Thanks lads, lots of useful input into this. To be completely honest, I think my mind will be made up by how he reacts to me picking him up on sending me a text message rather than asking face to face, If he gets all defensive he will be out the door on the spot. Most jobs have a 3-6 month probation period to see if you are cut out for the work and keep the job, not one person I have asked today would have dared ask fro a pay rise after 3 months, and I have talked this over with lots of people. I am really taken aback by the cheek of him asking in this way.
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Those of you with apprentices
- Thread starter mfgs
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View the thread, titled "Those of you with apprentices" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
Here you go then, cos when I was a lad…….. of just turned 16 my weeks money as an apprentice plumber at Matthew Hall was £19.50 & "I had to pay mill owner for permission to come to work" oops sorry slipped into Monty python again.
Paul is correct in the ye olden days (only just before I started) you had to pay the master to take you on as an apprentice, your time lasted for seven years before you went in front of the guild of master plumbers & they decided if you were good enough to practise & allowed you in.
How times have changed !!!
One of the plus sides of paying was that the master was then responsible for boarding & feeding you for the seven years, any of you guys fancy looking after a teenage for seven years ? its bad enough when their your own.
M
Masood
You're learning some of the most valuable skills there are - self-discipline, independence, being able to work autonomously, taking responsibility. As Turnpin says, you seem to be taking all the best lessons from that and you seem like you'll do really well. Although if you're doing all that, and are L2 qualified then I think you should politely ask for some feedback on your value to your boss and discuss a bit of a raise..
Look on the bright side, at least you haven't had an apprentice ask you for a pay rise after 1 week!!!
Every apprentice who joins my business will be on minimum apprentice rate plus 20p per hour for the whole of their first year.
After the first year they have to go on minimum wage (unless they are under 19 in which case they get a bit longer to prove their worth). The government stipulate this and it puts a bit of pressure on apprentices to learn very quickly in the first year. If they can't do small jobs on their own at this point, they aren't worth paying minimum wage as far as my business is concerned. I would then let them go at this point.
Assuming they can be left to do small jobs after the first year, their pay is determined based on what they can earn the business in a day. I allow a 30% profit margin for the business in this, take off employer on-costs and then get what their wage should be from that. This is reviewed annually.
Every apprentice who joins my business will be on minimum apprentice rate plus 20p per hour for the whole of their first year.
After the first year they have to go on minimum wage (unless they are under 19 in which case they get a bit longer to prove their worth). The government stipulate this and it puts a bit of pressure on apprentices to learn very quickly in the first year. If they can't do small jobs on their own at this point, they aren't worth paying minimum wage as far as my business is concerned. I would then let them go at this point.
Assuming they can be left to do small jobs after the first year, their pay is determined based on what they can earn the business in a day. I allow a 30% profit margin for the business in this, take off employer on-costs and then get what their wage should be from that. This is reviewed annually.
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So what you are saying cr0ft is that their apprenticeship last for just one year then?
If you want cheap labour just take on a lad don't call it an apprenticeship.
Seen a few lads dumped on a site in there second year to install boilers & pipe work, thats not teaching them a trade, it is exploitation.
I think no apprentice should be left on their own on a job, when passed level 2 and they are an improver then maybe, for one thing its not what the custards are paying for
F
fogarty
Just a few years ago a new starter couldn't get a plumbing job without donating a kidney ,now it's like their doing you a favour. Tell him he can have a *** when you do especially if you don't smoke. If he's not up when you call in the morning ,drive on and don't pay him. With regard to phone I tell my wife not to ring unless someone's died.
Just an update. I went to pick him up this morning ready to have a chat with him about how he is really progressing and not how he thinks he is. Sat outside his house for 8 mins after texting him telling him I was outside ( I also told him yesterday what time I would be picking him up), so I drove off to the job. I got a text 5 minutes later asking where I was haha. My reply was I am at work where you should be, I waited for you and you never showed. I will give him a chance tomorrow to explain himself, but the writing could be on the wall for him. I could not make it any easier for him to get to work picking him up at his front door every day, if you cant be ready for the time I say then you aren't worth me spending any time on.
D
Dotty
Tell him you'll lift him at ridiculous o'clock........
M
Masood
Unbelievable. My local college has had to turn down so many candidates because they couldn't get an apprenticeship, and those who have one don't value it! Sad...
I blame the parents don't you.
*nods head knowingly*
E
Ermintrude
Foot in his arris and then if improvement doesn't last p45. End of
To a degree but you teach em all the manners and good intentions under the sun but when they go to school and pick up other kids bad habits some of em forget everything you've taught them and you have to start all.over again it seems sometimes
D
Dotty
that's no real excuse. I know for a fact we all picked up bad habits at one stage or another as kids, and they were rapidly knocked out of us.
The fault lies with the namby pamby hand wringing apologist society we're in now and the lazy fat arsed baby machines waiting for their five minutes on Jeremy Kyle. The lazy feckless fat spotty pizza faced scuzz ball who believes society should raise their kids!
What is needed is a return to the values of yesteryear when the village bobby would cuff your ear then your mum and dad cuff your other ear when you told them what had happened.
This is the great thing about this forum, we can always agree to disagree. I think the customer is paying to have a job done by someone who knows what they are doing. I place very little emphasis on bits of paper to be honest, much more on what someone can do properly and to a high standard.
I think most customers feel the same, it's just not something that's important to them. No one in 6 years has asked me if I am qualified (or to prove it) before they let me work in their home. I do not have an NVQ to my name, should I not be working in someone's home then?
my current apprentice is also my girlfriend. anyone else been in that situation?
You must be mad! I go to work to get away from mine! It's the only time I can drink tea and smoke in peace. Lol.
R
Rickster123
Takes all the fun out of top heavy customers!
N
newcastle phill
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Well he was actually ready this morning so he came to work. We had a chat first thing before we started on site and he was told that he is certainly not due a pay rise and wont be for some time, which he seemed quite shocked about despite me making this clear when taking him on in the first place. It was also pointed out the areas in which he needs to improve. All in all I think he no longer thinks he is at the standard he seemed to believe. He had a bit of a sulk in the morning and didn't really speak much, but perked up this afternoon. I am looking forward to hopefully seeing a change in his attitude to prove himself.
Sorry mate, sounds like your well ahead of me. Only thing I buy em is a coffee lol Mind you if your over 35 thats old to him. :tounge_smile:
No!! Did she become your girlfriend before or after you employed her. And are you old enough to be her dad or not??
Will need to know the answers to these questions before I know how to reply lol.
Nope, I was being rhetorical. My point I am trying to make though is just that I place very little value on qualifications and much more on what people can do and their work ethic/standards! No offence intended!
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T
TBServices
I can't be bothered. I've never had an apprentice who wasn't more hassle than they were worth. And training up the next generation of under cutting kids isn't exactly my priority - I can't imagine I'd have the means to keep a lad on once his wages had to go up.
That's a means to an end.
You just have to find the right kid / person.
I've done well out of the last couple of kids I have had.
When they are reliable, good workers they can be of benefit.
The hardest thing is keeping them on track...to many distractions.
Had one that had a mortgage - couldn't keep him away from work.
He used to get upset with me if I turned up late.
R
Ray Stafford
Yep - the finest kind of employee - a 28 yr old bloke with a mortgage he can't afford, 2 kids and pregnant wife. 🙂
So long as you keep paying him well, he will work like a duracell bunny.
interesting read. im thinking of taking a apprentice on! Not sure what to do now to be honest! I was thinking of going after a mature lad that wants to re-train!
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