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Passable work or bodge job!?
- Thread starter Keith O'KEEFFE
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View the thread, titled "Passable work or bodge job!?" which is posted in General Plumbing Jobs Discussion on UK Plumbers Forums.
All a bit frosty at the moment but not a total breakdown. We're all a bit stressed for obvious reasons. Them because they're picking up someone else's Rubbish and me because I have to make sure it's all done right this time. Thanks for all the replies and advice.
It might be worth a chat to explain what you expect and what they are doing. If they are a new company correcting someone else’s mess they should be cut a bit of slack to be fair.
My thinking too, hence why I didn't go back and tell him to change the radiator flow and return pipes which curve. I reckon they'll be ok as the water pressure won't be as much as the hot/cold feeds to the shower. May come back and haunt me I know!
Combi boiler
Fabric tape will do, can also be used to hold up the wall.
So it’s a sealed system at a minimum of 1bar rising to 2-2.5 when hot. Up to you
You've lost me on that one I'm afraid! In my mind the chances of one of the O rings popping is relatively small. Just want him to get on with the rest of the job. We're in a Victorian property, it's amazing to me all the little bodges and quick fixes hidden under the floorboards, the ceilings and walls! You can get too stressed over every minute detail of a job and it just ends up with a Soded off workman
Ok up to you but your heating could conceivably rise pressure wise to 2.5 bar which is likely higher than your incoming mains. For the sake of two elbows I’d change it. And the minute details as you call them can often be the difference between a good and a bad job
You have to do what you think is best mate. We are only giving you recommendations on how we think that it should be done. But as long as you are happy.
Cheers, I'll be happy when it's all in and there are no leaks. Thanks again for the guidance.
Just bare that in mind if one of the John guest push fit fitting leak later on.
B
Burger
In my honest opinion, I wouldn’t be concealing a speedfit joint. The copper to the radiator needs to be protected from corrosion and movement (clipped).
The water regulations state the following:
No pipe shall be embedded in any wall or solid floor without meeting certain conditions.
No pipe shall be installed in a way it may become unduly warmed.
https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...eral/para_7_guidance_version_2_july_2014.pdf/
The water regulations state the following:
No pipe shall be embedded in any wall or solid floor without meeting certain conditions.
No pipe shall be installed in a way it may become unduly warmed.
https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...eral/para_7_guidance_version_2_july_2014.pdf/
Since the original picture, the plastic feed coming into the room through the wall has been changed to copper and the Speedfit elbow dropping the pipe down is now soldered copper. It switches to plastic pipe once under the floor. The plastic joint on the right hand side of the radiator flow is now in the void between the joists. Only thing that will be buried now is soldered copper piping.
Rob Foster
Esteemed
My opinion , 4o years experience.
1. Untidy pipes un supported
2. Yorkshire solder fittings .DIY in my book unless its in a tricky spot
3. If he wanted a job in my outfit..in the old days .he would
would have to improve
4. my boys would really have a go on a friday over a pint they are never backwards on coming fwds
5. However main test is will it leak it may not look pretty
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
1. Untidy pipes un supported
2. Yorkshire solder fittings .DIY in my book unless its in a tricky spot
3. If he wanted a job in my outfit..in the old days .he would
would have to improve
4. my boys would really have a go on a friday over a pint they are never backwards on coming fwds
5. However main test is will it leak it may not look pretty
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
A
Aire
Where does this myth of lime corroding copper come from?
W
Welder
"Copper water tubing has an outstanding history of corrosion resistance in most underground environments. Copper does not naturally corrode in most clays, chalks, loams, sands, and gravels. Certain aggressive soil conditions, however, can cause it to corrode. The basic prerequisite for corrosion is the presence of appreciable amounts of moisture. Other factors that can facilitate the corrosion process include soils having: (1) elevated concentrations of sulfate, chloride, ammonia compounds, or sulfide; (2) poor aeration, which supports anaerobic bacteria activity; (3) large amounts of organic or inorganic acid; and (4) large oxygen or neutral-salt (especially chloride) differentials."
In certain building materials, although lime is a constituent part, it may not be well mixed or indeed clumped. In these circumstances it can present as an acid to copper pipework.
Taken from www.copper.org
In certain building materials, although lime is a constituent part, it may not be well mixed or indeed clumped. In these circumstances it can present as an acid to copper pipework.
Taken from www.copper.org
I have always been under the impression that builder's lime is very caustic, i.e. alkali. In what circumstances does it become 'acidic'?
The only acidic lime I know is the evil green fruit...
A
Aire
That's strange because the same website recommends burying copper in lime chippings to act as a preservative.
There must be some reaction when the lime is mixed that makes it corrosive because natural lime isn't corrosive to copper at all, in fact copper artefacts have been found perfectly preserved in lime and they have been buried for hundreds of years.
I fully agree that copper should always be sleaved with felt at a minimum, but I've always done it on the basis it gives the copper an expansion gap and prolongs the life of the copper by reducing abrasion.
There must be some reaction when the lime is mixed that makes it corrosive because natural lime isn't corrosive to copper at all, in fact copper artefacts have been found perfectly preserved in lime and they have been buried for hundreds of years.
I fully agree that copper should always be sleaved with felt at a minimum, but I've always done it on the basis it gives the copper an expansion gap and prolongs the life of the copper by reducing abrasion.
You're right, its acidity that corrodes copper, hence areas with very soft water can have problems with copper pipe.
Looks like the issue with copper through cement is galvanic corrosion due to soluble chlorides in the vicinity of steel (e.g. rebar)
https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/corrosion-of-copper-in-concrete_o
B
Burger
A
Aire
Yep I found that out the hard way, didn't have any overflow pipe, used copper instead 😳 not my finest moment 😀
W
Welder
Personally, I feel all these formal tests simply fail to replicate the wonderfully infinite range of stupidity and lack of thought demonstrated by the human species. No matter what we look for, we can find evidence 'somewhere' for. Conversely, if we disagree we can find evidence 'somewhere' to back our arguments.
Perhaps all we can realistically do is to protect/do/carry on how 'we' see fit? It does make life extremely difficult when, like on here, we all wish to learn and improve but perhaps we just have to just get on a do what we believe in? Over time things will be proven and we'll all get 'better' at what we do. 😉
Perhaps all we can realistically do is to protect/do/carry on how 'we' see fit? It does make life extremely difficult when, like on here, we all wish to learn and improve but perhaps we just have to just get on a do what we believe in? Over time things will be proven and we'll all get 'better' at what we do. 😉
Poetically put Dave, truth is the workmanship is poor and can be improved on massively under no circumstances bury speedfit fittings in a wall the plastic supplies can be tidied up with little effort and if that's his best of effort of concealing pipes into a wall then your in trouble. Kop
Just for my own future knowledge (homeowner not plumber!), whats the difference between burying a fitting in the wall and under the floorboards, tile etc? If something leaks it means destruction to get to them either way, right?
W
Welder
Under the floor is much simpler to access. Often one can get to them from below if in the middle of the house or above if up top.
Fair dues. I've learnt more about plumbing these past few days than my previous 47yrs on the planet!! Cheers guys.
W
Welder
Quality job takes time ! time it’s money !
So either it’s cheaper and half decent but all works,
or nice and tidy and more expensive .
Also on retrofit you do not rip half the ,wall to fit nicely copper with clips and insulated etc as cement or other staff will make corrosion to copper and will be leaking .
So minimal destruction and make it work , or full refurb x3 price and all nice under the floor and plasterboard -water has no spine so matter 🙂
So either it’s cheaper and half decent but all works,
or nice and tidy and more expensive .
Also on retrofit you do not rip half the ,wall to fit nicely copper with clips and insulated etc as cement or other staff will make corrosion to copper and will be leaking .
So minimal destruction and make it work , or full refurb x3 price and all nice under the floor and plasterboard -water has no spine so matter 🙂
Andyh
Gas Engineer
I would do every joint in soldered copper and brasso the copper after .. and add extra support for pipe work in between joists ...I would obviously make a accessible hatch for any mechanical fittings buried in a wall ... powerflush the chrome radiator before adding it onto the heating circuit... as per m.i. ... re do the dodge brickwork if ... only every customer pays for it
dan_the_plumber
Gas Engineer
Proper plumbers use copper for inaccessible pipes. They also don't use 'solder ring' fittings.
What’s wrong with solder ring?
!!! I used Yorkshire fittings on all work for years. Nothing wrong with them for professionals except they cost more than end feed. 🙂
I generally only use end feed now, but still use Yorkshire on 15mm
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