- Thread starter gassafe
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Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
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scotty plumber
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mountainman
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PlumbBobBob
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mcniven
Apparently when they shut down all their work will be passed to NUS, for a small fee (£1725) you can you can get all the work you can handle! for references pm best bathrooms he's making a fortune from them.
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smtplumbing
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Puddle
Thought it would have been in the rouge traders section ,were it belonged,like the way the bloke trying to defend them,fell back on replacing the boilers on a safety basis............do not think he meant the safety of the boiler but the safety of premiums to the shareholders ! :38:
Well done Anne Robinson, made the MD of the service division squirm and im pretty sure he was a little loose with the truth when the question about engineers being on bonuses if they sell new boilers, BG from top to bottom is all about sales, all customer facing staff have sales targets and related sales bonuses.
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diamondgas
If that BG manager was Pinnochio Anne Diamond would have been in need of the fire brigade to get her down from his nose!!! What a load of tosh!!! Ask any engineer working for BG what Qdos is and they'll cringe...! They're 'reward' points for sales leads...!
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mountainman
Wossname didn't need setting, I watched WD.
Now I've been educated and thanks to BG, it seems that a 20 year old boiler should be replaced on safety grounds.
Never heard so much cobblers in my life.
Now I've been educated and thanks to BG, it seems that a 20 year old boiler should be replaced on safety grounds.
Never heard so much cobblers in my life.
unless its changed since last year they get bonus point just for getting the lead for a new boiler and more if the customer agres to a new boiler
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diamondgas
Well my post was loaded so not quite sure what you're askin Whn 1?
The MD was lying out of his back teeth IMO!! The pressure to sell comes from the top down. Managers developed 'incentive' schemes more than 20 years ago for engineers to gain more for selling. It was not money but reward points that could be exchanged for loads of things, Agos, M&S ... etc. etc .... They labelled them Qdos and I believe they are still there today!
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mountainman
BTW
When I was with BG many moons ago, we were encouraged to promote new appliances and especially new boilers.
Of course there was a bonus paid for any leads provided.
Heaven Forbid (gasp)
When I was with BG many moons ago, we were encouraged to promote new appliances and especially new boilers.
Of course there was a bonus paid for any leads provided.
Heaven Forbid (gasp)
the real good news is it wont end there im sure annes phone is ringing of the hook with people who've been ripped off by bg
shame she didnt mention the powerflushing scandal
shame she didnt mention the powerflushing scandal
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PlumbBobBob
The QDOS reward scheme is basically points which convert to money which is then put on a QDOS card, just like a visa card for you to spend as you like. Which reminds me I still have a bit of money left on mine from when I was contracting there last year. Although I will add I didnt get anyone to replace a boiler that didnt need replacing. Mainly got the money from getting them to switch to BG dual fuel lol.
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washer
Ha ha, ive heard that is a nice earner!! Think maybe people are missing the point on the boiler leads, from what ive heard there is a lot if pressure if you do not get boiler leads or you are out on your ear, no one cares about the tenner you get, you just dont want to get summoned to the top man at bg and get the boot.
At team meetings people do get a talking to if ther arent reaching targets of boiler leads, etc etc. As I was a contractor I didnt have that problem. You would get more of a talking to for not getting boiler leads than taking 8 visits to fix a boiler.
Shocking, about time British Gas got looked in to. I think some other authorities see them as untouchable, so they do get away a lot.
Thank You Watchdog.
That guy from British Gas was clearly not telling the entire truth, and the way he justified it was wrong.
Thank You Watchdog.
That guy from British Gas was clearly not telling the entire truth, and the way he justified it was wrong.
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diamondgas
You're dead right ... I left BG 8yrs ago ... Loved most of my time there and made real good friends along the 25yrs prior! Privatisation made it just a money making machine with us guys as the front line 'tool' to make it! Dangle a carrot and the donkey will follow!!! I got sick of chasing the carrot! Luckily I hadn't Driven my credit rating to the max and could afford to leave the "family"! 🙂
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PlumbBobBob
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TBServices
I Sub contracted to them a few years back when working for a company they got rid of me as I only got leads on dangerous boilers (not dangerous because there more than 10 years old because they were falling apart as I was the first person to actually take the cover off in years) and they got the hump when I had a regular inspection and refused to tell someboy with a ideal mexico 2 BF that they should upgrade the boiler. My reply was why it will go on for years.
And the leads they got out of me was good for my boss as I gave him the addresses aswell.
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PlumbBobBob
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PlumbBobBob
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royston
Dont worry its nothing that wil get you into trouble ! lol. Google iplayer then watch it online
BBC iPlayer - Watchdog: 19/04/2012
i am not very good with computers , but it tells me is not available yet .......????
i am not very good with computers , but it tells me is not available yet .......????
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royston
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Billy Bob Bob
try it tomorrow, heard a rumour today that BG laid 8 thousand off before xmas
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diamondgas
When i was there at BG there were 6k engineers, the MD said they had 8k! That's a heck of a lot of uplift in workload if you ask me and watchdog and the like are most likely to blame for our downfall in client base and their increase!!! The likes of watchdog scaremonger folk into believing that they need to find a reputable company .. BG get their fangs out and hone in on that demand !! Where does that leave the likes of us???
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Billy Bob Bob
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diamondgas
They bought the AA whilst i was working for them ... I understand where you're coming from .. The BG MD was doing his best at damage control IMHO ... As they've always have done since I can remember! They have a customer base to rival none! AND as long as the scaremongering continue to tell folk that they mustn't trust "joe Bloggs" their loyal customers will not want to deviate!! Watchdog adds as much to the problem as it tries to repair in my opinion!
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The MD (Chris Jansen) was less than honest in some of his replies IMO, you will know Diamond the sales culture for all customer facing staff and the sales before service culture there. Spot on with the scaremongering their sales tactics/staff paint us sole traders/small business as evil cowboys who are out to rob them of every penny they have if they are not covered by a BG product.
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diamondgas
Alas they may have utalized the likes of watchdog to their benefit! End of the day they're a business out to make money! As are we all 🙂 They happen to have a lot more years in the making than most of us will ever muster 🙂
My son in law works for dynorod, they're also target driven. They've just been split into two teams to fight each other over the month for sales, winners get a bonus, losers get nothing. They've been told, don't change a tap washer sell a set of taps £95 + VAT fitted. The taps are about £12 a pair.
His mate quoted to change a cold water mains tank a few weeks ago at a house I was working at (fitting a bath) 25 gallon £880 inc VAT.
His mate quoted to change a cold water mains tank a few weeks ago at a house I was working at (fitting a bath) 25 gallon £880 inc VAT.
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Resolute
I thought Dyno were mostly franchises though? When I subied to them I wasn't asked to sell anything!
Yep, this is still a franchise but they expect them to sell, sell, sell. It only used to be mandates at one time, signing people up to insurance but now it's sell whatever you can.
I wouldn't be surprised if BG have the power to ban the repeat from iplayer
no no ....watched it , not really enough questions asked ..they could have gone deep in to it imho
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Billy Bob Bob
Could of done the whole hour on them, coincedently seen two bg vans parked up all day cant have a lot on know they live there
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Hardy1
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Doodlebug
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Doodlebug
British Gas give a lifetime garauntee with a PF. If you can beat that then go ahead.
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Doodlebug
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Doodlebug
Chris Jansen did not lie. I think he handled the situation very well. Anne Robinson and the BBC should be ashamed of themselves.
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petercj
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Doodlebug
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Alanc
We were shown a DVD of the 2 engineers defending themselves, I'm on there side because if the parts are not shown as available on the laptop, then they are just following the bg procedures.
Then you get the blame for not phoning independents and taking initiative.
you just can't please this mob.
rant over
Al
Then you get the blame for not phoning independents and taking initiative.
you just can't please this mob.
rant over
Al
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Billy Bob Bob
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petercj
Female who trained as an accountant and worked for Centrica before moving into politics .........?
Absolutely 100% spot on. Despite what people think on here BG engineers are not going into people's homes lying and trying to con people. Yes, they try and sell things, but who doesn't?
If the computer says a part isn't available and an engineer states this, is he wrong? No he's just following what the company who employs him tells him to do.
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petercj
Trying to sell someone something that they need is one thing, telling people they need a power-flush costing £599 when its not necessary is another - of which I have personal experience. Is it right to pass a gas check off as: "a service" and ignore the boiler manufacturer's specifications re what should be done annually while telling customers that their boiler has been serviced? "The computer says no", so right off someone's boiler! Trading Standards would be down on a small trader like a ton of bricks! The British Gas of yesteryear is very different from the BG of today.
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Ive been contracting there for three years now on and off and I've never seen a power flush offered when it's not needed.
As for the service, they don't call it that now, and haven't for ages.
And they don't just knock someone's boiler off if the computer says part not available, they will try and source the part, I have been to parts centre to pick up flues in this instance.
Of course, they offer new boilers as an alternative, but who doesn't. If you went to a twenty odd year old boiler and it needed parts would you not recommend a replacement? Of course you would.
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andyg0507
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petercj
As I said, I have personal experience of BG recommending power flushing when not required, i.e. radiators performing well with no cool spots and good spread of temperature top to bottom. There are also many similar accounts on the Internet.
As can be seen here, BG use the term "servicing" in their current advertising and the term is used in their Home Care contract:-
HomeCare - Our Range of Boiler and Heating Cover - British Gas
The 24 hour help-line they state in their adverts has had a regular message on it of late saying that they are too busy to answer the phone!
It can take two or three days for BG to put repairs into action under the HC contract - the 24 hour emergency helpline is totally misleading. As long as you have a trickle of cold water its not an emergency according to BG. Light yourself a candle and wash in cold water for all they care.
A BG engineer told me that the boilers in the Watchdog program were written off because the parts that were available were not those as sold by the manufacturer. I wouldn't know whether that is true or not, but as its not unusual for anything from boilers to motor vehicles to contain parts NOT made by the manufacturer it doesn't seem like a reasonable explanation to me.
I accept that some of the guys who work for BG are good engineers, but these days quite a few are 'chancers' who don't give a fig about the quality of their work.
Obviously the engineers don't decide BG policy and have no control over the way things are done, but someone does, and they are the ones that need investigating imo.
If people feel let down by BG they should contact Trading Standards, and if they don't get satisfaction from TS, then write to their MP.
If you go online and get a policy quote then you have the option for a service or not, if you request the service then the policy goes up accordingly, if not then you get a safety check.
As far waiting for a breakdown engineer to attend, that is total tosh. I'm not in for a few days next week so rang the office today to get another bloke out for an intermittent fault, as I was only there for a service, and I won't be in to fit parts next week and BG are going out tomorrow.
People love to slate BG for their failings, but if you look at them on the whole they are pretty damn good at what they do.
As far as some of then being chancers, you get this in all walks of life. It's pretty unfair to tarnish the whole company with the same brush.
I personally couldnt care less what anyone else does, weather it be BG, eon, npower, or a self employed gas fitter. I'm at work to feather my own nest and look after my family. If people choose to dislike the company I work for then so be it. But from my dealings with BG, I have found them to be a genuine company offering a service which they get right 99% of the time. Obviously they get things wrong from time to time, as does anyone.
Ive worked in thousands of BG customers house and I have never heard a bad word said about them, surely there's proof there that they are doing a good job.
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kay-jay
I also have personal experience of this....
A customer rang me said i was told by bg i need a powerflush at £700 how much do you charge? Told her 300 quid but only after i confirmed it was necessary.......
Went round and turned out she needed a new pump. Much cheaper to say the least
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
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petercj
I have detailed evidence of everything I have posted, and a case cooking which at the present time is heading for the County Court - for obvious reasons I will not be going into further details of it on here.
I suggest you check your facts before you refer to what people post as: "tosh"!
You are clearly singing from the BG hymn sheet.
I can call it tosh when I've seen the exact opposite in action today.
And I'm singing from no hymn sheet. I'm a self employed heating engineer, who get work off BG, private landlords, private homeowners and estate agents.
Do I like BG? Yes, they provide me with work, but I'm not employed directly by them. I gauge all my opinions by what I have seen and done first hand.
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cannon
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petercj
As I have said, I don't want to go into further detail, and besides that, I don't come onto this forum to argue anyway.
What I can say is that senior management at BG are not contesting some of the issues I have mentioned in the way that you are. So I'm going to leave this conversation there. You know what you've seen, and I know that my facts are accurate - end of.
Im not here to argue the toss either mate, but in the same way you feel your facts are right, I also think mine are too.
No two people will agree on everything all of the time.
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Doodlebug
Yes you are correct gas man. I will defend British Gas all day long and people who slate British Gas should get their facts right first.
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Doodlebug
It makes me laugh when the old how much for a PowerFlush rubbish comes out. How many companies do you know who charge less than British Gas for a PowerFlush and provide a lifetime gaurantee?
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petercj
Re: BG Boiler "Servicing"
The BG schedule is listed here - the front cover doesn't get taken off the case, so there is absolutely no chance of executing the manufacturer's service schedule:-
Boiler Service and Safety Checks - One-off Boiler Service - British Gas
The BG schedule is listed here - the front cover doesn't get taken off the case, so there is absolutely no chance of executing the manufacturer's service schedule:-
Boiler Service and Safety Checks - One-off Boiler Service - British Gas
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Doodlebug
"Visually inspect the boiler to check for corrosion and leaks"
This means inspecting the entire boiler for leaks, corrosion, general deteriation etc etc. if a British Gas engineer doesn't take the case off he isn't doing he's job as per operational procedures and could face a disciplinary, please make sure what you post about other companies is facts!
The third point says 'inspect your boiler and controls to ensure they are operating safely'.
How would you do this without taking the cover off?
It also says 'visually inspect for leaks'.
How can you check the heat exchanger etc without taking the cover off?
How would you do this without taking the cover off?
It also says 'visually inspect for leaks'.
How can you check the heat exchanger etc without taking the cover off?
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Doodlebug
I think you need to watch what you say petercj, it's not nice to make assumptions about another companies workmanship without facts. Where does it say "we don't remove the case"
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tamz
Don't forget to add this is conditional on keeping a continuous homecare contract going.
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Doodlebug
Yes that is correct, British Gas will gaurantee the PowerFlush if they are looking after the system. Would you expect them to give this gaurantee if they weren't looking after the system?
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tamz
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petercj
I do watch what I say, and as already posted, I would not be saying the above without hard evidence.
What I refer to is what BG senior management say is their definition of a service - what you do as an individual employee of BG doesn't concern me, i.e. I have no interest in individual variation in relation to the companies specification.
But then, are you actually saying that you service BG Home Care contracts, and that in every "service" you remove the front of the case and service the boiler in accordance the manufacturer's servicing schedule?
In relation to the "guarantee" with BG power flushing: what is it that is under warranty?
Whatever it might be, BG say that any warranty only exists if the boiler is continually covered by BG Home Care service contract, which is tantamount to paying twice.
Bearing in mind that Help-Link (re Johnny Ball's ad) will install a WB boiler for around half the cost of BG and provide a 10 year warranty against - BG's one year warranty, it's not exactly a bargain, is it? They don't even insist on power flushing (only done if necessary) and include a chemical flush in the price.
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Doodlebug
A British Gas PowerFlush includes any remedial work that may be required ie: pipework reconfiguration. The one thing it doesn't include which would be extra charge is major work like re-piping the whole system lol
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Doodlebug
You really are unbelievable, you drag up a web page stating we don't take the case off which is untrue and obvious to see you are making your own assumptions to anyone who looks at the web page. Paying twice, are you for real, where do you get your info from. Customers who pay for us to flush their system are obviously going to stay with us and if they don't then that's fine but we can't give a lifetime gaurantee if there is third party interference likely to take place on that system which we no longer look after if the cancel the contract. The answer to your question on taking the case off, yes I most certainly do, it's part of the service and must be removed for inspection of the heat exchanger. You need to look a bit closer at the terms of that Johnny Ball offer pmsl. I must admit though I do agree with you on one thing and that is "British Gas are very expensive on the installation side of the business.
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petercj
You are not reading my posts carefully enough, as I have said more than once, I obviously don't know what you do as an individual engineer, I'm referring to general policy.
I've seen a number of "services" done by BG engineers, and the front of the case has not been removed, and I've been told by BG engineers that their schedule does not allow for carrying out a service as specified by the boiler manufacturer.
One statement by BG has been that if the boiler gas check is ok, then the boiler doesn't need further maintenance.
But then of course most M.I.s state that to maintain safe running of the boiler it should be serviced in accordance with their specifications.
All the bluster of: "oh how can you say that!" doesn't wash.
And by the way, I have checked out the details of the Help-Link deal, what do you want to know?
I'm delighted to see a few companies are now running TV ads to give BG some real competition! Great stuff!
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Doodlebug
We follow British Gas procedures on an annual Maintenance Inspection. If you look into a manufactures servicing instructions you will see that some ask you to check the blow-off valve but would you? The laptops we are provided with list all the manufactures servicing procedures which we use for reference as to specific combustion reading req etc etc and we service the boiler using our operational procedures. British Gas have an exceptional safety record, just look at how many boilers we service per year and tell me we aren't doing the job correctly. I have read your posts over and over and I am reading them correctly, ie: you stated that the case doesn't come off as per the web site page, why did you sate that? I really get the feeling that you have got it in for British Gas.
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tamz
Many people justifiably have but volume for volume they probably have no more unhappy customers than any other big mob.
It is the (sometimes underhand) methods of promoting sales that winds most up. By no means all engineers are guilty of it but we all know it is pushed severely from the top down (company policy you could call it)
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petercj
I'm saying what I'm saying as a result of what I've witnessed, as described above.
As mentioned, I do have issue with BG, which at the moment look like leading to a court case.
I am peeved with the way BG mislead and duck and dive when asked a straight question, and in my experience there is an institutional arrogance about BG which I find irritating. As said, I don't want to go into the main issues here. If I get them into the County Court they will have to give some straight answers, so that's my aim at the moment. BG have caused me problems, and I don't care how big they are, I will keep going till I nail them.
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Doodlebug
All companies want to make money no harm in that. Here's a scenario, I'm in a customers house and service the boiler, I fill out my paperwork and advise the customer on the benefits of trv's, remote heating controls or a Magnabooster. The customer declines and I leave literature for the product I've advised on. That's it, my job their is done, what the customer does with the advise I've given is totally up to them, no pressure at all. Would it be best if I serviced the boiler and gave no advise at all?
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