collar or sealed internal

 

[JAH HEATING]

So double standards gas safe say must have a collar on the outside and either collar or sealed internal

Don't even start with vaillant, some of their staff don't even know that if their flue ain't sealed inside but is sealed outside, then it's AR!

Ive an email with this on from their technical.

 

[JAH HEATING]

All mi's say to BS 5440, yet it's different horses for courses with some.

I just judge it how I see it, if it's not sealed outside an you can move it easily then AR it.

Carry some fire cement around as a temporary measures

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yea so collar on outside and sealed internal fine, no collar and not sealed outside ar, sealed both ends with approved methods fine

 

[TFGplumbing]

Thanks for your replies guys

Its a early 28i Junior.. there's no cowle. The silicone seal internally is so poor you can see day-light.

The reason its not been sealed externally with cement is because its a loft install.. on a gable end & there's a conservatory beneath it; so no hope of getting ladders up to it.

Landlord is getting twitchy because he knows he'd need a scaffold erected just to put some cement in it.

will it always be AR until its cemented externally is basically what i'm asking. thanks

 

[JAH HEATING]

Ir the flue hole is only size of core bit, Worcester are sound with that an cowel.

Take the flue out am fit the cowel on it, an pull it back to Wall an it's sorted.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks for your replies guys

Its a early 28i Junior.. there's no cowle. The silicone seal internally is so poor you can see day-light.

The reason its not been sealed externally with cement is because its a loft install.. on a gable end & there's a conservatory beneath it; so no hope of getting ladders up to it.

Landlord is getting twitchy because he knows he'd need a scaffold erected just to put some cement in it.

will it always be AR until its cemented externally is basically what i'm asking. thanks

Or take a pain / sheet out from the conserv

 

[Chalked]

New vaillants are nearly impossible to seal outside, as the collar is fixed.

 

[gassafe]

Can of expanding foam & a long nozzle...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can of expanding foam & a long nozzle...

Can't agnst gas safe rules as can crush flue (or so I believe)

 

[gassafe]

Can't agnst gas safe rules as can crush flue (or so I believe)

Yeah I heard that mentioned before... Must be better than the stuff iv ever used lol... Horrible messy stuff anyway

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yeah I heard that mentioned before... Must be better than the stuff iv ever used lol... Horrible messy stuff anyway

Yep don't get I on your hands doesn't come off for like two weeks

 

[JAH HEATING]

Can't agnst gas safe rules as can crush flue (or so I believe)

Yeah, sealing flues with expanding foam is a no / no isn't it ?

Few years ago they come up with this didn't they ?Nothing ever simple in this job, constant changes.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yeah, sealing flues with expanding foam is a no / no isn't it ?

Few years ago they come up with this didn't they ?Nothing ever simple in this job, constant changes.

Yep but think it's the old ncs if everything else is ok

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Yeah, sealing flues with expanding foam is a no / no isn't it ?

Few years ago they come up with this didn't they ?Nothing ever simple in this job, constant changes.

not quite true,if you use a low expansion type and it does largely depend on what the Manufacturer allows,foam is ok,as in everything mi,s dictate what can be used ,Baxi and ideal allow foam

 

[kb76]

I swear it depends on who picks up the phone, had a load of duo tec's on a new build where builder used foam. I called Baxi who told me its a no no and their engineers won't work on them. Gas Safe said depends on the foam used. Dismantling a conservatory seems extreme, I'd be inclined to seal using long reach nozzle with express cement and correctly seal the inside. Analyse it...happy days!

 

[Last Plumber]

And all this conversation exists because someone picked the cheapest price again and someone didn't do their job properly.
probably
in my opinion

 

[billybob150811]

not sure if the sealing with c&s is a building requirement rather than gas safe or manufacturer which is why replys to this question can be vague

 

[hammers4spanner]

Said it before AR at times is so wishy washy and customers end up so confused why you fail a flue for this reason.
What's the odds of someone having an issue with a fan flued appliance that had internal an external collar but unsealed?
That's not to mention the gases becoming diluted in atmosphere

 

[JAH HEATING]

They should of got rid of at risk if you ask me, it's farcical.

Your appliance isn't safe but you're not letting me isolate it, well at least I've covered my back.

 

[TFGplumbing]

its all rather farcical, only gas engineers care about the classifications, most people dont even know what gas safe is

 

[ambrosia]

Can of expanding foam & a long nozzle...

no no no, one of my pet hates, if the foam has nowhere to go it can crush the flue, plus following engineers have to trust a heat proof one was used

worcester say this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld1PWjxQ7aM

 

[GrahamM]

Seeing this on a daily basis working in landlord flats I have never AR a flue for not being sealed externally.
If I happy flue is secure and preferably cement sealed at least on inside it is just an observation as far as I am concerned.

And expanding foam is just a no no.

 

[unguided1]

If Yer that worried about it, cement the bugger up!

 

[AWheating]

Unless MI allows the rubber as a seal then its AR. Easier to cement up than do paperwork unless high up

 

[hammers4spanner]

I went on a Taylor Wimpey new build site where the builder had expanding foam all the flue holes about 90 of them on ideal logics. Phoned up ideal and they said no no no they won't honour any warranty with expanding foam .

 

[sammathias]

bet that builder was happy :nono:

 

[hammers4spanner]

bet that builder was happy :nono:

Nothing gonna happen multi million pound company

 

[Chalked]

bet that builder was happy :nono:

I bet ideal boilers are happy too! Not going to warrantee the whole boiler because of some expanding foam.

 

[GrahamM]

Unless MI allows the rubber as a seal then its AR. Easier to cement up than do paperwork unless high up

Why?
Can you point to the standard that confirms this?