Hot water from Valliant Boiler

[Margaret T]

A brand new valliant ecotec 618 boiler was installed less than 6 months old. We started experiencing no hot water from the 4th month. The only way to have hot water is by having both the heating and hot water switched on together. Given hot weather in the UK last week, we switched off the heating but then found there to be no hot water. Or the alternative way to have hot water is leaving the immersion switch on constantly.

My questions are:
1. Is this correct?
2. Should the immersion switch be on constantly?
3. Must both heater and hot water be switched on together in order to get hot water? We don't need the heater on especially in the summer months.
4. What could be the problem?

Any ideas, please?

Thanks a lot

Margaret

Background
The Valliant boiler located kitchen ground floor is connected to a blue hot water cylinder on the first-floor air cupboard. A new hive system controller.
On installation, whole house new radiators were installed and power flushed, 2 new zone valves plus magnetic filter installed. Both the valiant and hive is brand new. The boiler was installed first. Then the hive was set up afterwards and runs on schedule (e.g. morning 0645am - 0800am) and evening - as not needed during day time as not at home).

From September 2018 to December 2018 - everything was working fine.
January 2019 - there was an airlock
February 2019 - the person replaced a syncron motor on the heating valve
March 2019 - says to keep the immersion on constant
- we switched off heating but then hot water stopped

19/04/2019 - Called British Gas and they replaced the valliant PCB board
23/04/2019 - Valliant attended and looked at Boiler and says no issue with the boiler
24/04/2019 - Still no hot water when heater switched off - British Gas came and can't diagnose the issue.

I wish I kept the existing boiler rather than change to this new valiant with the hive. Everything before was working perfectly until the above.

 

[Scott_D]

Three port valve

 

[AMGasServices]

Welcome just a few things I’d like to ask before What kind of system do you have ?
Please can you also add some pictures.

Thankyou

AMG

 

[Aire]

Agree with Scott, possibly your 3 or 2 port zone valve at fault. The boiler is new but chances are the external controls/valves wasn't changed at the same time

 

[Burger]

Agree with Scott, possibly your 3 or 3 port zone valve at fault. The boiler is new but chances are the external controls/valves wasn't changed at the same time

Think he means 2 or 3 port valve(s)? 😉

 

[Burger]

A brand new valliant ecotec 618 boiler was installed less than 6 months old. We started experiencing no hot water from the 4th month. The only way to have hot water is by having both the heating and hot water switched on together. Given hot weather in the UK last week, we switched off the heating but then found there to be no hot water. Or the alternative way to have hot water is leaving the immersion switch on constantly.

My questions are:
1. Is this correct?
2. Should the immersion switch be on constantly?
3. Must both heater and hot water be switched on together in order to get hot water? We don't need the heater on especially in the summer months.
4. What could be the problem?

Any ideas please?

Thanks a lot

Margaret

Answers to your questions.
1. This is not correct, but an underlying fault.
2. Immersion needs to be switched on for as long as you need hot water and it’s heated.
3. They will be needed to be on if you don’t want to use your immersion heater, but do require hot water.
4. A good few replies already, probably a 3 port mid position valve, if this wasn’t changed at the same time as new boiler.

My questions to you are the same as AMG

 

[Margaret T]

The Valliant boiler located kitchen ground floor is connected to a blue hot water cylinder on the first-floor air cupboard. A new hive system controller.
On installation, whole house new radiators were installed and power flushed, 2 new zone valves plus magnetic filter installed.

 

[Old Account]

The Valliant boiler located kitchen ground floor is connected to a blue hot water cylinder on the first-floor air cupboard. A new hive system controller.
On installation, whole house new radiators were installed and power flushed, 2 new zone valves plus magnetic filter installed.

Have got a couple of pictures for us ?

 

[Aire]

If youve had everything new, then as everything is only 6 months old i would call the engineer back who installed it as it's still under warranty.

 

[Burger]

Have got a couple of pictures for us ?

I think she’s edited the OP and now there’s pics.

 

[AMGasServices]

I’d say the hot water valve is causing the problem.

Replace the valve with a honeywell (they are very robust).

 

[Burger]

It won’t be the cause, but there Should be a strap on the cylinder thermostat.

 

[Aire]

It won’t be the cause, but there Should be a strap on the cylinder thermostat.

Temperatures also set wrong and it's installed in the wrong location

 

[Burger]

That zone valve could be stuck, I’m not keen on those Drayton ones.

 

[Burger]

Temperatures also set wrong and it's installed in the wrong location

Hadn’t seen that in first pic, but mysteriously the strap is on?

 

[Margaret T]

Temperatures also set wrong and it's installed in the wrong location

Thanks, Craig, should the temperature on the boiler be changed? or the thermostat attached to the blue cylinder. If so, what should this read? What's in the wrong location? Thanks a lot.

 

[Margaret T]

If youve had everything new, then as everything is only 6 months old i would call the engineer back who installed it as it's still under warranty.

Yes, everything new, 6 months old, boiler, hive + controls in air-cupboard, zone valves, magnetic filter. I have tried calling the engineer back but not getting any luck and yes the issues occurred from January 2019.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Sounds to me like there's a wiring issue somewhere. I doubt there is anything wrong with the boiler if the heating is working fine, plus the HW works when the CH is on. It's a controls issue such as wiring or fault zone valves.

 

[Aire]

Thanks, Craig, should the temperature on the boiler be changed? or the thermostat attached to the blue cylinder. If so, what should this read? What's in the wrong location? Thanks a lot.

The thermostat attached to the cylinder should be set between 60 and 65°c, and the location of the thermostat should be 1/3 from the base of the cylinder, current it is too close to the base. These minor issues though won't be causing your issues with the hot water.

 

[king of pipes]

Not the best install but nothing obvious from your pictures apart from no auto bypass ? You need a route for the pump overun to circulate and displace the heat in the boiler when the 2 port valves close , you definitely should not need to have the immersion heater on 24 - 7 they are more for a back up should something fail , if I had to diagnose the fault I would start with checking the 2 port valve on the hot water system , check it is motoring open when the cylinder stat temperature is turned up and then down when the hive is in a hotwater call mode ? , next I see on the cylinder primary return has a balancing type valve this may need adjusting or even removing as it maybe the problem better to fit a lockshield type gate valve for balancing ? Few thing there for you to consider Margret . Please post your findings regards. kop

 

[Burger]

Automatic bypass in the boiler according to instructions

 

[Sharp Point]

Automatic bypass in the boiler according to instructions

That block up after a while in a dirty system

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

It is almost certainly a control issue and not a boiler related problem. Was the Hive system installed at the time the boiler was commissioned, or was it added later? I have seen a number of issues where Hive has been added and not wired in correctly, impacting hot water supply (or lack of it).

In my view, the fact that you can get hot water when the heating is on means that it is unlikely to be a valve problem. You have an S plan with two two port valves. To get hot water and heating together (as you describe) both valves must be opening.

My conclusion, is that the control wiring has been inadvertently changed resulting in the two control valves operating in tandem when Central Heating is called, with no operation when only Hot Water is called.

I assume that when you set the system (the boiler) to deliver hot water only the boiler does not fire up. Is that correct?

It is probably a very easy fix - one wire in the the wrong terminal.

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

It is almost certainly a control issue and not a boiler related problem. Was the Hive system installed at the time the boiler was commissioned, or was it added later? I have seen a number of issues where Hive has been added and not wired in correctly, impacting hot water supply (or lack of it).

In my view, the fact that you can get hot water when the heating is on means that it is unlikely to be a valve problem. You have an S plan with two two port valves. To get hot water and heating together (as you describe) both valves must be opening.

My conclusion, is that the control wiring has been inadvertently changed resulting in the two control valves operating in tandem when Central Heating is called, with no operation when only Hot Water is called.

I assume that when you set the system (the boiler) to deliver hot water only the boiler does not fire up. Is that correct?

It is probably a very easy fix - one wire in the the wrong terminal.

Hello, i may recall if correctly, the engineer installed the hive after it was commissioned (im not 100% certain). The hot water schedule runs set time 0645 - 0800; then 1630-2130. Due to no hot water (luke warm), the engineer says to us leave the immersion on constant

 

[SimonG]

Probably a wiring issue from day one but winter masked it.
Nice easy fix for a competent heating guy.

 

[Burger]

Hello, i may recall if correctly, the engineer installed the hive after it was commissioned (im not 100% certain). The hot water schedule runs set time 0645 - 0800; then 1630-2130. Due to no hot water (luke warm), the engineer says to us leave the immersion on constant

Is that Luke warm with heating on or just hot water only?

 

[king of pipes]

Automatic bypass in the boiler according to instructions

Not much use in there bud can't lose any residual heat in the boiler when in pump overun , better to be in the airing cupboard before the controls . Kop

 

[Burger]

Not much use in there bud can't lose any residual heat in the boiler when in pump overun , better to be in the airing cupboard before the controls . Kop

Thanks for that.

 

[Hisham Al-Bizri]

Was your hive fitted with the boiler or after? Is it that it's been wired incorrectly and you haven't noticed due to over winter having the heating on?

 

[Margaret T]

Was your hive fitted with the boiler or after? Is it that it's been wired incorrectly and you haven't noticed due to over winter having the heating on?

the hive was fitted after the engineer installed the boiler. It was all part of the package. When the boiler was up and running, the hive was then set up and run on schedule timings. Greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot

 

[Margaret T]

Is that Luke warm with heating on or just hot water only?

The water is only Luke warm only. ....
So before testing, the water was like warm, the immersion was off and made sure the water was cold where possible.

The hive pressed hot water boost 30 minutes at 25 degrees. Duration of 14 minutes remaining, the water was only Luke warm. And the full 30 minutes, the water was only Luke warm. Felt the pipe work surrounding the hot water cylinder and it was warm / cold. The boiler displayed 75 reading on screen with 1.9 bar.

I also noted when I pressed cancel hot water on the hive, the drayton zone valve - the black clip slides downwards.

Test number 2.
Immersion switch off.
Hive boost both hot water and heat and within 14 minutes, felt the pipe work connect to hot water cylinder heat picking up and gradually 25 minutes very hot. Noted the display on the boiler was 35 with bar 2.4.

Not sure what the issue could be. Tried calling the valliant installer back, but still awaiting to hear back at present.

Any help / advice would greatly appreciate. Thanks a lot.

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

It is almost certainly a control issue and not a boiler related problem. Was the Hive system installed at the time the boiler was commissioned, or was it added later? I have seen a number of issues where Hive has been added and not wired in correctly, impacting hot water supply (or lack of it).

In my view, the fact that you can get hot water when the heating is on means that it is unlikely to be a valve problem. You have an S plan with two two port valves. To get hot water and heating together (as you describe) both valves must be opening.

My conclusion, is that the control wiring has been inadvertently changed resulting in the two control valves operating in tandem when Central Heating is called, with no operation when only Hot Water is called.

I assume that when you set the system (the boiler) to deliver hot water only the boiler does not fire up. Is that correct?

It is probably a very easy fix - one wire in the the wrong terminal.

hello, from your description above, hot water + heating there is hot water, but hot water boost on its own there is none except like warm water. Where would this terminal wire be? Thanks a lot.

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

25 degrees C for hot water is luke warm. Hot water is 50 to 55 degreesC

 

[Burger]

So, if you boost the hot water via hive, could you not have turned down the temperature? I’m not up on hives, but I’m wondering if that has a separate temp control? How do you know it’s 25 degrees?

 

[Margaret T]

So, if you boost the hot water via hive, could you not have turned down the temperature? I’m not up on hives, but I’m wondering if that has a separate temp control? How do you know it’s 25 degrees?

Thanks CBW1982, I note on the hot water cylinder the thermostat is is pointing to 75 degrees; the hive boost shows 25 degrees. British gas came and just turned the hive switch which allows you to adjust to temperature. Will upload photos

 

[Burger]

Thanks CBW1982, I note on the hot water cylinder the thermostat is is pointing to 75 degrees; the hive boost shows 25 degrees. British gas came and just turned the hive switch which allows you to adjust to temperature. Will upload photos

Cylinder stat should be between 60 and 65, anything more and there’s a risk of scalding and scale starts being produced.

 

[Margaret T]

Cylinder stat should be between 60 and 65, anything more and there’s a risk of scalding and scale starts being produced.

Thanks for that, not sure if the installer or British gas turned the cylinder thermostat back up as the very first time when installed it was set at 55 but now looking at the other set of photos it is showing 70?!

Everything was working fine between September 2018 - December 2018. Problems only started to occur from January 2019 when heating switched off.

 

[Burger]

Thanks for that, not sure if the installer or British gas turned the cylinder thermostat back up as the very first time when installed it was set at 55 but now looking at the other set of photos it is showing 70?!

Everything was working fine between September 2018 - December 2018. Problems only started to occur from January 2019 when heating switched off.

View attachment 38371

View attachment 38372

View attachment 38373

Have you tried just turning the dial up when in hot water?

 

[Margaret T]

Have you tried just turning the dial up when in hot water?

I will try this and let you know. Thanks a lot CBW1982.

Should the hot water cylinder be adjusted back to 55 as per the first set up? I never touched this and noticed the changed after.

 

[Burger]

I will try this and let you know. Thanks a lot CBW1982.

Should the hot water cylinder be adjusted back to 55 as per the first set up? I never touched this and noticed the changed after.

I wouldn’t set it to 55, as it can still promote bacteria growth, 60 is probably your best bet (kills the bacteria)

 

[Margaret T]

Not the best install but nothing obvious from your pictures apart from no auto bypass ? You need a route for the pump overun to circulate and displace the heat in the boiler when the 2 port valves close , you definitely should not need to have the immersion heater on 24 - 7 they are more for a back up should something fail , if I had to diagnose the fault I would start with checking the 2 port valve on the hot water system , check it is motoring open when the cylinder stat temperature is turned up and then down when the hive is in a hotwater call mode ? , next I see on the cylinder primary return has a balancing type valve this may need adjusting or even removing as it maybe the problem better to fit a lockshield type gate valve for balancing ? Few thing there for you to consider Margret . Please post your findings regards. kop

Hello King of Pipes, On Friday 26th May 2019, we switched off the immersion and tested with hot water (via the hive using status of 'always on') but to no avail, no hot water. The installer came yesterday (Tuesday 30/04/2019) and looked at the drayton cube and boiler, says can't seem to understand what is the underlying issue. The drayton connected to the hot water pipe next to the hot water cylinder was on 'B' with the black clip at the top lifted upwards.

The two pipes in the kitchen, original newly installed connected the boiler (2 straight - straws) was readjusted to now criss-cross? (see attached photos). Currently, the thermostat attached to the cylinder is set at 70 degrees. Hallway flooring was lifted to find pipe work.

At present, the Central Heating (CH) and Hot Water (HW) are both running, immersion switched off, the drayton valves not attached, all heaters turned down. The hot water pipe in air-cupboard is very hot, and the water is hot.

It seems that when the CH is on together with HW, there is HW and the water flows; but then when the CH is off and HW on only; the hot water reverses flow? Has anyone had this issue before?

Greatly appreciate anyone help?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Riley]

Wow that’s rough

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

You should get whoever installed this back on site. It looks a poor installation from both a design and workmanship perspective.

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

You should get whoever installed this back on site. It looks a poor installation from both a design and workmanship perspective.

Is this fixable? All I want is a working functioning HW and CH. Thanks a lot

 

[Riley]

Of course it’s fixable and if it worked before then it should again. But concerned with the installer swapping pipes over

 

[Margaret T]

Of course it’s fixable and if it worked before then it should again. But concerned with the installer swapping pipes over

The house was formerly a gravity system (the installer says) and now this has been changed. Previously Omyson (Olympic 20/35B or 38/50B wall mounted gas boiler was attached when the house was built. The whole CH and HW was working perfectly fine for the past 20 years with no issue. We changed for more energy efficient to Valiant ecotec and installer recommended ecotec plus18. Since installation, September 2018, all was working fine (CH+HW) on the schedule set - the installer set everything up and we never changed any settings.
January 2019 there was no hot water and the installer said airlock, back up and running
February 2019 - no hot water and the installer replaced the syncron motor
March 2019 - then advised to leave the immersion on constant
April 2019 - we are the current situation
and readjustment made from 2 straight pipes to now criss-cross

not sure what else do to?

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

Apologies, upon rereading, my reply was too blunt.

However, from my understanding, you have a system installed that is less than 6 months old. At the time of handover to you, you believed it worked properly. Oddly, the installation engineer ( or someone after installation) told you to leave the immersion on all the time. That on reflection is the alarm bell that they could not get the hot water to function on a stand alone basis. My interpretation of that was that they had got confused with the wiring when installing Nest. That is probably the case, but I may be wrong.

The pictures of your installation show both poor workmanship and planning of pipework routes. whilst the latter is not a cardinal sin - it shows that the installer at the very minimum did not think through and plan how he /she was going to deliver a quality and visually attractive installation. There does not appear to be a return filter fitted ( which may be a requirement for the Valiant boiler warranty).

The crossed pipes are either a sign of poor installation planning or reversing flow / return post installation.

Whatever the issue, it should be corrected by the installer. I woukd strongly advise you to write to the installer, setting out all the issues and give them 30 days to correct the installation. Thereafter ( assuming you are in England /Wales consider taking the case to the small claims court - it will cost you £55, which is refundable when you get an award. If the installer does not respond to the case, judgement will (in 90% of cases) be in your favour. Enforcing a judgement is quite straightforward

Is it fixable, of course it is, the question is always how much will it cost, to identify the issues and then correct them.

Was the engineer who came this week the original installer or a “new” set of eyes?

 

[Burger]

Margaret,

Apologies, upon rereading, my reply was too blunt.

However, from my understanding, you have a system installed that is less than 6 months old. At the time of handover to you, you believed it worked properly. Oddly, the installation engineer ( or someone after installation) told you to leave the immersion on all the time. That on reflection is the alarm bell that they could not get the hot water to function on a stand alone basis. My interpretation of that was that they had got confused with the wiring when installing Nest. That is probably the case, but I may be wrong.

The pictures of your installation show both poor workmanship and planning of pipework routes. whilst the latter is not a cardinal sin - it shows that the installer at the very minimum did not think through and plan how he /she was going to deliver a quality and visually attractive installation. There does not appear to be a return filter fitted ( which may be a requirement for the Valiant boiler warranty

I know it could still be wrong but I think the Nest was installed by British Gas. She quotes them on page 3 I think

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

Apologies, upon rereading, my reply was too blunt.

However, from my understanding, you have a system installed that is less than 6 months old. At the time of handover to you, you believed it worked properly. Oddly, the installation engineer ( or someone after installation) told you to leave the immersion on all the time. That on reflection is the alarm bell that they could not get the hot water to function on a stand alone basis. My interpretation of that was that they had got confused with the wiring when installing Nest. That is probably the case, but I may be wrong.

The pictures of your installation show both poor workmanship and planning of pipework routes. whilst the latter is not a cardinal sin - it shows that the installer at the very minimum did not think through and plan how he /she was going to deliver a quality and visually attractive installation. There does not appear to be a return filter fitted ( which may be a requirement for the Valiant boiler warranty).

The crossed pipes are either a sign of poor installation planning or reversing flow / return post installation.

Whatever the issue, it should be corrected by the installer. I woukd strongly advise you to write to the installer, setting out all the issues and give them 30 days to correct the installation. Thereafter ( assuming you are in England /Wales consider taking the case to the small claims court - it will cost you £55, which is refundable when you get an award. If the installer does not respond to the case, judgement will (in 90% of cases) be in your favour. Enforcing a judgement is quite straightforward

Is it fixable, of course it is, the question is always how much will it cost, to identify the issues and then correct them.

Was the engineer who came this week the original installer or a “new” set of eyes?

Hello Brambles, thanks for your response. Not at all rude, in terms of the sequence of:

January 2019 - no central heating - Air lock identified and said to turn the black switch at times (visit by the original installer)

February 2019 - no central heating + hot water (visit by the original installer and says to keep on constant)

March 2019 -
- beginning of the month - the original installer installed a shower pump
- mid month - no hot water (visit by original installer said small leak changed red valve)

April 2019
no hot water - visit by a valiant engineer (says nothing wrong with boiler and to contact original installer)
reoccurence no HW - visit by British gas (says replaced PCB and not registering demand)
reoccurence no HW - visit by British gas (says checked valves and cyclinder all clear)
30/04/2019 - visit by the original installer and can't seem to get the hot water to work on its own. Works fine when both CH + HW on together. Pipework in the kitchen changed from two straight pipes to now criss-cross. Says the water was reverse flowing before starting and still remains so even after the criss-cross change? No pipework touched in the hallway where the laminate flooring was laid. This was never touched prior to the installation.

The installer tried testing the CH + HW in 'purge' mode? Not sure what that it is and the issue remains present.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Margaret T]

I know it could still be wrong but I think the Nest was installed by British Gas. She quotes them on page 3 I think

The hive was installed by the original installer because it was all part of the package - valiant boiler + Hive. The boiler was first installed - then the hive was set up after by applying the timing Monday - Sunday schedule run. We work 9-5 so the installer set up the settings on hive. Hope this clarifies.

 

[chris watkins]

Of course it’s fixable and if it worked before then it should again. But concerned with the installer swapping pipes over

& B.Gas who can't sort out simple problems.

 

[Margaret T]

& B.Gas who can't sort out simple problems.

British gas couldnt find the issue?

 

[Brambles]

Margaret

Was the contract to instal the boiler and hive with British Gas?

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret

Was the contract to instal the boiler and hive with British Gas?

No. The installer was obtained from Valiant website [Turn your guarantee up to 10].

I opted for the 10 years guarantee.

 

[Brambles]

where are you based Margaret?

 

[Margaret T]

where are you based Margaret?

London

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

On the positive front, it is good that the original installer is actively engaged in the resolution. Irrespective of achieving success, at least he/ she has the commitment and is trying to resolve the issue.

Switching flow / return without sound logic (when the heating side is functioning ) is puzzling. I am assuming that he/she ( at the time of switching) has not relocated the magnetic filter ( which I recall is adjacent to the hot water cylinder) onto the “new” return, leaving the new boiler unprotected from debris flowing from the system back to the boiler? That is not the end of the world, but demonstrates poor thinking in the act of desperation

If you wish feel free to message me at [email protected]

If you are relatively close, I am happy to look at it for you - to give you a few pointers fir your installer to rectify the problem

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

On the positive front, it is good that the original installer is actively engaged in the resolution. Irrespective of achieving success, at least he/ she has the commitment and is trying to resolve the issue.

Switching flow / return without sound logic (when the heating side is functioning ) is puzzling. I am assuming that he/she ( at the time of switching) has not relocated the magnetic filter ( which I recall is adjacent to the hot water cylinder) onto the “new” return, leaving the new boiler unprotected from debris flowing from the system back to the boiler? That is not the end of the world, but demonstrates poor thinking in the act of desperation

If you wish feel free to message me at [email protected]

If you are relatively close, I am happy to look at it for you - to give you a few pointers fir your installer to rectify the problem

Hello Brambles, the installer was also puzzled when he returned to look at the boiler and the Drayton valves. Also tested and looked at the air vent. Has this happened to anyone before about the HW reverse flowing? Never did we have this with the HW before, it was only after the boiler was changed that we did not have hot water. From above, the criss-cross would this be an issue? I haven't seen such a thing before.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

I cannot see why the installer has reversed the flow on on your system. The issue you have described is that the only problem you have is that you cannot run Hot water without have the Central Heating on.

My view is that either :

The control wiring between the two two port valves and the Hive interface is incorrect.
Or, the micro switch in the two port valve controlling hot water is not functioning ( I think you said that the synchronous motor was changed. The installer may have damaged the micro switch or dislodged the connection in the process.

The only reason to change the pipework configuration that I can think of, is if the installer has fitted the Hot Water two port valve downstream of the Central Heating two port valve. I have seen this before on new installations.

To conclude, to operate a condensing boiler for Hot water only is as simple as it gets, a boiler, two pipes, a valve and an indirect cylinder. Better still you know that the hydraulic circuit works, because it functions when the central heating is on. I would have expected the installer to operate the boiler in this mode upon first use before testing the central heating circuit.

Presumably the installer cleaned the existing central heating system before installing the new boiler? So should have a good understanding of the system pipework layout.

With respect to the crossovers, they should be removed or if deemed to be correct the magnetic filter should be reinstalled on the return immediately before the boiler.

In my view, the actions taken by your installer earlier this week are putting your boiler warranty at risk.

My view has not changed since your problem was first posted. It is not a difficult fix for a competent heating engineer or a plumber with a good knowledge of heating systems - and this is most properly trained experienced plumbers.

On a final point, don’t let him/her take up any more flooring / floor boards - that is just not needed to fix this.

Feel free to share this note with your installer - it may help to focus their mind in the fault finding process.

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

I cannot see why the installer has reversed the flow on on your system. The issue you have described is that the only problem you have is that you cannot run Hot water without have the Central Heating on.

My view is that either :

The control wiring between the two two port valves and the Hive interface is incorrect.
Or, the micro switch in the two port valve controlling hot water is not functioning ( I think you said that the synchronous motor was changed. The installer may have damaged the micro switch or dislodged the connection in the process.

The only reason to change the pipework configuration that I can think of, is if the installer has fitted the Hot Water two port valve downstream of the Central Heating two port valve. I have seen this before on new installations.

To conclude, to operate a condensing boiler for Hot water only is as simple as it gets, a boiler, two pipes, a valve and an indirect cylinder. Better still you know that the hydraulic circuit works, because it functions when the central heating is on. I would have expected the installer to operate the boiler in this mode upon first use before testing the central heating circuit.

Presumably the installer cleaned the existing central heating system before installing the new boiler? So should have a good understanding of the system pipework layout.

With respect to the crossovers, they should be removed or if deemed to be correct the magnetic filter should be reinstalled on the return immediately before the boiler.

In my view, the actions taken by your installer earlier this week are putting your boiler warranty at risk.

My view has not changed since your problem was first posted. It is not a difficult fix for a competent heating engineer or a plumber with a good knowledge of heating systems - and this is most properly trained experienced plumbers.

On a final point, don’t let him/her take up any more flooring / floor boards - that is just not needed to fix this.

Feel free to share this note with your installer - it may help to focus their mind in the fault finding process.

Thanks Brambles for your responses. Much appreciated and all others on here for your reply. Just wanted to rectify whatever the underlying issue.

Yes, he said he replaced a syncron motor on the heating valve. This was done in February 2019. The house had old radiators and boiler. I had changed the whole house radiators (x7) all new, new Valliant boiler + hive controller. In regards to the syncron motor, found it rather odd for them to change in consideration these were newly installed. We didn't have these Drayton valves at all before and not sure why it would need replacing on the 5th month if these were new?

On another note, you mentioned there is no need to lift floorboards, he mentioned that he might have to disconnect the blue HW cylinder and lift the flooring in the air cupboard and see the pipework there? Is this needed? British gas also said the same thing?

At present, I am waiting for his return ...

Thanks.

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

I find this quite odd. Are you sure that the installer of the boiler was aGas Safe registered individual and that the installer of the system (if different) was a a credible plumber?

The issues you describe and the actions being taken just don’t seem credible to me.

On the basis that the boiler is performing properly, any reputable plumber should be able to diagnose (and probably fix) the problem with your hot water on site within 1 to 2 hours.

A good rule of thumb, is to diagnose the problem, think through the solution then get your tools out and implement it. Be very wary of people get their tools out before having thought through what the problem is

 

[Margaret T]

Margaret,

I find this quite odd. Are you sure that the installer of the boiler was aGas Safe registered individual and that the installer of the system (if different) was a a credible plumber?

The issues you describe and the actions being taken just don’t seem credible to me.

On the basis that the boiler is performing properly, any reputable plumber should be able to diagnose (and probably fix) the problem with your hot water on site within 1 to 2 hours.

A good rule of thumb, is to diagnose the problem, think through the solution then get your tools out and implement it. Be very wary of people get their tools out before having thought through what the problem is

Hello Brambles, he was obtained from Valiant website to have a valiant boiler installed, he is also on the gas safety register website.

Upon completion, initially, I did had to chase for the paperwork completion to obtain the 10-year guarantee and received this. (1) buildings regulation compliance gas safety certificate letter from vaillant; (2) buildings regulation certificate of compliance issued by vaillant; (3) Vaillant letter that my 10 years extended guaranteed.

I do recall when British Gas (BG) came on 24/04/2019 (was here for 2.5 hours), BG said might need to lift the flooring in the airing cupboard where the blue HW cylinder sits to see the pipe works but told me to contact the installer. I called for the installer and he came on 30/04/2019 checked the Drayton valves and the black airlock switch, having done the purge manually without using hive and lifting hallway floor boards to look for a T pipe or something, he then went to change the pipes in the kitchen from straight 2 straws to criss-cross. He then tried to test for HW and there was air sound splurging sound, he said the HW was still going in reverse flow. At the last resort, he said he still couldn't understand why the HW is reverse flowing that he then said may need to lift the flooring underneath the hot water cylinder tank in air cupboard.

At present, everything is left on running CH + HW, all radiators turned down and waiting for his return.

Hope this clarifies.
Thanks

 

[Burger]

Hi Margaret, I see in your response to @Brambles that the heating SYNCHRON motor was changed, yet the issue could be the hot water one.

 

[Margaret T]

Hi Margaret, I see in your response to @Brambles that the heating SYNCHRON motor was changed, yet the issue could be the hot water one.

Hello CMW1982, yes, I see on my very first OP on this forum that it was the heating synchron changed and the installer said that to me.

To note, he tried testing hot water by removing and not having the drayton cubes attached/connected to CH pipe and HW pipe. I recall that both B.Gas and himself held the HW drayton cube to their ears. Not sure what they listening to.

By the way, why would the CH Drayton synchron need changing if new and less than 6 months?

 

[Burger]

Hello CMW1982, yes, I see on my very first OP on this forum that it was the heating synchron changed and the installer said that to me.

To note, he tried testing hot water by removing and not having the drayton cubes attached/connected to CH pipe and HW pipe. I recall that both B.Gas and himself held the HW drayton cube to their ears. Not sure what they listening to.

By the way, why would the CH Drayton synchron need changing if new and less than 6 months?

I wouldn’t know on that as things fail for a reason be it poor quality or poor system conditions.

Regarding the listening, they may have been trying to hear the motor turning or even the microswitch.

 

[Burger]

Hi Margaret, are you still in the same scenario?

I’ve just been studying your photo of the cylinder cupboard, and I could be wrong (I am tired)but want to clarify something that’s bugging me. Are you able to photograph the yellowed markups on photo more closely? I want to see if the chrome valve is open, and also where that 15mm pipe tees in. I’m trying to figure out I feel your flow and return are piped up wrong. The Magnaclean states flow of water one way, but it could be another way?

 

[Margaret T]

Hi Margaret, are you still in the same scenario?

I’ve just been studying your photo of the cylinder cupboard, and I could be wrong (I am tired)but want to clarify something that’s bugging me. Are you able to photograph the yellowed markups on photo more closely? I want to see if the chrome valve is open, and also where that 15mm pipe tees in. I’m trying to figure out I feel your flow and return are piped up wrong. The Magnaclean states flow of water one way, but it could be another way?

View attachment 38466

Morning CBW1982, yes, I am still in the same scenario. Please see photograph markups more closely, (these were how they were situated (24/04/2019). The installer, he visited 30/04/2019 and said he will leave them off and they are not hanging on the pipework at present). Thanks a lot.

 

[Brambles]

If I read those photos correctly, the flow is being directed into the DHW tank through both the flow and return connections.

Boiler Flow being directed to the two two port valves (HW and CH) and the magnaclean! HW return connection connected to the Magnaclean on the flow side. Ie. Flow to flow on the HW circuit when the two port valve is opened.

Margaret, I cannot see that this installation has been plumbed in by anyone with basic plumbing or heating engineering experience.

If I include the work undertaken to switch flow and return in one if your earlier posts and your comment that the valve actuators have mbeen left disconnected - it has all the signs of the work being undertaken by someone with a very low level of understanding as to how an S plan system works.

You need a normal plumber to come in and instal the pipework in a conventional manner for an S plan system. Thereafter, to check the connections and commission the Nest controller.

 

[Burger]

Morning Margaret, thanks for the photos. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but as @Brambles has said that looks like it’s been done unprofessionally, (but I think you knew that). It is fixable, but not sure how you go about trying to reclaim costs from your original installer, as if it were me I wouldn’t have him back. There is an isolation valve (chrome valve circled in my edited photo) turned off, and flow is either going backwards from magnetic filter (magnaclean) or the flow comes up to a closed off iso valve and through the return. Either way for this to function as it should then it needs sorting.

 

[Margaret T]

If I read those photos correctly, the flow is being directed into the DHW tank through both the flow and return connections.

Boiler Flow being directed to the two two port valves (HW and CH) and the magnaclean! HW return connection connected to the Magnaclean on the flow side. Ie. Flow to flow on the HW circuit when the two port valve is opened.

Margaret, I cannot see that this installation has been plumbed in by anyone with basic plumbing or heating engineering experience.

If I include the work undertaken to switch flow and return in one if your earlier posts and your comment that the valve actuators have mbeen left disconnected - it has all the signs of the work being undertaken by someone with a very low level of understanding as to how an S plan system works.

You need a normal plumber to come in and instal the pipework in a conventional manner for an S plan system. Thereafter, to check the connections and commission the Nest controller.

Hello Brambles, thanks for the above. Just wanted to mention, in case I typed incorrect, I meant that the installer, he said he will leave the Drayton off and not attached to the pipework (it is dangling down and not 'clipped' onto the CH pipework). Hope this clarifies that part.

 

[Burger]

Hello Brambles, thanks for the above. Just wanted to mention, in case I typed incorrect, I meant that the installer, he said he will leave the Drayton off and not attached to the pipework (it is dangling down and not 'clipped' onto the CH pipework). Hope this clarifies that part.

This is what Brambles means, the Drayton (actuator - plumber/heating engineer terminology) has been disconnected, as in dangling down. You have flow into your cylinder twice, and possibly not going somewhere else as the isolation valve is off. Below is a ‘basic’ principle of how your system should work, however where it is blue, yours is red, and where it is red, yours is red. Hope this makes a bit more sense?

 

[Margaret T]

If I read those photos correctly, the flow is being directed into the DHW tank through both the flow and return connections.

Boiler Flow being directed to the two two port valves (HW and CH) and the magnaclean! HW return connection connected to the Magnaclean on the flow side. Ie. Flow to flow on the HW circuit when the two port valve is opened.

Margaret, I cannot see that this installation has been plumbed in by anyone with basic plumbing or heating engineering experience.

If I include the work undertaken to switch flow and return in one if your earlier posts and your comment that the valve actuators have mbeen left disconnected - it has all the signs of the work being undertaken by someone with a very low level of understanding as to how an S plan system works.

You need a normal plumber to come in and instal the pipework in a conventional manner for an S plan system. Thereafter, to check the connections and commission the Nest controller.

The magnaclean is new and was installed with the new Vaillant boiler. We didn't have this before. Likewise, the 2x Drayton and hive controller all new. Would the criss-cross be an issue and can these be put back to straight straws? Regarding the lifting of floorboards, he said he was looking for 'T pipe' or 'T valve' (I dont fully recall which) but he said was looking for 'T something' which was why the floorboards were lifted and he wanted to find the pipes from the airing cupboard to the where the boiler is situated in the kitchen. I recall the pipework running along the floor (where flooring lifted) the "middle" pipework was hot.

 

[Aire]

This is what Brambles means, the Drayton (actuator - plumber/heating engineer terminology) has been disconnected, as in dangling down. You have flow into your cylinder twice, and possibly not going somewhere else as the isolation valve is off. Below is a ‘basic’ principle of how your system should work, however where it is blue, yours is red, and where it is red, yours is red. Hope this makes a bit more sense?

View attachment 38483

The pic isn't clear but I believe the 15mm coming from the flow before the magna clean is just a bypass which is teed in to the top connection of the 22mm cylinder return.

 

[Burger]

The pic isn't clear but I believe the 15mm coming from the flow before the magna clean is just a bypass which is teed in to the top connection of the 22mm cylinder return.

If you mean the iso valve this appears to be closed. Also there’s another valve (looks like a lockshield) on the return pipe from cylinder. Whatever is wrong with the installation needs correcting.

Margaret, I don’t think re-doing the pipes (straws as you are referring) straight will make a difference.

 

[Aire]

Yeah the lockshied that's closed, to me looks like it should be a bypass, not 2 flow pipes. I'm not sure what that valve on the return is, looks like an old straight radiator valve.

But yes it does want correcting and I think Margaret should bite the bullet and call in another independent engineer.

 

[Burger]

The other angle I was looking at was the direction of flow on the Drayton valves. Should flow from A through to B, but looks incorrect on this set-up.

 

[Aire]

Yep, both the wrong way round by the looks of it, might explain why she's had to have new actuators so soon.

 

[Burger]

Hi Margaret,

I’m not how good they are, or sure if they do the heating/hot water side, but might be worth calling these?

Expert Vaillant Boiler Servicing Repairs. Ex-Vaillant Engineers London

 

[Margaret T]

The other angle I was looking at was the direction of flow on the Drayton valves. Should flow from A through to B, but looks incorrect on this set-up.

View attachment 38484

Hello there, I recall, when I pressed the hive to boost for HW (meaning 'on'), the Drayton on the HW pipe (was on A, and the black clip on the top was upwards popped out heading upwards). But when I clicked cancel HW Boost on the hive, the black on side slided downwards to B, and the top clip also slid downwards. Hope this makes sense as to what I saw.

 

[Margaret T]

This is what Brambles means, the Drayton (actuator - plumber/heating engineer terminology) has been disconnected, as in dangling down. You have flow into your cylinder twice, and possibly not going somewhere else as the isolation valve is off. Below is a ‘basic’ principle of how your system should work, however where it is blue, yours is red, and where it is red, yours is red. Hope this makes a bit more sense?

View attachment 38483

Thanks, CBW1982 for the diagram, would this possibly explain why my water is only lukewarm and not hot? [When immersion switched off and Hive left to run as per the set schedule timer]

 

[Riley]

The valve on the return from the cylinder is to throttle down the cylinder to slow the flow and help with heat transfer

 

[Burger]

Hello there, I recall, when I pressed the hive to boost for HW (meaning 'on'), the Drayton on the HW pipe (was on A, and the black clip on the top was upwards popped out heading upwards). But when I clicked cancel HW Boost on the hive, the black on side slided downwards to B, and the top clip also slid downwards. Hope this makes sense as to what I saw.

Hi Margaret,

It should when on go towards B, then return to A

 

[Burger]

Thanks, CBW1982 for the diagram, would this possibly explain why my water is only lukewarm and not hot? [When immersion switched off and Hive left to run as per the set schedule timer]

It certainly sounds like it

 

[Margaret T]

Hi Margaret,

It should when on go towards B, then return to A

Morning CBW1982, I recall when it was HW was activated for 'on' it was A, and when I clicked cancel on the Hive boost - the Drayton cube slid back down to 'B' and the clip on the top of the cube also went downwards.

 

[Burger]

Morning CBW1982, I recall when it was HW was activated for 'on' it was A, and when I clicked cancel on the Hive boost - the Drayton cube slid back down to 'B' and the clip on the top of the cube also went downwards.

Morning Margaret,

I would say that this is incorrect, and is probably as Craig has said why you needed a new synchron motor in the heating, wouldn’t surprise me if you needed one for the hot water also. It’s obviously been setup wrong, and as difficult as it sounds, I think you need to write off your other engineer and get another one in - maybe one for Citizens Advice? I would also complain to Vaillant as you obtained your engineer from their website - maybe something they could help with?

 

[Aire]

Morning Margaret,

I would say that this is incorrect, and is probably as Craig has said why you needed a new synchron motor in the heating, wouldn’t surprise me if you needed one for the hot water also. It’s obviously been setup wrong, and as difficult as it sounds, I think you need to write off your other engineer and get another one in - maybe one for Citizens Advice? I would also complain to Vaillant as you obtained your engineer from their website - maybe something they could help with?

Definitely complain to vaillant. The engineers on their website the same as Any other only means they have completed one of their training courses. It doesn't actually mean the installer knows what they are doing.

 

[Margaret T]

Definitely complain to vaillant. The engineers on their website the same as Any other only means they have completed one of their training courses. It doesn't actually mean the installer knows what they are doing.

Hello Craig, I remember I called out Vaillant and an engineer visited because of the reoccurring problem. He said it was nothing to do with the boiler and to contact the installer. The Vaillant engineer also said that they are not responsible for the installer even though I told him this person was obtained from their website, the Vaillant male said: "the installer is not employed by them". They are denying responsibility.

I also recall that I asked whether if there are there any other works required for the installation before any works started, and the installer said no and that all prices have been factored in.

Not sure where to go with this. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot, everyone on here.

 

[Aire]

Hello Craig, I remember I called out Vaillant and an engineer visited because of the reoccurring problem. He said it was nothing to do with the boiler and to contact the installer. The Vaillant engineer also said that they are not responsible for the installer even though I told him this person was obtained from their website, the Vaillant male said: "the installer is not employed by them". They are denying responsibility. Not sure where to go with this. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot, everyone on here.

Vaillant themselves aren't responsible for the installs of the independent installers on their website and to be honest, I'm not sure if a complaint will get you anything other than an apology but if it was me, I would still complain as an installer who they have effectively recommended has messed up and is costing you time and possibly money.

 

[Burger]

Hello Craig, I remember I called out Vaillant and an engineer visited because of the reoccurring problem. He said it was nothing to do with the boiler and to contact the installer. The Vaillant engineer also said that they are not responsible for the installer even though I told him this person was obtained from their website, the Vaillant male said: "the installer is not employed by them". They are denying responsibility.

I also recall that I asked whether if there are there any other works required for the installation before any works started, and the installer said no and that all prices have been factored in.

Not sure where to go with this. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot, everyone on here.

Hello Margaret,

As myself and Craig have suggested, still complain to Vaillant because you have an installation that in effect you can’t use correctly. I have replied stating maybe CAB as you have a product that is not fit for purpose.

Thanks,
Chris.

 

[SimonG]

Forget Vaillant, the boilers fine and although you obtained the installers info off of their website they won't give a monkeys. They should do though, and remove the installer, but it will be of no concern to them.
Write a letter, recorded delivery, to the installer. Outline the issues and state if you do not receive within 7 days a definitive way forward to correct the install then you will have no option but to employ somebody to correct the installation at their expense.
No more phone calls only letters.

 

[Margaret T]

Forget Vaillant, the boilers fine and although you obtained the installers info off of their website they won't give a monkeys. They should do though, and remove the installer, but it will be of no concern to them.
Write a letter, recorded delivery, to the installer. Outline the issues and state if you do not receive within 7 days a definitive way forward to correct the install then you will have no option but to employ somebody to correct the installation at their expense.
No more phone calls only letters.

Hello SimonG, wanted to ask, I have an invoice from British Gas for their attendance to the house to look at the hot water issue (as the original installer was not available at the time when contacted). British gas came and he replaced the PCB board but I've been charged for this work, in consideration feel rather unfair with the additional charge when the boiler was newly installed?

 

[Aire]

I don't have many run ins when it comes to boilers under warranty but it is my understanding that if any individual other than the manufacturers attempt a repair, does it not void the warranty?

 

[SimonG]

Hello SimonG, wanted to ask, I have an invoice from British Gas for their attendance to the house to look at the hot water issue (as the original installer was not available at the time when contacted). British gas came and he replaced the PCB board but I've been charged for this work, in consideration feel rather unfair with the additional charge when the boiler was newly installed?

Should have got Vaillant, it was under warranty. Would probably think it didn't even need a pcb board, but I would imagine that ship has sailed.

I always say to my customers with a new boiler, any issues phone me first, if I'm unavailable then phone the manufacturer as it's under warranty.

 

[Margaret T]

Hello, would like your opinion please. The original installer last visited on 30/04/2019 and he said would return after changing the two straw pipes to criss-cross. Before he left, the immersion was switched off, the CH left to run which gave us HW, the Drayton was not clipped onto the CH pipe but the HW did have Drayton attached. He also said to not use the hive. So my assumption is that everything was left 'on' running? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Over this time period, we had HW. However, CH was a bit weird. On 08/05/2019, we closed off the CH via using the hive in the evening. But in the morning the radiators were on and very hot. Having checked the hive, the status was off, but it stopped working late on.

Has anyone had this sort of problem?

Thanks a lot to those who previous replied to my post. I feel lost and not sure what to do.

 

[Margaret T]

I don't have many run ins when it comes to boilers under warranty but it is my understanding that if any individual other than the manufacturers attempt a repair, does it not void the warranty?

Hello Craig, thanks for your response. I did contact the installer on four previous occasions which he attended and the following was addressed:

1. The first visit, air lock in the system and told us to if happen again to turn the black lever in the airing cupboard;
2. The second visit replaced the syncron motor on the heating valve;
3. The third visit advised to keep the immersion on constant;
4. The fourth visit said found a small leak and replaced the red wheelie.

Thereafter, the fourth visit, the HW remained an issue.

The bank holiday approached, we tried to contact the original installer but he was not available and as am sure with anyone, having cover on the CH and HW, British G was booked in. I hope this clarifies as to the above?

Thanks.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

It's quite clear you've got a control issue and an engineer who doesn't know what he's doing. You need to get a new professional in to sort out the situation.

To be honest I don't know why you'd get BG out when it's a new install and it's obvious it's something wrong with the new install and not the existing system. You should have pushed the original installer.

BG shouldn't have replaced the PCB when it wasn't at fault at all and really should refund you for this as the issue you called them out to is still occurring. However I doubt you'd get any money out of them when it becomes evident that the installation is wrong.

As for criss crossing the pipes (Which looks dreadful!), is the flow and return now the right way round? To check this look on your motorised valve on the cylinder (The white drayton box) which will have an A & B on the brass body. Turn the system on from cold and the hot water should flow from A to B on the motorised valve. If it doesn't then something is wrong. (So the top pipe going into the side of the cylinder should get hot before the bottom pipe).

 

[Aire]

Hi Margaret, I feel the best course of action for you to do now is contact another installer. Do a little research and find a competent one. Ask the installer to come round and investigate what's wrong with your system, and write a list of all that he feels is wrong and roughly how much it will cost to put right. Once you have this info, write a letter to your original installer stating that you have had another installer look at the installation and inform him what is wrong and how much you have been quoted to put it right. Tell him you will allow him upto 7 days to come back and correct his work, and that if he doesn't respond or again fails to get your system working properly, you will be getting the other installer back and you will then seek to claim back the cost of this additional work. As mentioned previously by Simon, Do this by recorded delivery, you will then know and have proof that your installer has received the letter.

 

[Brambles]

Margaret,

If we trawl back through this problem, from my perspective it comes back to two issues:

From the photographs you have provided, it looks as if the pipework installation is sending a flow to both the flow and return terminals of the indirect hot water tank.

It also appears that the two port valves and possibly the Hive controller have been installed in correctly.

Both of the above give a clear indication that the installer of the system was inept and probably not competent.

To correct this situation you require a reputable plumber, to survey the system and to give you a priced proposal to modify the current installation into a fully working S Plan system.

At that point you can then decide how to proceed to get you system operating properly and (just as importantly) how to recover the additional money you have already spent and will need to spend to rectify the problem.

If the sum is large enough, you should consider giving the original installer one opportunity to correct the installation, thereafter engage a competent plumber and recover your costs through the small claims court.

Which ever route you take, to recover your costs, you need to establish a clear base line ( in the form if a short, but detailed report) now of what is wrong with the installation and how much it will cost to correct. It is equally important to establish a base line to preserve the warranty that you believe you have for the Vailient Boiler. By allowing people (BG) to tinker will a newly installed boiler, you are putting that warranty at risk

It may be that you household insurance policy will provide legal cover to assist in your claim.

I feel sorry for you with British Gas and I think that you should challenge them on the basis that they fitted a part that was not needed. However, if you call people in on an adhoc basis you need to recognise that they are going to charge for their time.

When I first read you post, I interpreted it as a control issue - they are generally a simple fix ( either correcting the wiring or replacing a faulty part). Once you provided photographs of the pipework around the hot water cylinder, it became apparent that the pipework has been installed incorrectly - this is a more expensive fix. It is also harder to interpret system behaviour, when the pipework is fundamentally wrong. I am surprised that you have ever managed to get hot water with the cylinder piped in that way

At the end of the day a system like yours is a very common straight forward installation - it is not complex and is fixable, once the scope of work required to do so is established.

Hopefully the above will help you to establish a clear and successful way forward.

 

[Margaret T]

Thanks all. Can the criss-cross pipes (originally two straws) be put back to normal? It was unexpected and an eyesore just as you walk into the kitchen! Why would this be changed to criss-cross anyway? Can this be put back to normal? Seems like decoration with two straight straws at the top, then twidles criss-cross towards the bottom then goes back to normal.

The installer was previously with BG and 13 years experience as displayed/advertised on Valiant website.

 

[Burger]

The installer was previously with BG and 13 years experience as displayed/advertised on Valiant website.

😱😱😱😱

Can the criss-cross pipes (originally two straws) be put back to normal? - yes they can, but it needs to be done correctly and checked for correct operation. As we have said, it’s fixable, but needs doing by someone who should know what they’re doing.

I had an ex BG service my boiler (before I could) and I wasn’t impressed with what he’d left - a boiler that was condensing into the casing and a high PPM reading in the flue analyser.