We have a leak in a central heating pipe under the tiled floor in our downstairs bathroom. The water was seeping up through the floor. I called a plumber and he lifted the tiles and dug to reveal the pipe and find the leak. He has repaired the leak using compression joints (also repaired larger 28mm pipe which he punctured when digging), which he says are more reliable than soldering, but we have had constant leaks from each pipe every time the water is turned back on. Water is now off and boiler not working, so he is due back today. I have researched and found that compression joints should not be used under concrete and joints should be soldered. I also read pipes should be protected with Denso tape, but he says they need no protection. He is also going to fill the hole with rapid set tiling adhesive before refitting the tiles. Am I right to be worried?
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- Thread starter Sylvergrunge
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Not heard from plumber number 3 yet, so have ordered Jenolite. Thought I would try amalgamating tape as a short term til Jenolite gets here. It isn't pretty but it has certainly stalled the leak a bit, which is something. At least I might get a full (albeit cold) nights sleep tonight without having to wake up and hoover up water!
- May 23, 2015
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- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
Looks like it is holding for a minute ( just a tiny puddle under in the past 2 hours, although the heating isn't on so not under pressure. The issue is where the leak is. Right on the internal bend so hard to clip, or do anything to!
- Jun 28, 2007
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I see. You can't solder because the pipe is in a dip and therefore full of water. You seem to have got it reasonably clean so adhesive now seems possible.
Surely a plumber could take up a further tile to the left of the gas pipe, run a new passover OVER the pipe and, while it will be messy, the urgency will be taken out of the situation. Or bypass the pipework somehow, clip a new section along the wall? Although I am aware the difficulty seems to be finding the plumber.
As for the rubber/jubilee clip idea, I think it might be a good one, but perhaps if you can get some twistable wire that won't snap as soon as you try to twist it, that might be easier than the Jubilee given the poor access. If you do try again with sealant, a clip or wire on top could be a good idea. But if tape is working...
Surely a plumber could take up a further tile to the left of the gas pipe, run a new passover OVER the pipe and, while it will be messy, the urgency will be taken out of the situation. Or bypass the pipework somehow, clip a new section along the wall? Although I am aware the difficulty seems to be finding the plumber.
As for the rubber/jubilee clip idea, I think it might be a good one, but perhaps if you can get some twistable wire that won't snap as soon as you try to twist it, that might be easier than the Jubilee given the poor access. If you do try again with sealant, a clip or wire on top could be a good idea. But if tape is working...
I have the Jenolite and am currently draining the system (typically the leak is at the very lowest point of the entire system so it is taking a while!
In the meantime I thought I would swap out an old valve on an old radiator for a thermostatic one, but it looks like I have ancient ones and they are way smaller than any I can find online. Any suggestions as to what I can do/where I can find small ones?
In the meantime I thought I would swap out an old valve on an old radiator for a thermostatic one, but it looks like I have ancient ones and they are way smaller than any I can find online. Any suggestions as to what I can do/where I can find small ones?
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If I knew you could drain the system and dry out the leaking joint somewhat I would've suggested you use some JB Weld epoxy. Make a small saturated fabric wrap with it and wrap the joint but ideally you have to leave it for 24hrs to cure and ideally has to be dry with no back pressure from any water.
For a start that's the lockshield valve, so you should probably be looking at changing the other one (the wheelhead valve)*. Secondly, you're measuring it wrong. Inside that big nut will be a hexagonal recess for a kind of large Allen key designed for removing radiator valve tails. The type of connexion your radiator has is now less common, so you'll need to wind out the whole valve tail which will screw into the radiator. The radiator itself finishes flush. You probably won't see the joint, because the tail has been painted over heavily.
Concerned you may be slightly out of your depth, but I suppose if you want to learn, it's not a bad place to start. Worst case scenario is you have to blank off the radiator pipe for a while and remain one radiator down - so if you aren't competent with fitting a compression stopend correctly first, buy a number of copper olives and a couple of compression stopends in 15mm size (will also work on 1/2") then you can practice on a scrap bit of pipe connected to a hose.
*I say probably because most TRVs can be fitted to either the flow or return of the radiator - some are directional, so you need to check the arrow on the body and make sure you fit it so it points in the direction of water flow which might mean you HAVE to fit it where the current lockshield valve is. Usually the lockshield valve will be on the return - the cooler end of the radiator.
Sorry, I know I put the wrong end in the pic. It was just easier ro show measurement on that end as I had just drained that rad from that end, and both sides are same valve length.
I appreciate your honesty saying I am out of my depth. I will happily try my hand at most things, but always happy to call in the experts if it is above me. Hence asking here first 😊 I'll just wait until I can finally get hold of an available local plumber and add it on to my jobs list for them 😆
So, system drained. Pipe cleaned and sanded. Jenolite applied. Left to cure for a day and system refilled and sentinel leak sealer added. Heating and water put back on this evening. New leak spotted (other end of the same fixing) and quickly plugged with Jenolite and wrapped in Amalgamating tape. Old leak still active and back to its old tricks. I could cry 😔
You've got the pipe doing that for you though 🙂
It is seriously surprising how hard it is to hold back water even at a low pressure. I once tried to mend a stolen joint on a private supply that had only a few metres' head from the stream inlet to the joint by using some non-elastic denim pasted in silicone to seal the joint, a wrapping of old inner tube to cover the fabric, and then a wire binding to hold it all together and take the strain of the water pressure. I was convinced it would work, but it totally didn't. This wasn't a paid job, please note. I still need to learn the subtle art of bodging... some people can do stuff like this and have it last 30 years!
This is how every plumber learns. (Not the tape and leak sealer bit, the bit where you do your best and really think you've got it sorted and it goes and leaks somewhere else)
It is hard.
I was convinced it had worked as was all bone dry for a while, then it found a pathway and boom!!!
I am normally a pretty good bodger, but plumbing is beyond me. I take my hat off to you guys.
We are at the point of calling in British Gas to put in a whole new system (combi boiler to get rid of the tank and the need for this stupid pipe) and bypass all the floor pipes completely. I am so done with this leak. My carpets are damp as it is now seeping up through the concrete floor in the hallway too 😔
Sorry to hear that, can be hit or miss with these resins. Start over, do as you did with your prep making sure it's clean and dry. JB Weld will do it now you know where your leaks are. Make an impregnated wrap with the epoxy and wrap the fitting, stipple it with a brush or use gloves to apply. I 've used this a few times with no failures as long as it can dry cure.
Edit: fair enough but it still might be a while before you can get your system replaced but sound like you have other leaks too.
Edit: fair enough but it still might be a while before you can get your system replaced but sound like you have other leaks too.
How do I get the jenolite off now though? It is set rock solid and wrapped around the pipe!
Do you have home insurance ? Leakage of pipework and damage to your property should be covered ?? I would go with your gut and get it replaced, when plumbing start to deteriorate and leaks occur you will find even if you solve one problem water will find the next weak point and your back to square one, patches and resins are only a temporary repair in my book. Kop
If it were me I'd probably go at it with a Dremel or pliers but if you can't get the resin off without further trashing the pipe then the only thing I can suggest is apply it over the top and hope. None of this is satisfactory of course, replacement of pipe or complete system renewel is best as you have concluded.
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