Wet patch on kitchen ceiling

[robbieh]

I've just noticed a small wet patch on the kitchen ceiling, about 12 inches away from the wall and around the size of a cup coaster. Directly above is the bath, and I have removed the bath panel and there is no evidence of splashes/leaking.

In the kitchen, in the corner, again around 12 inches from the patch, is the boiler. Is it possible a pipe is leaking going into there? If so, what can I do to sort it without expensive hassle that I cant afford?

If I removed a floor panel in the bathroom would I be able to see the pipes from the boiler? They go up into the ceiling area but I cant see where they go after that.

 

[Paulus]

Before you start demolishing the house check out everything in the bathroom. The last 3 ceiling damp patches I have been called to have all been a failed tap washer on the toilet cistern inlet and the water has tracked along joists before showing on the ceiling below.

Check your toilet cistern, washbasin tap connectors and washbasin waste. I assume you have already checked the bath waste and tap connectors.

 

[Guest123]

9 times out of 10, if the water ingress is intermittent, it's caused by a poorly fitted or leaking bath overflow. The leak from a bathroom is also usually waste related.

Remove the bath panel, put the plug in the waste and fill the bath up until it reaches the overflow and check if this is leaking. Pull theplug out and then check the bath trap and all waste pipe connections.

 

[robbieh]

Cheers both of you. I have checked the bath taps and plug, but not the overflow, so I'll check that along with the other suggestions.

 

[robbieh]

No apparant leaks from any bathroom plumbing. My daughter splashed too hard in the bath the other day, maybe yesterday, and some water bailed over the edge, where we have some gaps in the silicone, wondering if that could be the culprit? Even though its nowhere near the area, it may have tracked?

I've marked the edges of the patch with a pencil and see if it grows overnight.

Dunno if its relevant to any ideas, but the house is around 12 years old, only we have lived here, and we have had a bit of water hammer (I assume) for around a year.

 

[robbieh]

Ok, the patch has grown around an inch or so overnight. Any more suggestions?

 

[mountainman]

First thing to do is repair the silicone.

 

[robbieh]

Yep, gonna get that done today.

I was also thinking if I remove a floor panel in the bathroom, would I be able to see through to the kitchen ceiling, and therefore any pipes above it?

I've checked every visible pipe, including to and from the cylinder, and cant feel any wetness.

btw its a gloworm boiler in the kitchen.

 

[Guest123]

If the ceiling is damp, then the best course of action would be to cut a section out of it and reveal the leak.

 

[robbieh]

I had considered that. I was worried though that the leak might be rolling along a pipe from elsewhere and dripping there

 

[Paulus]

If it's reasonably easy to remove a floor panel, that would be my next step. If you don't actually find the leak you should be able to get a better picture of where it's coming from.

 

[robbieh]

I didnt remove the floor panel, the way its laid out means I wouldnt be ablt to see/access the pipe anyway.

I did cut out a square around the wet patch in the ceiling though, and found this:



either side of the drip appears dry, and if I wipe it away it seems to form centrally, i.e. not rolling in from either direction. There is no visible break or whatnot, so what could be causing this? I thought pipes were fairly robust, and it is just the joints and fittings that can cause problems.

Is this a quick easy repair? Plumbers mait or something similar?

 

[stratobuddy]

To make sure it is not running along pipe from either end, I would wrap some toilet tissue around the pipe both sides of the leak, about a foot away.

Then if it was coming along the pipe, one of the tissues would get wet and make it obvious.

 

[robbieh]

Good idea. Cheers mate I didnt think of anything like that.

 

[glenno1]

That looks like its tracking from sumwere.If it was the pipe it would possibly be pouring out,trace the pipe to were it goes to and you may find the fault

 

[CES]

I would say judging from the photo that it will be running along the pipe. If you have a cylinder fitted in a nearby cupboard have a look underneath where you might find the pump and valves. Check in there for leaks.

 

[glenno1]

As i look at photo it looks like its coming from right hand side

 

[stratobuddy]

The toilet tissue suggestion will show you which side it's coming from.

 

[robbieh]

I put the toilet tissue on and it stopped, but neither piece of paper was wet, its now stopped dripping altogether, but it does still feel slightly wet to touch.

The above image shows the pipe going off to the left, best guess to the bath cold tap?? I'm thinking that gauze looking thing by the baton would absorb a drip from that end, and ultimately make the wet patch appear underneath that end of the ceiling.



This is it going to the right (highlighted the pipe in red), best guess is that this splits to the right to the bathroom sink, but to the left them pipes all go down to the gloworm, so does that mean its a hot water pipe?

I've ran all the taps too and still it hasnt returned.

Edit: If you write hot water as one long word - the forum filters it as ho****er.

 

[stratobuddy]

If it has stopped with the tissue on the pipe, this suggests that it is tracking along the pipe and is being absorbed by the tissue.

As tissue is very absorbent, it could take quite a while (as it is a small leak) before the tissue becomes noticeably damp. I'd leave it on the pipe for a longer time and see what happens.

 

[robbieh]

Okay I think I found it. I tried touching the pipe to see if it was still wet, and it felt a ever so slightly rough. I scratched it and now there is a miniscule spray, it looks like a strand of spider web its so small.

Repair suggestions? Call a plumber or do it myself? While googling repair ideas I saw something called alfa tape which is allegedly perfect for such things? Is it the real deal?

 

[glenno1]

No tape is the real deal imo,call a plumber,if it is at a joint he may be able to just re-solder it

 

[stratobuddy]

There are various repair tapes that may fix it eg self-amalgamating, but I would not rely on any of these as a permanent solution.

Cutting out the leaking section and replacing with a new bit, joined in, preferably with soldered connections. You could use compression joints, although I'm sure you would be advised against this it they are inaccesible for inspection in the future.

I don't know whether you have the skills and tools to solder, but you will NOT be able to do this if there is ANY water left in the pipe when you try it.

 

[stratobuddy]

PS By the time you have bought a long length of pipe (you will not be able to buy 1 foot) and all the fittings at retail prices, it might be as cheap to get a plumber, but get a quote first for the job, including call-out.

If possible, use a plumber a friend can recommend.

 

[robbieh]

My girlfriend just got a number for her work collegues brother, whos a registered plumber, so I'll give him a bell. Any rough approximation for the price? I'm guessing once the waters shut off and the pipes drained its a 1/2 hour job for someone whos been doing it for years, especially as the leaks been identified and access has been made.

 

[tamz]

Simple job to fix. Cut the pipe and insert a fitting. A reasonable charge would be £50 - 70

 

[robbieh]

Thanks for that mate

 

[petercj]

If it's localised, you could fit one these:-


Repair 15 x 100mm | NoLinkingToThis

Easy enough to do.

 

[robbieh]

Yeah it is localised. I've called someone who said, based on what I've told him, he can do it for £20 - £30 quid.

 

[mountainman]

Don't forget your £100 donation to charity for the advice received on this forum

 

[petercj]

Yeah it is localised. I've called someone who said, based on what I've told him, he can do it for £20 - £30 quid.

That's good - probably not worth doing yourself.

Having looked again I see you need a 22m coupler, which is £6.84 anyway.

22 x 100mm Straight Coupler Compression - Compression - Plumbing -Tools, Electrical & Plumbing - Wickes

You mentioned a water hammer earlier, so will be worth checking to see if the pipework needs a clip or two.

 

[stratobuddy]

This is an even easier repair if you get problems in the future - - - -

15mm Pipe Repair Push Fit | NoLinkingToThis

However, I don't know how reliable it would be.

Edited in - - -
From the previous comment, seems it is 22mm pipe you have and not 15mm??

 

[stratobuddy]

Does anyone know why a copper pipe would suddenly develop a leak in the middle of a run, apart from freezing?

 

[robbieh]

Don't forget your £100 donation to charity for the advice received on this forum

If I bump into any of you, I'll gladly buy a few pints. Maybe some of you should set up a 'buy me a pint' paypal link.

Does anyone know why a copper pipe would suddenly develop a leak in the middle of a run, apart from freezing?

Thats what worries me. Like I mentioned in the OP, we do have water hammer, but I think thats to do with me fitting a new ballcock and valve in the loft tank a while back.

I usually blame the builders, westbury, they did a shoddy job putting these houses up. But in this case surely a copper pipe is a copper pipe.

 

[petercj]

If I bump into any of you, I'll gladly buy a few pints. Maybe some of you should set up a 'buy me a pint' paypal link.



Thats what worries me. Like I mentioned in the OP, we do have water hammer, but I think thats to do with me fitting a new ballcock and valve in the loft tank a while back.

I usually blame the builders, westbury, they did a shoddy job putting these houses up. But in this case surely a copper pipe is a copper pipe.

Ask the plumber who is fixing the leak for you - no doubt he will check for corrosion or damage when he cuts the pipe.