gas cooker

[gaspastemania]

I put it down to the grey areas that exist within the gas industry .

 

[CES]

Reading back I would agree its probably better to move it over to the GSR forum.

 

[gaspastemania]

i dont follow your logic saying you dont need CKR1 to fit hobs to solid pipe (and i bet you dont have an email confirming this, and i bet you even more you cant get one tomorrow) as you can read about clearances and ventilation in the MI, do you have HTR1 or do you connect fires to rigid pipe and read about ventilation in the MI's

It was a conversation over an issue with a hob to gsr tech helpline about two years ago.

 

[kirkgas]

It was a conversation over an issue with a hob to gsr tech helpline about two years ago.

apologies for banging on about it, but i can categorically state you cannot fit a hob with CCN1 ticket, so the conversation you had with GSR must have got confused and i can also tell you categorically that IF you fit a hob without CKR1 and something goes wrong and you quote a phone call from 2yrs ago as your defence in court you will get slaughtered, i appreciate you have taken this advice from GSR in good faith (as you should) but it is wrong, i spoke to CORGI inspectors yrs ago about technical advice issues and they said one of the biggest problems was making sure they understood what the caller meant, and to be sure that they got the right info across, but were very wary of emailing advice in case it was taken out of context

 

[gaspastemania]

apologies for banging on about it, but i can categorically state you cannot fit a hob with CCN1 ticket, so the conversation you had with GSR must have got confused and i can also tell you categorically that IF you fit a hob without CKR1 and something goes wrong and you quote a phone call from 2yrs ago as your defence in court you will get slaughtered, i appreciate you have taken this advice from GSR in good faith (as you should) but it is wrong, i spoke to CORGI inspectors yrs ago about technical advice issues and they said one of the biggest problems was making sure they understood what the caller meant, and to be sure that they got the right info across, but were very wary of emailing advice in case it was taken out of context

i am not fitting hobs nor cookers as dont have ticket and reason never done the ticket is because doesnt seem to be much money it where i live. As for tech advice or with gsr lack of tech advice then if they arnt capable of giving clear cut answers then they are only confusing the issue thenmselves and should only email clear cut answers.
L:ike i said earlier if a home owner can connect/disconnect a cooker then why should they have to be gsr to take boiler cover off?? Different story if its invasive gas work yes but to take a cover off ??

 

[REDSAW]

have on site yes , my own works no as cant be bothered .hence why never bothered with cooker ticket .

correct me if i miss read this but if you aint got the ticket and you have fitted cookers on site then its a bit of a no no?. no.

 

[gaspastemania]

Depends how you read it,
Have worked all over the country and there are guys on most sites i have worked on installing boilers,hobs,cookers,gas pipe work and dont have a gas ticket to their name. However thier is a commissioning guy who will come oout and commission all appliances installed ,it also works same way with unvented cylinders.
Normally on site there will be a gas certified op but doesnt mean those works stop if theyu go sick or on holiday.Correct me if i am wrong but if their is a gas op on site then the theory goes he is over seeing the work (even tho it is a technacality) of the installs. Besides i have also seen gas safe ops who iwouldn't trust to fix a stand off clip never mind install commission any form of appliance.

 

[REDSAW]

find it hard to understand that. your saying that the regs are being broke on a large scale then?.
i mean, the work can only be supervised if monitored from start to finish and the relevant ticket holder has not left the side of the installer?.

 

[gaspastemania]

Saying exactly that !!!
I have worked on many new builds where guys dont have any gas experience what so ever and yet are installing boilers and hobs .
i worked with a guy that never had any gas experience at all yet had a u gauge and would test to what he thought was the method of a tt.
I worked for a large company ( no names) a few years ago that had a guy on site installing boilkers and hobs and was only third year apprentice . Like i said have worked all over and yes this goes on at a rather large scale.

 

[tamz]

find it hard to understand that. your saying that the regs are being broke on a large scale then?.
i mean, the work can only be supervised if monitored from start to finish and the relevant ticket holder has not left the side of the installer?.

It is done big time Red. All within the rules. Some of the bigger outfits may only have one or 2 registered guys.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Saying exactly that !!!
I have worked on many new builds where guys dont have any gas experience what so ever and yet are installing boilers and hobs .
i worked with a guy that never had any gas experience at all yet had a u gauge and would test to what he thought was the method of a tt.
I worked for a large company ( no names) a few years ago that had a guy on site installing boilkers and hobs and was only third year apprentice . Like i said have worked all over and yes this goes on at a rather large scale.

have seen it too

 

[REDSAW]

wo! that may explain the job i did on saturday then. in the book it states 'installed by' (the company) and commissioned by (independent) yet there was a 48mb standing pressure and the boiler has never been touched since installed in new build 2 years ago?.
this explains a lot of the 'iffy' work i have seen around then.


what can be done about it?.

 

[tamz]

what can be done about it?.

Nothing much as they are supposedly working under the supervision and direction of the qualified guy. Much like having an apprentice or trainee with you.
It is in the qualified guys interest to make sure things are done right as he is the one signing it off and any faults he takes the rap.

 

[REDSAW]

Nothing much as they are supposedly working under the supervision and direction of the qualified guy. Much like having an apprentice or trainee with you.
It is in the qualified guys interest to make sure things are done right as he is the one signing it off and any faults he takes the rap.

cheep labor rules profit is king then?.

 

[tamz]

As usual that is what most things come down to.

 

[kirkgas]

Depends how you read it,
Have worked all over the country and there are guys on most sites i have worked on installing boilers,hobs,cookers,gas pipe work and dont have a gas ticket to their name. However thier is a commissioning guy who will come oout and commission all appliances installed ,it also works same way with unvented cylinders.
Normally on site there will be a gas certified op but doesnt mean those works stop if theyu go sick or on holiday.Correct me if i am wrong but if their is a gas op on site then the theory goes he is over seeing the work (even tho it is a technacality) of the installs. Besides i have also seen gas safe ops who iwouldn't trust to fix a stand off clip never mind install commission any form of appliance.

apologies if im now misreading what you have said in different posts, in one you said you have had clarification by phone that YOU v=can and HAVE fitted hobs on site under a CCN1 ticket, and then in another you have said you dont fit them, sorry if if i am confusing issues but just for me:
a) you HAVE fitted hobs on site on a CCN1 ticket (after getting phone confirmation from CORGI/GSR), or
b) you HAVE NOT done the above
re the later points you make about a load of guys doing gas work with one guy signing all the work off,i KNOW this goes on but i also know that it is 100% illegal, there is a world of difference to plumber fitting gas unsupervised and getting the gas guy along on a friday to sign it off, to a plumber and gas guy working on the same gas job with both being there 100% of the time to allow the plumber to work under 1 to 1 supervision while buliding a portfolio of evidence, sorry to keep the thread going, but i was clear on what you were doing (although i stand by my statement that it is wrong) now i dont know if you are changing what you said you done before or im just stupid or both

 

[kirkgas]

Depends how you read it,
Have worked all over the country and there are guys on most sites i have worked on installing boilers,hobs,cookers,gas pipe work and dont have a gas ticket to their name. However thier is a commissioning guy who will come oout and commission all appliances installed ,it also works same way with unvented cylinders.
Normally on site there will be a gas certified op but doesnt mean those works stop if theyu go sick or on holiday.Correct me if i am wrong but if their is a gas op on site then the theory goes he is over seeing the work (even tho it is a technacality) of the installs. Besides i have also seen gas safe ops who iwouldn't trust to fix a stand off clip never mind install commission any form of appliance.

i think a few of us are reading it the same way!!

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

 

[stevetheplumber]

this is always going to be the problem on site work when you arrive to do second fix work how do you know whose done the first fix ? and whats the situation in larger stuff where risers go in 12 months before the secondfix chance are the original fitter could be gone, dead or left the country by the time the flats get fitted out who then signs the work of ?

 

[kirkgas]

It is done big time Red. All within the rules. Some of the bigger outfits may only have one or 2 registered guys.

i agree it goes on, what i cant understand is the idiot who signs it all off, when the poo hits the fan he needs to say "yes i was there and supervised this work, but i honestly dont know why there was an explosion, i will do better the next time, if you dont jail me" the plumber gets off scott free as there is paperwork to say he was supervised, and the boss gets off scott free as he told the gas guy to supervise the woork, but how can he supervise 4-6 heating teams properly, there isnt enough money in the bank managers pension fund (remember when we used to say the bank vault?) for me to sign off this level of work and TBH he deserves all he gets when/if it goes wrong, because it is not within the regs to do what they are doing, although it will be within the rules for them to elude to what is going on,
gasparts i bet you wish you hadnt mentioned fitting hobs under CCN1 now

 

[stevetheplumber]

kirk that doesnt answer my question where a large job is spread over long periods how can the same man do it all or would you suggest that all previous work is ripped out and redone