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lead and asbestos in the same sentence somes it up for me.

im afraid i'm one of the plumbers who has never done sheet lead work, it looks pretty on roof's but in plumbing i just like to rip it out wherever its found.

just me being biased on the theme again, and i do admire the skill involved, i just cant see the future in it, especially teaching it in colleges!

shaun
 
I have found that if you have the knowledge to work on lead pipe to open it up for a branch, or work a knuckle bend, you have more than enough knowledge to apply the same methods and techniques to copper tube

The same applies to lead sheet, to a certain extent when working different metals for roof work, be it copper, zinc or aluminium, if you know how to set out and develop, the weathering upstand for a pipe passing through a roof to make the opening watertight, the principles are just the same whatever the metal used

If you cannot do these simple things you cannot be called a plumber, just a pipe fitter
 
i can see what your saying plousane, just for me i'd call a pro roofer in to sort that out, my plumbing problems are complicated enough without having to worry about the how the lead welding looks under the soil pipe. im not a glazier either.!!

just a plumber, making my life as simple as possible

shaun
 
Yes Plouasne mine was on a brewery boiler stack, if I remember right it was a corrugated asbestos roof as well.

I must admit, although I don't like lead work, but having been an employed Plumber you don't get to pick and choose your jobs very often, so if your given a lead job you have to get on with it, its what you get paid for. And professionalism means you have to make as good a job as your skills allow. Being fair, there isn't really a substitute yet for its shape adaptability.

The likes of Nuralite look terrible after a few years. And copper is hardly ever used.

Its more green mineral felt for large roofs instead of bays and rolls though.

I think people may think lead is going out of use, but a trip down any UK building site still shows plenty of lead flashings and bays are still going up. The green lobby have a point though on its damage to the environment, which makes me think that the minute anything does come along it will be replaced pretty quick
 
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Plouasne i thought you would be the first to remind every body that "plumber" from the Latin and French means worker of lead. I would support the comments on regarding knowledge craft and skill associated with forge bendin, sand loading, joint wiping, bossing etc. 40 years after practising sand loading black iron for bending, i adapted the principal on 110 mm plastic soil (using warm sand) to over come a problem. Our skill evolve not much is brand new.
 
Just lead

I agree with you its the use of your head and the adoption of what you have been taught when using the old materials, to do the same with new materials, but if the youngsters have not been taught how to work with the old materials how are they going to know what to do when it comes to something slightly out of the normal run of work

Bernie,

Have a look at this link below sorry mate, its all in French, but click on to Fiches Techniques, and see how the French plombiers do lead work, most is just about the same as a UK plumber would do the work and some is completely different, and not much "cop" in my opinion, but to get to the "Greens" the producers of the lead sheet are claiming Green credentials, because the lead can be re-cycled back into lead again, also the Zinc over here has both a certain amount of copper (WHAT copper and ZINC do not mix😀) and Titanium in the Zinc, and it lasts, also its almost as soft as lead to fold, rather like the four nines super purity aluminium sheet, that was used in the UK [ I made some dormer cheeks out of the 4 9's stuff, and polished it, did it shine, when the sun hit it, almost blinding]

The link might be of interest to Just Lead as well

Le Plomb Francais Filiale du Groupe Eco-Bat Technologies PLC, 1er producteur mondial de plomb - Accueil

Also click on to Produits, and look at Plomb coule a sable (sand cast lead), and Plomb S M H Special Momument Historique, (special lead for historic buildings) there they show a photo of an historic building re-roofed with 150 tonnes of this lead, the roof was done in 2004

The company will do "stages" training for learning how to work with lead
 
Thanks for the post. i have in fact worked for the Information De plomb. I was asked to do a Tour De France demonstrating welding skills at collages and companions in the N,S,E and West of France. and i must say it was one of the most enjoyable and intresting times of my life.
 
Thanks for the post. i have in fact worked for the Information De plomb. I was asked to do a Tour De France demonstrating welding skills at collages and companions in the N,S,E and West of France. and i must say it was one of the most enjoyable and intresting times of my life.

I bet that you were well looked after, by the Companions ( a brief description of a Companion de France for the people who do not know what a Companion is, like the old journeyman trades person, who did a tour of France learning even more of their trade after an apprenticeship, before settling down in one place) with plenty of wine as well🙂, did you know that the top apprentice plumber of France, a couple of years ago was not French born but UK born, who went to France as a child, it put a slight crimp in Jacques tail when he was introduced to the then President of France😀
 
Hi again.
Couple more interesting facts about lead.
Sheet lead was first used by the Normans.
Lead tiles go back 2,000 years and were used by the romans.
lead was first used 7,000 years ago to contain water ( plumbing)
and to prevent water penetration ( roofing)
Just goes to show the cross over between the two trades (lead sheet and
lead pipe) goes back a long way
 
Hi Ken to add to you facts. It has been thought that the fall of the Roman empire may have been brought about by the fact that the Roman wine maker discovered that lead carbonate (The white powder that forms on the surface) was sweet. They collected with a Roman dust pan and brush and used to fortify their wine. The wine was only available to the ruling classes, who over a relatively short period of time lost the plot and the society collapsed. I bet there are a few plumber on here that have been through the same trip. Not to mention our politicians. Good Luck
 
Throw away your lead working kit - no plumbers do sheet lead now anyway (apart from those 100 year old ones!!!)

Waste of time . . .
 
real plumbers can still do lead work and make a good living out of it ,i can i do and i can do all the new stuff like ,heat pumps ,solar,the use of plastic plumbing etc and i clip all my plastic plumbing properly but then i am a dinasour.not quite a 100 but still able to outwork and out think most young plumbers .do you know avatar if you carry on so stresed you will not live long anougth to be an old plumber all you posts are full of vitriol for older plumbers why???
 
real plumbers can still do lead work and make a good living out of it ,i can i do and i can do all the new stuff like ,heat pumps ,solar,the use of plastic plumbing etc and i clip all my plastic plumbing properly but then i am a dinasour.not quite a 100 but still able to outwork and out think most young plumbers .do you know avatar if you carry on so stresed you will not live long anougth to be an old plumber all you posts are full of vitriol for older plumbers why???

Dave,

Could the reason be for the diatribe that some of the posters are coming out with, is that they cannot do lead work in the first place
 
it is a shame realy but most of the new breed of plumbers cant do lead work,they may think its old hat but lead roofing is makeing a comeback because of its durability.its allways nice to have other areas of expertice to help you stay in work.but i feel avatar has had a bad experience with an older plumber somewhere.or is it that he feels anyone who qualified before him is just not up to it,but then he seems to know best what is rite for all of us ,perhaps he used to be a social worker
 
Hi! Plouasne,

Had a look at the site and it seems good.

The UK one is "The Lead Sheet Association" and the "copperboard" for copper roofing. They have both got interesting information on.

You know the new guys seem rather constricted in the work they can take on, it must be hard for them to make a living only doing bits and pieces.

I don't think anybody quite knows the extent of a Plumbers work. I've been required when installing urinal slabs, to work in toilets without tiles and no set levels, requiring me to set the levels which would eventually correspond with the tile patterns.

I don't suppose it occurs to most people that a Plumber has to know about tiling.

Moving on from there, what about roof constructions? How about having to work out the slate or tile cuts and then cut and fit them, when repairing or replacing lead or other valleys?

The whole area of Plumbing covers all kinds, in point you have virtually got to know how to construct a building from top to bottom. Lead D.P.C are not thrown in they have to be placed in according to the brickwork.

How about electronics and electric?

How about floor construction.

Then the art of making good your work.

How about glazing?

I suppose you could fill a book with what a Plumber is supposed to know about things people don't usually think of as Plumbing?
 
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you can tell a plumber by size of tool bag ,all over trades just their own tools we have ours and everyone elses tools in our bag
 
Hi! Plouasne,

Had a look at the site and it seems good.

The UK one is "The Lead Sheet Association" and the "copperboard" for copper roofing. They have both got interesting information on.

You know the new guys seem rather constricted in the work they can take on, it must be hard for them to make a living only doing bits and pieces.

I don't think anybody quite knows the extent of a Plumbers work. I've been required when installing urinal slabs, to work in toilets without tiles and no set levels, requiring me to set the levels which would eventually correspond with the tile patterns.

I don't suppose it occurs to most people that a Plumber has to know about tiling.

Moving on from there, what about roof constructions? How about having to work out the slate or tile cuts and then cut and fit them, when repairing or replacing lead or other valleys?

The whole area of Plumbing covers all kinds, in point you have virtually got to know how to construct a building from top to bottom. Lead D.P.C are not thrown in they have to be placed in according to the brickwork.

How about electronics and electric?

How about floor construction.

Then the art of making good your work.

How about glazing?

I suppose you could fill a book with what a Plumber is supposed to know about things people don't usually think of as Plumbing?

Bernie,
Please do not talk to me about setting out for tiling, before the tiles were in place, I still have nightmares about setting out a Wade floor gully, and Barbican built into the wall wash hand basins, on the Barbican, there all you had was the rough concrete plus a "Datum" (any new boy knows what a datum is ??, no cheating and looking it up in wikipedia), to set out every thing from, there were no cut tiles in the room allowed, joints in the floor tiles follow the wall tiles, finished job looked bl00dy 'oribal just like a 4" square net had been placed over every thing

I used to have the then CDA booklets also the LDA books, still look at them at times via the web this time

Did you click on to this link as well, and the pictures to bring up the detailed drawings, one of the few things both sides of the channel agree on, on how it should be done
Le Plomb Francais Filiale du Groupe Eco-Bat Technologies PLC, 1er producteur mondial de plomb - Pour l'habitat ...

I did do a lead DPC on a couple of jobs for Cornwall C C, plus quite a bit of lead work for flat roofs and flashings, one that comes to mind was an architectural feature ??, what a co ck up, imagine a steel framed building, brick clad with a roof recessed at 45°between the top of the ground floor window and the first floor slab, along one side of the building for about 60 feet in length, all lead covered with "slates" to go around the steel uprights, supposed to be lead burnt, only thing wrong was that the steel had to be painted in intumisscent (sp) paint first, we were allowed to use a double lock welt at the back of the slate with the sole of the slate "burnt" to the lead covering, we must have been doing something right, because when my mate told the architect to get his big feet off the rolls of the roof he was standing on, both he and the C of W apologised
The building was a bit of a farce in other ways as well, somebody did not check the drawings before being issued to site and steel frame maker, because the steel uprights came straight in front of opening windows in some places, in other places it was the sway braces, levels were all out as well, the steel stanchion bases were at finished floor level, instead of being at sub base level

Electrics, I wonder how many check that nice plastic water main they are going to cut in to, is an actual water main and not some bodged sparks electrical conduit

Flooring, I was on a timber frame job once all floor were of the cassette type, made in a factory, and craned into place, could not lift the ply flooring to get the 1" flow and return in from a solid fuel boiler on the ground floor to the cylinder on the first floor, C of W gave written instructions to notch the under side of the joists (I made sure that the instruction was in writing before I did any notching of the joists, [that's called covering your back]), every dammed pipe in a block of 6 houses looked like a sparge pipe after the plasterboard tackers had finnished

Glazing, well I got the sack for this, and black listed, I was told to go and fit a sheet of Georgian wired glass to a roof of a conservatory, by my self, when I asked how big the sheet was they said 8 x 4 I said inches that's OK, No they said feet, that's when I told them that I would put it in with the lump hammer I had in my hand, straight through the middle of it. I got work with another firm about a month later the supervisor turned up on site said to the site agent that he had stacks of work did not know where to turn for plumbers saw me and said you, your finished, I asked anything wrong with my work?, no just don't want you, your a trouble maker
 
sparge pipes try not to confuse people. who could tell you what one was ,youl be talking of spruse-thrower pass-over units next
 

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