pricing up for little job

[supper plumb]

And it is a small job too!!
Iv been asked to fit a ISO on a electric power shower the 15mm pipe runs up too the loft on too the header tanks???
how do you go about pricing somthing so small?

the part is £2+??????labour=????I DONT KNOW

my plans are to just turn off mains and cut pipe in loft fit ISO with PTFE and paste clean up water back on check iso and sod off..

 

[secret squirrel]

Minimum charge £45 plus parts, can you turn the water off?

 

[supper plumb]

yer water can be turned off i thing erm didnt look

 

[secret squirrel]

It can be the little jobs that can cause the most grief, I always have a minimum charge, you still have to get to the job use your van, pli, road tax, diesel, van insurance list goes on,

Not in it for the fun of it.

 

[supper plumb]

thanks buddy ill wright it up

 

[Keefy]

SS is right, don't be afraid to charge decent money even if it is an 'easy job', if they don't like it and expected you to do it for a tenner or something daft then what have you lost - a tenner or so? What have you gained? Self respect.

 

[glenno1]

I agree £45 minimum,but dont know why you use to many materials(paste & ptfe)

 

[Keefy]

my plans are to just turn off mains and cut pipe in loft fit ISO with PTFE and paste clean up water back on check iso and sod off..

Forget the PTFE, if compression fittings needed PTFE they'd come with a roll.

 

[plumber0808]

Jet blue everything.

i can't believe fitting a iso valve has started a thread.

 

[on31ll]

You not seen the mass-debates in the past ? Ptfe vs paste vs nothing ! They go on for days !

 

[on31ll]

Re reading this is pipe comes from header tank then its not so simple as just turning off cold mains is it ?

 

[lame plumber]

doh. why did u tell him, I was waiting for the how do i get out the attic to get an end cap thread done on his I phone

 

[dean.diy]

It can be the little jobs that can cause the most grief, I always have a minimum charge, you still have to get to the job use your van, pli, road tax, diesel, van insurance list goes on,

Not in it for the fun of it.

agree with that.

 

[markfxy]

Just give him an estimate 45 plus parts that's only for the first hour, might take half hour to get to the stopcock and there's no guarantee it'll turn of or you might snap the spindle there's no end of things that could and probably will go wrong

 

[tamz]

Tell him to go put the kettle on then whack it in live. Walk downstairs drink your coffee and collect yer cash.

No mess i hope :lol:

 

[Gray0689]

Tell him to go put the kettle on then whack it in live. Walk downstairs drink your coffee and collect yer cash.

No mess i hope :lol:

See simple

 

[on31ll]

Tell him to go put the kettle on then whack it in live. Walk downstairs drink your coffee and collect yer cash.

No mess i hope :lol:

Best advice really !

 

[SimonG]

Tell him to go put the kettle on then whack it in live. Walk downstairs drink your coffee and collect yer cash.

No mess i hope :lol:

If he thinks that isolating the mains and using paste and ptfe is needed is the way to go can you really see him snatching it? 🙂

Can I watch? Pleeeeeeaaaaaaassssseeeee 🙂 🙂 🙂

 

[on31ll]

No im watching but i will be selling the dvd !

 

[supper plumb]

:biggrin5: got the job at £30 labour pluss parts = happy days

 

[glenno1]

And a horlicks i hope

 

[Keefy]

:biggrin5: got the job at £30 labour pluss parts = happy days

Hope you've got liability insurance. 😉

 

[supper plumb]

went and done it today all done no paste tho:6:
But its beer money for the evening :8:

 

[Gray0689]

went and done it today all done no paste tho:6:
But its beer money for the evening :8:

Lol who showed you to do that why o why is there a roll of ptfe on the threads

 

[Keefy]

went and done it today all done no paste tho:6:
But its beer money for the evening :8:

oh my jesus christ

 

[Kyle87]

went and done it today all done no paste tho:6:
But its beer money for the evening :8:

You don't need all that polytetraflouraethelene on the threads of that valve mate. In danger of cracking the nuts

 

[supper plumb]

nout wrong with that. couple of turns of ptfe on the threads and couple of turns on the olives
only couple of turns if it was belt and braces then PTFE & paste
i was tought you should do 10/12 turns on the threads with tape and a smudge of paste on the jointing side of the olive

i only done 3 turns of PTFE sealed nice and no leaks

 

[Gray0689]

went and done it today all done no paste tho:6:
But its beer money for the evening :8:

Can't believe you even posted a picture of that mess
Ps should of been a full flow lever valve and where is the lagging

 

[Gray0689]

nout wrong with that. couple of turns of ptfe on the threads and couple of turns on the olives

Nothing wrong with it if your a muppet that hasn't a clue about plumbing
But if you got the name supper plumb WELL lmfao

 

[Keefy]

 

[secret squirrel]

Should be a full bore valve, I agree with earlier post preferably lever valve, full flow none the less.

If I had seen this on a job I'd think diy. PTFE around olives only.

If you were taught ptfe around the thread can you explain the reasoning behind this.

Thats why it was £30 full bore lever valve is a fiver(ish)

 

[Gray0689]

View attachment 13184

NO even tommy wouldn't do that lol

 

[Kyle87]

nout wrong with that. couple of turns of ptfe on the threads and couple of turns on the olives
only couple of turns if it was belt and braces then PTFE & paste
i was tought you should do 10/12 turns on the threads with tape and a smudge of paste on the jointing side of the olive

i only done 3 turns of PTFE sealed nice and no leaks

You don't want anything on the threads as the threads are only there to assist the squeezing of the olive.
Paste on the olive great!

You shouldn't ever put anything on the threads of a compression joint

 

[Mike Jackson]

Surely the pic i in the wrong place. Shouldn't it be in the hall of shame? Honestly, that's worse than most DIY jobs I see.

 

[Keefy]

You wanna copyright that photo of yours before someone steals it for their own portfolio.

 

[Kyle87]

This should be a question on your brain teaser thread..... Why is there ptfe on this valve?

 

[Keefy]

First rule of Plumb Club; when asking for advice - LISTEN!

 

[supper plumb]

you should never have metal on metal water can and will find its path to leak metal on metal thread = water to travel up the thread thats what i was shown by a plumber to do it this way. we all have our own way of doing things

 

[Kyle87]

Plumb club?

Keefy that sounds a bit Pervy lol

 

[Gray0689]

First rule of Plumb Club; when asking for advice - LISTEN!

Second rule
Don't think you know it all!
None of us do

 

[Kyle87]

you should never have metal on metal water can and will find its path to leak metal on metal thread = water to travel up the thread thats what i was shown by a plumber to do it this way. we all have our own way of doing things

That's on a thread to thread joint. Not a compression.

Your are referring to the type of joint like where an outside tap screws into a wall plate elbow. (No olive)

 

[Gray0689]

you should never have metal on metal water can and will find its path to leak metal on metal thread = water to travel up the thread thats what i was shown by a plumber to do it this way. we all have our own way of doing things

Never have metal on metal lol
What material is an olive what material is a copper pipe
There a clue in the name lmao

 

[secret squirrel]

you should never have metal on metal water can and will find its path to leak metal on metal thread = water to travel up the thread thats what i was shown by a plumber to do it this way. we all have our own way of doing things

The seal is between the olive and the copper pipe though, paste or ptfe is used to take out slight imperfections in the pipe, there should be no water coming through the thread if there is water slightly nip it up, or dismantle bit more paste or ptfe.

Whoever told you this is wrong.........

 

[Keefy]

you should never have metal on metal water can and will find its path to leak metal on metal thread = water to travel up the thread thats what i was shown by a plumber to do it this way. we all have our own way of doing things

Did the plumber who taught you speak English?

Serious question though, is this one of your jobs?

 

[supper plumb]

working along side a old boy plumbing all new pipe work rads the lot i was shown to rap all olives and threads and when asked to use paste aswell doing what Im told.
i was only allowd to rap joints valves and rap and fit rad tails.
then on too hanging rads fixing clips pipe runs core drilling making up bathroom suites then soldering fitting suites with the boss then helping first fix test then 2nd fix

 

[Keefy]

I've called 27 plumbers merchants and they're all out of PTFE.

 

[supper plumb]

i can sell you some of mine :waving: give me money there not out there just shut on bank holy Monday tut tut tut

 

[Keefy]

i can sell you some of mine :waving: give me money

Surprised you've got any left.

In all seriousness, and I mean this now, if you want to become a plumber you're best learning from someone with lots of experience and preferably qualified. Forget everything you've been taught so far and start over from scratch, get yourself onto a college course too and don't be tempted by fast track offers.

 

[supper plumb]

im on the card for a 2 year course at my local college.
the guy i worked with done all his valves like this and tails ect never had a leak that i know of?
when i got into college my plans are to start off from scratch because im there to learn and there there to teach!

its just that way iv been shown..

 

[Keefy]

im on the card for a 2 year course at my local college.
the guy i worked with done all his valves like this and tails ect never had a leak that i know of?
when i got into college my plans are to start off from scratch because im there to learn and there there to teach!

its just that way iv been shown..

Well if you're willing to accept that what you've learned so far is wrong and knuckle down in college and fully focus on learning and listening you should come out the other end with some well earned certificates. I hope one day you can come back to this thread and see the funny side. 😉

Good luck.

 

[lame plumber]

I also have a little part time occupation working with 320 hp caterpilar engines, the fuel line are in copper in places and can run at very high pressure, on the injector side and all that stops the diesel from spurting all over the engine room is a brass nut on a thread with an olive to make the seal, funny how I dont have fuel everywhere and theres not a sign of ptfe or jointing compound in the place. SP you need to shut up and listen and learn, at present you know the sum of diddly sqat and are making yourself look foolish. its good to see your attending a college, just start learning how to do it right and proffessionally and no more pics of your work, its a nighutmare that brings this trade into disrepute.

As above good luck and get learning the right way. A change of name would help

 

[leethegasman]

Brave to post that pick

 

[Mike Jackson]

[video=youtube;-9c5LWFI_M4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9c5LWFI_M4[/video]

Must be wrong though because he hasn't used any paste or ptfe. At the most I would use a small wipe of paste on the olive.

 

[leethegasman]

You don't need all that polytetraflouraethelene on the threads of that valve mate. In danger of cracking the nuts

Kyle that's showing off using a big word like that.

 

[on31ll]

"Nout wrong with that" should be followed by "is there ?"

are you actually taking the mick here ? Is this a set up ?

What have you used ptfe tape atall ? Its a new fitting is it not ? Did you use copper olives ? This is an actual joke ! I wouldnt spend that money id save it for the excess on your PL insurence ! Best hope you have it since youve already strained the nut and as soon as it freezes ! POP !!

Go show this to your college see what they say !

 

[CXR100]

good to see he left some towels underneath that iso!! just in case !! 😛 !

 

[Kyle87]

Kyle that's showing off using a big word like that.

We're all clever in Leicester!!

 

[secret squirrel]

We're all clever in Leicester!!

Whats that I can smell bull.......? travels along way that smell lol

 

[Kyle87]

No that's squirrel 5h1t your covered in lol

 

[AWheating]

a compression fitting is designed to not need any paste or ptfe tape. Its only the fact that many are made poorly or there are slight pipe inperfections that we tend to use something for added peace of mind. I would normally recommend to use no paste or tape , because most use too much and make thing worse.

some pastes may not be suitable to use with tape, best to use either one or the other.

theres no point to putting tape on a compression fitting thread, it wont leak down a thread on these fittings as they are nowt to do with the water seal.

Please dont take any comments on the forum as a negative, we all learn from discussion of these things. There will be as many people reading the thread thinking i do the same as thinking you dont need to.

 

[AWheating]

We're all clever in Leicester!!

if your all clever why are you all still living there? 😉

 

[APS]

Who wants to start the bidding on whether he gets called back or not.

 

[APS]

£30 should have just about covered materials then looking at that. If compression fittings needed ptfe they would all be supplied with a roll when you buy one.

 

[Kyle87]

if your all clever why are you all still living there? 😉

Because the football team is carp. Keeps things quiet round ere

 

[Rickster123]

Fair play to you for putting he pic up and taking the criticism well. Not much I can add to the many many comments since. Put it down to experience and move on. Next time it will look very different.... WON'T IT?!

 

[secret squirrel]

Maybe the poor lad wasn't taught incorrectly maybe its his understanding of what he's learnt,

I don't think he believed his work to be slatted as bad as it has been, no one in there right mind would put up that pic knowing it was so bad.

With any luck he won't be scared to come back and ask a bit more......

 

[Kyle87]

Nothing wrong with making a mistake as long as you learn from it. We've all done something daft in the past.

I have stuck a 32mm core in the wrong place because I didn't draw clear lines.
I once got a woodchip in my eye because I didn't wear safety glasses using a circy saw. Had to pick it out with a knife.
I also forgot to cap off ALL the pipes on a bathroom first fix. Legged it back to stopcock when I heard water gushing from the pipes for thermo mixer shower.

Point is, make a mistake, live and learn!!

 

[Plum Bob 66]

Forget the PTFE, if compression fittings needed PTFE they'd come with a roll.

True, "if it squeaks it very seldom leaks"!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

went and done it today all done no paste tho:6:
But its beer money for the evening :8:

why is it bandaged up? is it mummified?

 

[plumber0808]

View attachment 13184

Oh Jesus that made me cry laughing. 🙂

 

[plumber0808]

High five supper plumb for posting that picture up, that takes some balls. you have also taken the criticism well.

good luck with the training and maybe keep the pictures to yourself next time.

 

[TBServices]

This thread is hilarious.

Supper Plumb, change your name to shoddy plumb, ditch your "mentor" as he is clearly a tit who shouldn't be allowed near clean water, then find a real plumber. You'll never learn anything from this guy if he can't even fit compression joints.

 

[stoker122]

Many years ago when I was the apprentice, I told the guvnor I didn't think the compression joints on rad valves needed paste.
He said fair enough fit them without any.
They then left me to drain down and remake all of the joints again as most of them leaked.
Needless to say I have always put a lick of paste on the shoulder of the fitting since.

 

[TerryWaite]

I'm working with a guy who uses PTFE on big screwed joints, he looks at me as if I'm soft when I pull a reel of loctite 55 out, PTFE is crap IMHO especially the cheap stuff and that photo made me laugh, definitely no PTFE on comp joints!!!

 

[ne1ls0n]

thats the best laugh i have had this month, where did you learn that? A+E? looks like its been in a crash

 

[PlumbBobBob]

when i saw the picture i said out loud "oh my good god" i wonder if he has shares in ptfe manufacture? that is just so wrong.

 

[SimonG]

when i saw the picture i said out loud "oh my good god" i wonder if he has shares in ptfe manufacture? that is just so wrong.

I was close, four foot snake, sprang to mind.

 

[Best]

Paste is needed for sealing olives - especially poor quality olives. As I always state, leaks can be microscopic & that is exactly what causes the slight corrosion on brass nuts & fittings & copper pipes & seized up nuts.
This thread has cheered me up! :smile:

 

[RGII79]

paste does little to seal olive it more most will seal without anything if done correctly and if they do just change them paste helps prevent the nuts seizing up.small dab of boss between thread and olive never fails

 

[erpkid]

Sorry to add a bit more fuel to this but am in midst of ebay argument with a German who bid on one of my lathes a 3/4 ton Colchester and he expects me to palletise and get it on the roadside for this carrier. This was advertised as collection only with assistance but this arrogant chap assumes an old uk plumber can lift this out of his workshop on a sloping site onto a pallet so he can pay by paypal then reverse the payment......scum.....rant off..............

Anyhow back to ptfe and paste.........I use a little paste but mainly to lubricate the threads so on nipping up your are experiencing resistance to the compression of the olive rather than the thread friction.

 

[glenno1]

Are you called supper plumb because you make a meal of it

 

[supper plumb]

PLUMBING TOOLS - Plumbing Tips - YouTube
legend about the PTFE part

 

[Killy Bing]

Sorry to add a bit more fuel to this but am in midst of ebay argument with a German who bid on one of my lathes a 3/4 ton Colchester and he expects me to palletise and get it on the roadside for this carrier. This was advertised as collection only with assistance but this arrogant chap assumes an old uk plumber can lift this out of his workshop on a sloping site onto a pallet so he can pay by paypal then reverse the payment......scum.....rant off..............

Anyhow back to ptfe and paste.........I use a little paste but mainly to lubricate the threads so on nipping up your are experiencing resistance to the compression of the olive rather than the thread friction.

we had a tool like that. Same scenario but we did load it onto the pallets.

He came with his mate to inspect it (cash on collection)
he was pretty....insulting and knocked us a 100 quid for the lathe.
He paid being quite smug, insultingly so.

His mate drops it! Tool couldent drive a widowmaker to save his life.
now its ruined.

he turns around and demands for his money back 😀
Err nah!
Ironic as if he hadn't knocked us the money we would have loaded it.

 

[Keefy]

PLUMBING TOOLS - Plumbing Tips - YouTube
legend about the PTFE part

He said use it round olives but mainly wrap it around threads...

There are certain times you may need to use it round an olive and that's normally on an already leaking compression fitting or an old one you've had to undo for whatever reason. As for wrapping it around threads, there are certain threads you will need to use it on and a compression fitting thread isn't one of them.

The plumbers on this forum aren't lying to you or winding you up, they're trying to help/teach you.


By the way, you could do with an avatar...

 

[firemant]

£30 should have just about covered materials then looking at that. If compression fittings needed ptfe they would all be supplied with a roll when you buy one.

Tell that to boiler part suppliers: stupidly expensive parts often arrive with none of the required seals and gaskets:sad:

 

[snowhead]

Cut pipe.
Slide on Nut
Slide on Olive
1 wrap of PTFE near the end of the pipe.
Slide olive on to it and 1 wrap PTFE over olive.

Now the Olive won't slip off, especially if in the vertical.

A touch of Blue on fitting threads over 28mm just to ease the effort required

 

[Gray0689]

PLUMBING TOOLS - Plumbing Tips - YouTube
legend about the PTFE part

Why lol

 

[Best]

Cut pipe.
Slide on Nut
Slide on Olive
1 wrap of PTFE near the end of the pipe.
Slide olive on to it and 1 wrap PTFE over olive.

Now the Olive won't slip off, especially if in the vertical.

A touch of Blue on fitting threads over 28mm just to ease the effort required

The olive to fitting contact will cut the ptfe tape to bits.
It will be better than putting nothing on the compression joint, but paste has to be better & is a fine sealant.
If using ptfe on olive, I would prefer to first compress the joint, then take apart & wrap 2 or 3 turns of tape over the entire olive.

 

[TerryWaite]

Do not PTFE olives. End of story.

 

[Avatar]

No PTFE or paste on compression joints at all and I don't get any leaks - if one weeps I pinch it up and job is done!

On the very RARE occasions a joint leaks persistently then I may use PTFE or LSX . . . .

 

[Best]

No PTFE or paste on compression joints at all and I don't get any leaks - if one weeps I pinch it up and job is done! . . . .

Surely you will have leaks if you do every compression joint dry?
A seized up fitting or one with a slight bit of white corrosion on the brass fitting or green at pipe is a leak, slight that it may be! I have never seen a job full of unpasted brass compression joints that hasn't leaks, especially with the cheap fittings nowadays.

 

[Keefy]

Surely you will have leaks if you do every compression joint dry?

Neve ever had one.

 

[Koogatubac]

Supper plumb,

You r a inspiration to us plumbers, why the hell have we spent years and years understanding the trade when you come and do jobs like this.

Seriously... Your obviously incapable of understanding the VERY basics in how a olive seals onto the pipe.

Give up plumbing or join a REAL plumber who can teach you.

This has to be a wind up...

 

[Keefy]

we spent years and years understanding the trade

If there's a 2mbar drop on a U6 with existing app...

 

[Koogatubac]

If there's a 2mbar drop on a U6 with existing app...

Wtf this about?! Lol

 

[Keefy]

Wtf this about?! Lol

Secret stuff.

 

[Koogatubac]

O god, just read it, im not getting involved lol cba

 

[Best]

Neve ever had one.

Never one leak? Not even microscopic leaks that appear as corrosion, weeks, months or years later?
Do you ever use standard compression fittings, or ballofix valves for example? You will have leaks without paste. There is no magic touch a plumber can do that will make tightening a nut a special leak proof job.

 

[Kyle87]

Never one leak? Not even microscopic leaks that appear as corrosion, weeks, months or years later?
Do you ever use standard compression fittings, or ballofix valves for example? You will have leaks without paste. There is no magic touch a plumber can do that will make tightening a nut a special leak proof job.

Stop bullying keefy or ill report you!!

 

[Keefy]

Never one leak? Not even microscopic leaks that appear as corrosion, weeks, months or years later?
Do you ever use standard compression fittings, or ballofix valves for example? You will have leaks without paste. There is no magic touch a plumber can do that will make tightening a nut a special leak proof job.

Still waiting for my first leak, it'll come one day I know that, but so far I've had none. For some reason though, I bought a tub of JetBlue today. Subliminal thought in my head from reading this thread I suppose?

I don't know why it's so hard to believe there are people out there who have always done their compression fittings right. I never leave a job without checking round every joint I've done.