Leaving At Risk turned on!

[diamondgas]

Sadly the TOFO mentality is filtrating into our profession I believe! Maybe it's lack of experience with all the fast track training going on? Who knows? Maybe open flued appliances are a scary place for the un-educated? Or maybe it'll take someone to die for regulations to relax a bit? 🙂

 

[Dannypipe]

Better safe than sorry is my motto. If I think something is AR, I'm hoping the customer won't insist on leaving it switched on.

I'm not heavy handed, but stick to the book as I don't want to be responsible (even inadvertantly) for someones death. Yes, sometimes its stupid nitpicking faults that in reality won't do any harm, but there is always that small chance.

To say that a new boiler could suddenly suffer a fault and become dangerous is unrealistic. Modern boilers are too safe when properly installed. Its the old rubbish and the badly fitted that we need to keep our eyes peeled for, and jo public pay for our expertise. They're not to know it's pottentially lethal.

I've had situations where jo public is quite unaware their boiler is leaking gas/spilling CO etc. People don't like it when you switch their boiler off, and neither do I, but as I said before this long response. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Mike Jackson]

The problem with today's litigious society one of your priorities has got to be CYA. If I find something is at risk I will turn it off with the customers permission. There are times when the customer will refuse and I will note on the paperwork and ask them to sign it. If they refuse to sign then I will note on the paperwork. This may upset some people but in my view we are no longer allowed to use common sense, everything has to be in black and white and my priority is to safeguard my livelihood.

As Millsy 82 does, in the winter I carry heaters so I'm not leaving vulnerable people at risk and if it requires a simple repair to rectify an AR situation you may as well do it whilst you're there even if it's not going to earn you any extra, it's worth it for the good will.

 

[diamondgas]

I understand the 'better safe than sorry' attitude. At Risk is not unsafe though! It is not in anyway dangerous! In a lot of cases with older appliances it is a change in regulations that have made them At Risk. They were perfectly okay until the change in paperwork said they're are not!

With the fore mentioned appliance , 1st post, I explained to the guy the potential dangers that could occur and he "took on board", his words, my concerns but insisted on leaving it on and signing my paperwork to say he was taking the responsibility! I do believe he'll be renewing this year but that's his choice end of the day. I could find nothing 'unsafe' about the installation however. What I did find were potentially dangerous issues that had been there 40yrs of which i brought to his attention.

Black and white rules is how i run my business, by-the-way, If I come accross an At Risk situation i'll inform the customer, explain the potential issues and let them make the decision as to whether it is turned off or not! That I believe is how it should be! We need the responsible person's permission otherwise its left on with a label attached!

I too have a fan heater in my van and leave it quite often for folk when i can't get their appliance repaired there and then! I've also left it when I've had to ID ... I can't bring to mind any AR situations its been used on.. 🙂

 

[AWheating]

as mentioned, there is alot of distrust in the general public about Gas Engineers and there motives when turning off/disconnecting. Joe Public watch the tv programes about the dodgy non registered engineers charging £800 to change a thermocoupler and mud sticks.

TV programes, News papers articals about how 99.9% of Gas Safe Engineers do a bloody good job protecting the public from possible dangers do not sell and make money.

I recently disconnected a gas cooker in a council property because flames where leaving the back of the grill burner and scorching the wall, when i tried to explain to the tennant why it was dangerous i got told "you gas engineers are all the same, looking for reasons to rob people of there money" and this was aobut a very visual danger .

sometimes you will never win.


I would carry temp heaters if situations needed it....... you just have to hope you get them back!

 

[Millsy 82]

I understand the 'better safe than sorry' attitude. At Risk is not unsafe though! It is not in anyway dangerous! In a lot of cases with older appliances it is a change in regulations that have made them At Risk. They were perfectly okay until the change in paperwork said they're are not!

With the fore mentioned appliance , 1st post, I explained to the guy the potential dangers that could occur and he "took on board", his words, my concerns but insisted on leaving it on and signing my paperwork to say he was taking the responsibility! I do believe he'll be renewing this year but that's his choice end of the day. I could find nothing 'unsafe' about the installation however. What I did find were potentially dangerous issues that had been there 40yrs of which i brought to his attention.

Black and white rules is how i run my business, by-the-way, If I come accross an At Risk situation i'll inform the customer, explain the potential issues and let them make the decision as to whether it is turned off or not! That I believe is how it should be! We need the responsible person's permission otherwise its left on with a label attached!

I too have a fan heater in my van and leave it quite often for folk when i can't get their appliance repaired there and then! I've also left it when I've had to ID ... I can't bring to mind any AR situations its been used on.. 🙂

That is pretty much what I do. As long as I have that paper trail to say I have picked it up and the customer is aware what they do with that info is up to them. I would rather do without explaining to the customer why its at risk as this takes ages but as said they can then make there own informed choice.

The 1 thing I never ever say is yes it is safe to use and there wont be any problems because its been like that for years.

I tend to say something along the lines,
It is not to current regulations due to whatever (then explain how it could cause a problem) although it is not causing a problem now there could be a chance that in the future it may cause a problem therefore it is classed as AR. I would recommend that the work is carried out to resolve the problem if you do choose to use the appliance you do so at your own risk blah de blah Is it ok to turn it off, No, Ok could you please sign here to say that I have explained the situation then chuck a sticker on and away I go.

 

[TBServices]

I think over classification and the desire to turn things off for the slightest reason may actually be having an adverse affect for some which may lead to greater risk. People are beginning to think of it as a sales ploy which in many cases it is and are being scared away from the service contracts for that reason. I've had a few customers who have cancelled their contracts after being cut off (wrongly) and think all gas engineers are out to fleece them and make them fit a new boiler.
Now if they continue to use me or someone else to get their boiler regularly serviced that is fine but i know many will now leave it until it breaks down or something happens, which with a back boiler may be when the flames are rolling out from under it and it is spewing CO.

Agreed. The last back boiler I capped off had a deteriorated flue and was definitely I.D. I went to service the boiler originally. The lady was crying buckets and her daughter was shouting at her down the phone for getting her boiler serviced.

I felt awful but I had no choice and I felt forced to justify my actions by saying better cold than dead essentially. That woman will probably never have another gas appliance serviced again, at her own risk. Her daughter had the attitude that I was trying to create more work for myself.


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[Mike Jackson]

They can always get a second opinion but they don't get a second life.

 

[diamondgas]

They can always get a second opinion but they don't get a second life.

At Risk isn't dangerous Mike! It's potentially dangerous. Bit like driving without your seatbelt on, sex with a stranger without a condom, or living in an earthquake zone! <-- What a weird 3 I chose then :lol:

 

[Pssst]

"turned off" when applied to AR appliances saimply means turned off at the operating tap/switch. It doesnt mean cut off/isolated. There is only so much you can do and if you have labelled /explained/issued notice signed for then thats plenty.

 

[diamondgas]

"turned off" when applied to AR appliances saimply means turned off at the operating tap/switch. It doesnt mean cut off/isolated. There is only so much you can do and if you have labelled /explained/issued notice signed for then thats plenty.

I use to turn off at the fuse spur pssst! Look I'd say ... turned off here 🙂

I'd never detract from safety ....... but I do believe experience tells you instinctively what is safe or not .. You can't explain or give that to anyone! Legislation quells that uncertainty i guess?

 

[stevetheplumber]

the whole point of legislation like health and safety and a lot of gas/ electrical regs is to put the most responsibility on the lowest paid and to stop any charges getting up the food chain if you put so many rules and regs in place that no one realy has a definate answer to them all the chances are the poor fitter will have broken one of them and can therefore carry the can

 

[Nostrum]

At Risk isn't dangerous Mike! It's potentially dangerous. Bit like driving without your seatbelt on, sex with a stranger without a condom, or living in an earthquake zone! <-- What a weird 3 I chose then :lol:

Would two of your AR's make an ID if done simultaneously?

 

[Millsy 82]

Would two of your AR's make an ID if done simultaneously?

I have actually spoken to gas safe on that 1 and the answer is No

 

[diamondgas]

Would two of your AR's make an ID if done simultaneously?

sambotc ... An ID in my books is an appliance that if left on would be an Immediate Risk to person or property! This appliance was 40yrs old, a really old fella posing some potential danger but nothing imminent! Lot's of what if scenarios after the event could conjure up many possibilities but I don't do fantasizing or scare mongering. I deal with what's in front of me, inform the responsible person of the potential dangers and allow them to make the decision of how next to proceed! I do not buy into 2 AR's make an ID! Spilling fumes, excessive gas leaks or incorrect use of an appliance/fitting that WILL if allowed to continue use cause a danger to life or property, they're Immediately Dangerous!! IMHO 🙂

 

[Nostrum]

Sorry guys I missed the mark, I was refering to the 'driving without your seatbelt on, sex with a stranger without a condom, or living in an earthquake zone'

I'll get my coat..

 

[diamondgas]

Sorry guys I missed the mark, I was refering to the 'driving without your seatbelt on, sex with a stranger without a condom, or living in an earthquake zone'

I'll get my coat..

Way too sharp mate :rofl:

I think driving and sex without would be ID 🙂

 

[Dannypipe]

I've done driving and sex. Madness I know. I was going out with this lunatic nymphomaniac who just wanted to shag at every opportunity. I mean I'm as red blooded as the next bloke but eventually it wore thin. Excuse the pun.

Driving down the A21, she's decided it would be a laugh and the rest is history. It was very, very late at night/early in the morning. Not condoning it. Funny though. She shagged my brother when I dumped her. Nice girl.

 

[Nostrum]

Have you still got her number? My email is .........

 

[AWheating]

bagsey 2nd's!!!!