Un-sleeved gas pipe, landlord saftey check.

[ShaunCorbs]

NCS - doesn’t exist anymore, do whatever you want
AR - isolate at Gas supply or remove fuse from
Spur with permission, attach label and issue notice
ID - disconnect, or my interpretation (cap off if going back tomorrow) and attach label/leave notice. I physically do not know where you are saying I am wrong?
It maybe me just being stupid?

just with with sleeve theyve upgraded it from ncs to ar which i dont agree with

 

[Harvest Fields]

just with with sleeve theyve upgraded it from ncs to ar which i dont agree with

Bit that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. As I said earlier. It is down to engineer interpretation of the rule

 

[sammathias]

If you leave a notice you have to cap the supply

Isolate supply mate

 

[townfanjon]

Nah, ID capped , AR turned off , with the owners permission of course .

 

[Harvest Fields]

Isolate supply mate

I would isolate and leave a notice which is what I was trying to get too in the first place.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Isolate supply mate

how do you isolate the install?

 

[Harvest Fields]

just with with sleeve theyve upgraded it from ncs to ar which i dont agree with

Sleeve has been AR for years when it is straight off the gas meter.

 

[Harvest Fields]

how do you isolate the install?

By the appliance spur or Gas tap/ECV

 

[ShaunCorbs]

By the appliance spur or Gas tap/ECV

so ar is cap the supply

 

[Harvest Fields]

so ar is cap the supply

Nope, because you remove the fuse from the spur or turn the gas tap to off position or pull the ecv to the off position (this is not a cap as you can Turn it back on with minimum effort). When you cap something you are disconnecting it from the supply. You only disconnect on an ID. NOT AN AR.

Edit due to bad grammar

 

[Harvest Fields]

If eventually we solve this and I am wrong. I will apologise for being wrong. But at the minute I am standing my ground on this one.

 

[sammathias]

how do you isolate the install?

Yeh I get where your coming from I think. If you can't isolate supply appliance without isolating whole install affecting other appliances then you would can it at appliance but that's quite a rare occurrence...

 

[Harvest Fields]

Yeh I get where your coming from I think. If you can't isolate supply appliance without isolating whole install affecting other appliances then you would can it at appliance but that's quite a rare occurrence...

But that isn’t what the GIUSP say. That is an isolated instance that you would deal
With when in that position.

 

[sammathias]

Ok so a.r is isolate appliance and i.d is disconnect and cap...both with warning notice.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Ok so a.r is isolate appliance and i.d is disconnect and cap...both with warning notice.

Ok so a.r is isolate appliance and i.d is disconnect and cap...both with warning notice.

That’s what I think. But I am getting told otherwise on here.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

thing is the appliance in question is the gas meter so your turning off the gas meter ?

 

[Harvest Fields]

thing is the appliance in question is the gas meter so your turning off the gas meter ?

I get that. And I know what you are saying. But it doesn’t say cap off.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I get that. And I know what you are saying. But it doesn’t say cap off.

the effect is the same tho a customer with no gas

 

[sammathias]

Still wouldn't cap the meter tho

 

[Harvest Fields]

the effect is the same tho a customer with no gas

Yes. But one is capped (ID) or isolated (AR)

Edit due to bad grammar and beer

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m so glad this is in a closed group. Otherwise no one would trust any of us

 

[wattsie1987]

The main point here is the fact of the location, because it's in meter box there is unregulated gas pressure (up to 75mb) which could potentially have a much higher leakage rate. Also no dilution with air will take place in a meter box. The key point is that prevention should be in place to stop that entering the building in the result of a leak. Ie the sealing in this instance is more important than the sleeve providing no deteriation of pipework.

As it stands its AR and turn off. Sealing it would lead it to be non compliant and advise customer regarding sleeve.

If it wasn't in a meter box it would just be non compliant regardless of sleeve or seal.

Hope this helps!

 

[Harvest Fields]

The main point here is the fact of the location, because it's in meter box there is unregulated gas pressure (up to 75mb) which could potentially have a much higher leakage rate. Also no dilution with air will take place in a meter box. The key point is that prevention should be in place to stop that entering the building in the result of a leak. Ie the sealing in this instance is more important than the sleeve providing no deteriation of pipework.

As it stands its AR and turn off. Sealing it would lead it to be non compliant and advise customer regarding sleeve.

If it wasn't in a meter box it would just be non compliant regardless of sleeve or seal.

Hope this helps!

The point about the meter box is the point I was making and the reason I was asking which gas pipe. But thanks for the support.

 

[Old Account]

Nah, ID capped , AR turned off , with the owners permission of course .

If owner disagrees with AR turning off, do I need to fill out a form and attach a label and what should I do then if they don’t let me turning the appliance off when having AR ?

When having ID i will cap the meter or the appliance with customers permission, issuing a form and label it. If customers doesn’t want me I would need to call transco don’t I ?

I just want to be sure as I never done that but perhaps one day I come across something like this.

Thanks

 

[Harvest Fields]

@Matchless.plumb I cannot go through all this again mate. Really sorry. But the short version is if customer refuses either an isolation (AR) or disconnect (ID) (a cap off is not a disconnect which is needed for an ID) you call CADENT not Transco. Hope this makes sense if not I will type it all again and try to word it better

 

[townfanjon]

Just to chuck another spanner in the works , I did my ACS last week and couldn't believe what the assessor was saying ... this is new ish , I didnt know.

Only for certain AR’s , if whatever you are AR-ing doesn't actually remove the risk , you can leave the appliance on !!!! Its in the new niceic books .

 

[Harvest Fields]

Just to chuck another spanner in the works , I did my ACS last week and couldn't believe what the assessor was saying . this is new ish , I didnt know.

Only for certain AR’s , if whatever you are AR-ing doesn't actually remove the risk , you can leave the appliance on !!!! Its in the new niceic books .

But you still have to leave a notice and it is still AR?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry I was wrong for once

 

[townfanjon]

But you still have to leave a notice and it is still AR?

Yep a signed notice but no sticker , I honestly thought he was joking

 

[Harvest Fields]

Sorry I was wrong for once

If that’s the case mate. It definitely doesn’t happen often. You are one of the first people I would come to for advice as I know that you have a wealth of experience and knowledge (a heck of a lot more than me) the reason I was pushing so much was it is what I had drummed into me for years when I was on the cards. I panicked for a second that I had been doing it wrong all this time. But the rules are constantly changing so we are all wrong at some point.

 

[sammathias]

Must not of had his weetabix that morning.

 

[sammathias]

Only for certain AR’s , if whatever you are AR-ing doesn't actually remove the risk , you can leave the appliance on !!!! Its in the new niceic books .

I don't quite understand... Surely everything your at risking...by isolating the appliance it's going to remove the risk or am I being thick?

 

[townfanjon]

I don't quite understand... Surely everything your at risking...by isolating the appliance it's going to remove the risk or am I being thick?

No your not , I thought exactly the same thing when I heard it , as we went through the re-assessment they would ask AR , turn off ? leave on ? . No joke this

Eg ( copied out off book ) no AECV at point of entry into a building where one is required, that is AR but its AR “leave on”

 

[jefaz]

No your not , I thought exactly the same thing when I heard it , as we went through the re-assessment they would ask AR , turn off ? leave on ? . No joke this

Eg ( copied out off book ) no AECV at point of entry into a building where one is required, that is AR but its AR “leave on”

It’s called ‘AR no action’ and the best example I can give you is a built over PE service. Dropping the handle will not in any way reduce the risk as it’s upstream of the ECV, however the situation is still AR
AR No Action has been around for a little while.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

There is no ‘Not to current standards’ anymore!
This is clearly ‘At Risk’ follow GIUSP and cover your bum :/