Leaving At Risk turned on!

[diamondgas]

Potterton 51 back boiler and fire!! Fitted before debris plates were thought of and the ventilation was a joke! 40 years old the owner reckoned!

HOWEVER

Not spilling fumes or leaking gas and no signs of ever doing so! The guy laughed when I asked if it was okay to leave it turned off!! So I At Risked it, got him to sign to say he understood the reasons for the notice and that he wanted it left on; and away I drove!

You know what? I can't blame him either.... Flue was pulling like a Dyson & the old sash windows were a joke at keeping out the winds 🙂

His argument was based on "legislation produced less for safety but more to cover your back" ! I couldn't find a valid argument with that either because I remember when these boilers and their like were everywhere and the only ones I found in a dangerous state were through lack of maintenance not ventilation!! We would and could accept the tiniest of ventilation as "having" ventilation not that long ago and a debris plate, phah!!!

Anyhow about an hour later I'm at Wolseley PartsCenter when in pops this guy winging about B-Gas leaving a boiler on with floor ventilation!! He, boasting, said he ID'd it straight away!!! Why! I asked him? His excuse amazed me even more ... "Gas fire had signs of sooting down to lack of ventilation and you can't fit ventilation there!" My mind boggles as times 🙂

I'm not advocating leaving all appliances turned on when there's an obvious issue with risk but honestly I think this industry of ours has gone Arze covering crazy!!! Or am I wrong? ..... Rant! Rant!!Rant!!! 🙂

I know there'll be a lot of 'what if's' coming up in the next lot of posts but hey! You could AR every appliance you come across 1st visit on "What if's", what if the gas valve passes? AR, what if the flue comes apart? AR, what if a swarm of bee's decide to nest in the flue?, AR ... Last one actually happened to a custard and their living room was dripping with soot, I ID'd it, fumes!!!

What's your thoughts on the At Risk category? How do you feel about leaving them turned on?

 

[mountainman]

It depends who your working for IMHO.
If you are employed by a company then you would need to follow all the rules unless given written instructions to the contrary.
If you are working for yourself then common sense and your professional judgement should prevail.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

It depends who your working for IMHO.
If you are employed by a company then you would need to follow all the rules unless given written instructions to the contrary.
If you are working for yourself then common sense and your professional judgement should prevail.

:iagree:

 

[diamondgas]

It depends who your working for IMHO.
If you are employed by a company then you would need to follow all the rules unless given written instructions to the contrary.
If you are working for yourself then common sense and your professional judgement should prevail.

To some degree I agree, but wouldn't company rules follow the same protocol that a self employed person follows?

 

[mountainman]

Not so sure Diamond, I would require written instructions to cover myself.
Imagine the scenario.
Coroner.
"why did you leave the AR appliance working"?
You
"my boss"
Coroner
"can you prove this"
You
"no"
Coroner
"what size prison uniform do you think will fit you"?

 

[AWheating]

Some companys are very quick to AR and turn off.......... "and heres the cost of a new boiler".

 

[diamondgas]

LOL .... why worry about a coroner? You could have a coroner asking you the same about a perfectly good working boiler that suddenly developed a flue fault, eg flue liner coming away and collapsing! I'd rather face a coroner with a signed piece of paper saying "left on as per customer" than to try and defend a fault that occurred after you were there!! 🙂

Neither were turned off (scenario)

 

[diamondgas]

Some companys are very quick to AR and turn off.......... "and heres the cost of a new boiler".

The guy I met was an AA guy! Big company arze covering to the max!!! But I wonder if it's company policy or the individuals?

 

[AWheating]

i dont think you have much of an individual say/identity when working for big companies really.

 

[Millsy 82]

I do AR alot of boilers but if I follow everything by the book my arse is covered and in turn my company are covered.

The thing that gets me is these flues that are not clipped but jointed correctly and have been in for years they have not come apart in that time and not likely to come apart in the future but its still AR

The fire if it had signs of sooting 1st thing I would have done is give it a really good service check everything. Although saying that I worked in somebodies house and there were big black soot marks either side by the draught diverter a quick chat with the customer ID straight away, Turns out that when the wind blows in a certain direction it caused downdraught in about 12 houses those with log burners got smoked out I fitted an anti downdraught cowl and away it went.

 

[kirkgas]

To some degree I agree, but wouldn't company rules follow the same protocol that a self employed person follows?

no, because some companies have contracts with clients that are stricter than the regs, and as long as its priced accordingly and everyone knows the specific contract agreement then everyone is happy,

 

[diamondgas]

no, because some companies have contracts with clients that are stricter than the regs, and as long as its priced accordingly and everyone knows the specific contract agreement then everyone is happy,

Everyone except the custards 🙂 My worry is that people may meet greater harm because someone is scared to leave a boiler on! They die of hyperthermia say, because someone turns of a boiler fitted too close to an openable window!!

 

[zeebeedee]

Personally I work for a firm and im over cautious, the way I see it is, I'm not the one making the money I am taking the risk and even if it's a tiny risk it's still a risk! I have a saying "Im too pretty for jail, they will love me in there!" :censored:

 

[diamondgas]

I do AR alot of boilers but if I follow everything by the book my arse is covered and in turn my company are covered.

🙂 So millsy82, is covering your arse more important than the customers welfare ... worst case scenario? No need to answer by the way ans I am not wanting to put you on the spot... but you are 🙂

 

[diamondgas]

i dont think you have much of an individual say/identity when working for big companies really.

I worked for big companies 25yrs .. they professed that we were all 'one' but when the s-hit hit the fan you were all of a sudden an individual working beyond their ethic!! I understand the yes sab no sab! mentality 🙂

 

[Millsy 82]

🙂 So millsy82, is covering your arse more important than the customers welfare ... worst case scenario? No need to answer by the way ans I am not wanting to put you on the spot... but you are 🙂

I work on If it is dangerous its ID if there is a chance that it could become dangerous from a fault that is there when I inspect then its AR then any other faults NCS.

And yes covering my arse is more important. If I left an unclipped flue and thought it was going to be ok and just NCS it and it came apart would the customer think of the fact that I could lose my gas safe and job trying to do them a favour? NO they would want compensation or to get gas safe involved. So I dont do people favours as far as i'm concerned if I have to AR or ID something I do, I would always leave temporary heaters for people with young children or elderly so i'm not completely heartless.

 

[diamondgas]

I would always leave temporary heaters for people with young children or elderly so i'm not completely heartless.

Thanks for this Millsy 🙂 ... There are some that will be heartless and refer the onus onto the 'company' rather than take responsibility themselves and leave other forms of heat alas!

I don't think this job is about doing folk favours though .... as long as you cover yourself you can leave an appliance working AR .. I don't think many are comfortable with that! Maybe experience allows that compromise I don't know ? 🙂

 

[tamz]

I agree with you Diamond. It is all about covering rses and creating sales and little really to do with the actual risk factor in many cases. The bigger companies would have no qualms about cutting frail old people off in the middle of winter. What is the bigger risk? As the example mentioned above, an un clipped flue that has stood perfectly stable for 15 years or minus 10 with no heating for a pensioner? That one should be a no brainer but unfortunately in most cases it isn't.
You can see the point of it tho. There are too many who would jump on the phone to claims are us. It is just the times we live in where common sense is frowned upon and seen as prize money for some.
That is what the paperwork is for albeit it is a pita to spend half your day writing the same stuff out. Just play by the rules and use engineering judgement (another seemingly dangerous thing :lol🙂

 

[diamondgas]

Cheers Tamz .....

I'd like to invite anyone to explore this issue coz I think it has more potential for harm than good! I don't see any good in isolating anyone's form of heating because of a change in regulations or when you know it will never cause any REAL danger!!!

 

[tamz]

I think over classification and the desire to turn things off for the slightest reason may actually be having an adverse affect for some which may lead to greater risk. People are beginning to think of it as a sales ploy which in many cases it is and are being scared away from the service contracts for that reason. I've had a few customers who have cancelled their contracts after being cut off (wrongly) and think all gas engineers are out to fleece them and make them fit a new boiler.
Now if they continue to use me or someone else to get their boiler regularly serviced that is fine but i know many will now leave it until it breaks down or something happens, which with a back boiler may be when the flames are rolling out from under it and it is spewing CO.