Landlord possibly fake CP12

[familyshopper]

Hello there,

I am a tenant and I have a few problems with my, sometimes aggressive, landlord.

I was taken ill over the weekend with carbon monoxide poisoning. My entire family was.
We're okay now, as far as we know. An ambulance came. we were taken care of and have had a lucky escape.
The problem, it seems, is the boiler in the house we rent.
The landlord and a gas engineer (gas safe certified) came to see it yesterday and have turned it off, as well as the gas and we will be getting a new boiler soon.

Here lies the problem. I don't have a copy of a CP12. I honestly cannot remember being given one. I've been here over a year and have only had a gas engineer out once. That was September 2013.
The landlord is saying that he has the CP12 and will bring me a copy. He's also saying that the certificate is okay for another month.
I don't believe that he has one. If he does, then it would have run out in September. Neither of us can remember a time during last November where an engineer came out to do the checks and give us the certificate.
My husband and I don't have any emails, texts or other correspondence with him about it or about a gas engineer coming out to check the boiler and give us our copy of the certificate.
With regards to the "copy" that he's going to bring us. I suspect that it may be fake or doctored.
What can we do about this, if it is?

Is it possible that a copy could be doctored and changed?
How can this be [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]verified?
I know that it would have to be a really stupid gas engineer that would do that for somebody, but it might happen.
What checks can we do to check if the certificate is legitimate?

Thank you in advance.
P[/FONT]

 

[wildcard]

Hi There
Sorry to hear of your co poisoning,i hope you & your family are all well now.You should of been left/e-mailed or had your cp12 posted to you.If the gas engineer had carried out a cp12 there are 3 duplicate copies in the pad,one for you,one for the l/lord & one for the gas engineer.
The cp12 is valid for 12 months only from the date of issue,after this date it is invalid.
The cp12 will give you the engineers details & there gas safe number which can be verified by gas safe.
I would report this incident to the HSE & gas safe & they will investigate on your behalf.Do not let your l/lord bully you or intimadate you.If he is found to be neglegent,sue him for every penny he"s got.Do not forget he has put you & your family in grave danger!!

 

[diamondgas]

Check this out Important gas safety advice for landlords

Info on there should be of assistance. 🙂

 

[bigads28]

I would suggest you contact gas safe and the HSE. They can carry out all the necessary checks for you.

 

[Neil K]

Good you and your family are ok. Please keep us posted on the outcome of this

 

[Riley]

Wait and see if GS take any action. One would hope so. Very interested in the outcome of this

 

[julesverne]

Found this form on the Health and safety executive web site. You can use this report your landlord for failing to provide an annual gas safety record.
https://extranet.hse.gov.uk/lfserver/external/lgsr1
although i would report this to gas safe by calling them on

0800 408 5500

 

[oz-plumber]

Hi Familyshopper,

I'm not sure of the regs over there, but you have had a very, very close call.

If you and you and your family ceased due to CO poisoning, every authority under the sun would be investigating and prosecuting.

Just because you didn't cease - do not let this stop you from having a full investigation done and having whoever needs to be prosecuted, prosecuted.

You may not be so lucky next time.

Pretty dim view on things but CO poisoning is very serious - 2 kids died over here due to CO poisoning a couple of years back.

Absolutely horrible and totally avoidable.

Oz Plumber

 

[Reg Man]

Glad you are all OK. The emergency gas transporter (0800111999) should have been called and made your installation safe by capping the supply and this incident should have been reported to the HSE. An independent investigation would have been instigated at the gas suppliers cost. If the evidence has not been disturbed it is not to late to report this. If anything has been touched then it I will be difficult to complete an accurate reconstruction and investigation.

 

[Millsy 82]

It should be fairly straight forward to tell if a landlord gas safety certificate has been written up at a later date as they all have serial numbers on them. So if someone was stupid enough to do it and you got gas safe involved a quick look at the companies cp12 around that time will tell them.

I would 100% call gas safe and get them involved as you could of died. If the landlord didnt get it checked then what do you think he is going to do when it comes to a new boiler? probably cheapest quote going.

 

[Halesowen1]

You had a lucky escape.

 

[morganb]

Do they have to have a serial number, even if it did surely you can just claim you found a spare cert loose. I've made my own PDF form to fill in, although I don't use it for landlords, I have considered it.

I don't know of any gas installer that would fake a CP12, the very fact a landlord is asking should set of alarm bells. There can't be anyone out there desperate enough to do this. OP if you do get a copy of the CP12, the engineers number will be on there, give them a call and ask if they're confident the cert if legit, as you've involved the HSE with a CO poisoning. You should be able to hear their arse clenching down the phone. Also check all the details on the Gas Safe website, there's a button to check an engineer/company is legit.

I can well believe a landlord would fake a CP12 himself there's examples every month in the Gas Safe mag, it's also easy enough to buy a pad of ebay, go on the gas safe website and get details of some poor sod and fill it in without him knowing.

Whatever happens, contact Gas Safe, who should get the HSE involved.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Hello
I certainly know of 2 prosecutions for Fake or altered CP12s.
- 1 was written in a book that had not been printed when the date was written. Another was altered. But it is possible for them to get away with a fake, Most people just aren't that clever or careful. - actually If he was clever and careful your boiler would have been checked within the last year and you would know about it.
-


Wait and see what he gives you.
There might be something obvious that makes it fake.
It is the HSE that you need to report your concerns to and they will investigate.
Also, I 'm sure you have now invested £20 or so in a Carbon Monoxide alarm - money well spent.

I am pleased you are safe and I hope you tell lots of people about your experience as many people are not aware of the risks and are not aware that low levels of CO might be making themill.
There are few deaths but 4,000 in the UK attend hospital A&E each year due to CO poisoning.

 

[AWheating]

did the engineer who came out to check with the landlord issue you some paperwork detailing the faults found?

 

[familyshopper]

did the engineer who came out to check with the landlord issue you some paperwork detailing the faults found?

Hi all and thanks for your comments and suggestions.

The new boiler has now been fitted. I took photos of the old boiler which had lots of soot around the inside of the outer casing...if that makes sense?

It's currently looking like the landlord doesn't have a CP12 and may not have had one for this property for over 12 months.

We're just looking into what would be the best course of action.

 

[Millsy 82]

Have you got one for this boiler? Also have they filled out the benchmark at the back of the installation manual.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Have you got one for this boiler? Also have they filled out the benchmark at the back of the installation manual.

You do not need a Gas Safety Inspection Report (CP12) for a new boiler or any new gas appliance. There must be an inspection report within 12 months of the install.

 

[Millsy 82]

You do not need a Gas Safety Inspection Report (CP12) for a new boiler or any new gas appliance. There must be an inspection report within 12 months of the install.

Are you 100% certain of that? I always thought it had to have one no matter what.

 

[Ermintrude]

You do not need a Gas Safety Inspection Report (CP12) for a new boiler or any new gas appliance. There must be an inspection report within 12 months of the install.

Only covers the new work and not existing appliances !

 

[kirkgas]

If there's only one appliance in a rented property then the notification is all that's required, doesn't matter when the current LGSC runs out, as the pipework etc doesn't even actually have to be recorded on the form, although most engineers do a TT and include it on the LGSC, so it's only when the boiler is one year old that a new LGSC will be required
It seems quite a lot,of engineers arent aware of this,