2 Keston C40's

[j0mpst0rt]

Hi,
the flow rate is something i'm going to test this weekend for the cold water pressure.

the idea of the secondary cylinder working in the heating system system at the same time appeals. do you mean I could have both cylinders feeding the heating system and the hot water, i.e. outlet from cylinder 1 goes to waterh, outlet from cylinder 1 goes into heating one end, and outlet from cylinder 2 goes to heating other end of heating? (I know where it all starts and ends. is this possible? (I haven't thought about it.

 

[Sparkgap]

Hi,
the flow rate is something i'm going to test this weekend for the cold water pressure.

the idea of the secondary cylinder working in the heating system system at the same time appeals. do you mean I could have both cylinders feeding the heating system and the hot water, i.e. outlet from cylinder 1 goes to waterh, outlet from cylinder 1 goes into heating one end, and outlet from cylinder 2 goes to heating other end of heating? (I know where it all starts and ends. is this possible? (I haven't thought about it.

Eh??? The best way to have the system is both boilers in parallel feeding a flow and return to a low loss header, then from that header have another pump and a couple/three motorised valves to do the heating circuit and the two cylinders. The cylinders will also be in parallel. That way you get enough boiler power for the cylinders (they use about 20kW each), and if one boiler fails you aren't left in the lurch because part of the system isn't hooked up to the working one. Likewise with the cylinders, you'd be able to take one out of use for servicing without affecting the hot water too much.

 

[drip-dry]

Hi Amazing Plumber Brains!!!

I have 2 Keston C40's about to be commissioned (YEs I Know. BUt its a massive story i'm not going into).

I've been told horror stories about the cost of Keston C40's;So here's my questions:

1: ;What is the minimum cost to keep one going for an hour?
2: ;What is the maximum cost to keep one going per hour ?
3: ;If the standby is sitting there, does it have a cost to keep it going per hour ?
3: ;Is it wise to go for the largest cylinder possible? *

House its going into is, Kestons on ground floor and Cylinders on ground floor.

1 Kitchen, 22 radiators 8 bedrooms 7 bathrooms 1 flat of bedroom/kitchen/bathroom (3 rooms)
Also possible addition a top loft room which is capable of holding 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms (not yet).

I have zero money, and i'm only renovating this house because i have no choice, so using brass buttons to get it running.

I think replacing the kestons with a new system may not be a good idea, i have been given a cost of £4200 to commission the kestons including 2 300litre cylinders and to repair the piping where the thieves stole it.

I'm not asking about the price being fair, i'm just wondering if someone has a view of if the kestons dont work, what is the most financially best solution i can do and is there anything i can do for 4200 if i have to replace the kestons ?

Thanks a lot in advance.

Mike

i had a drug problem to once...,,

 

[j0mpst0rt]

I tried to have a problem like that once too, but my head wouldn't take it so I gave up trying to have a drug problem .

 

[j0mpst0rt]

I like your idea a lot makes sense and I'll ask the plumber to do this.

the low loss header is already there, both boilers feed intot he low loss header, we have motorised valves to do it, I just need the cylinders, so now it is looking like 300kw cylinders is going to be enough. so my acton is going to be: plumber- please get it working like sparkgap suggests, if both are working, shut down one until people are living in the property.
I have a dream of being there for Christmas.

can you have two different boilers feeding the low loss header, or that a crazy idea ?

 

[Sparkgap]

I like your idea a lot makes sense and I'll ask the plumber to do this.

the low loss header is already there, both boilers feed intot he low loss header, we have motorised valves to do it, I just need the cylinders, so now it is looking like 300kw cylinders is going to be enough. so my acton is going to be: plumber- please get it working like sparkgap suggests, if both are working, shut down one until people are living in the property.
I have a dream of being there for Christmas.

300 litres is more than plenty, the Megaflo brochure has 2x300 litre cylinders as suitable for 18 shower student accommodation or an 8 bed hotel.

can you have two different boilers feeding the low loss header, or that a crazy idea ?

Here's a typical layout. You could have a single pump circulating through both boilers but many of them these days have their own built-in jockey pumps. Also, if a boiler fails you can put a different one in its place.

 

[j0mpst0rt]

Your diagram reflects whats in the room. THanks for confirming that I can have different boilers. It provides me an escape route to non kestons and I've been suggested to look at the atags.

And Now: to appease a person who fixed a big problem in my house for free, he has offered me 2 RM Stelaflow 300's preplumbed. Are these ok to use ? instead of 2 x megaflo ? I know he will get a bit of profit from it, but it would also be my way of saying thankyou to him for the help he's has given me as well as keeping someone who has an interest? If they deliver similar, then i'm happy to go ahead with them.
I will measure the mains water pressure this weekend by pouring it into a big fat bucket lined with litres, I will see how many litres it fills up in one minute. whats a good rate and whats a bad (fail) rate in litres (or should I just go by pressure) ? And if I do have a bad rate, what do I do about it? I am under the believe that I have a second cold water point to the house too (just found a water pipe works even when the stopcock is closed off.

Now how do I say thank you to everyone here for being so darned helpful!
Mike.

 

[Sparkgap]

Your diagram reflects whats in the room. THanks for confirming that I can have different boilers. It provides me an escape route to non kestons and I've been suggested to look at the atags.

And Now: to appease a person who fixed a big problem in my house for free, he has offered me 2 RM Stelaflow 300's preplumbed. Are these ok to use ? instead of 2 x megaflo ? I know he will get a bit of profit from it, but it would also be my way of saying thankyou to him for the help he's has given me as well as keeping someone who has an interest? If they deliver similar, then i'm happy to go ahead with them.
I will measure the mains water pressure this weekend by pouring it into a big fat bucket lined with litres, I will see how many litres it fills up in one minute. whats a good rate and whats a bad (fail) rate in litres (or should I just go by pressure) ? And if I do have a bad rate, what do I do about it? I am under the believe that I have a second cold water point to the house too (just found a water pipe works even when the stopcock is closed off.

Now how do I say thank you to everyone here for being so darned helpful!
Mike.

Trouble with pre-plumbed stuff is it assumes a typical house and single cylinder. The pre-plumbed Stelflows have a pump and heating/HWS zone valves. From the sound of it you already have a heating pump(?) and there's no guarantee that the pump supplied on the Stelflow will be up to the job. Might be, but I don't know anything about your system. I suppose you could just remove and blank off the heating side and only use the HWS side but seems a bit of a waste.
If it was me I'd go for the plain Stelflow, single primary pump feeding the cylinders through two zone valves switched by the cylinder thermostats and with the pump switched by the aux contacts on the valves so it goes off when not needed. Keeps it separate from the heating pump and system.

 

[j0mpst0rt]

there is no heat pump attached yet. what sort of heat pump size/output/pressure do I need ?

I get the point that the pump on the cylinder may not be powerful enough if its for a number of showers and baths.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

there is no heat pump attached yet. what sort of heat pump size/output/pressure do I need ?

I get the point that the pump on the cylinder may not be powerful enough if its for a number of showers and baths.

your heating eng will get the pumps to fit / suggest what type and size is needed

 

[quality]

Heat pumps, unvented, loads of demand, not very good boilers,more than 3 bedrooms, large property I am not insinuating (no malice) but this is a job for a professional

 

[j0mpst0rt]

you are right, it does need a professional. i'm not touching anything myself. the good thing out of this appears, i have fromt he low loss header, something that works. the boilers, yes, very suspect, but for now, if they work it'll do. if they dont, i thing atags or valliant. i have to wait and see what i can get., but now, i dont want any more money than is critically needed to get people renting rooms. blame the plumber who went into prison and stole the equipment,a nd the thieves, who stoll the copper piping, and the 'manager' who spent the othe rmoney that was left.... i've come back a few years from my breakdown to stand up and face this task . i'm not baulking at it, but i have to do what i can with the minimum i have. if the kestons fire into life (even 1 of them), my budget remains intact and I can actually for a while celebarte, as it gets me over the hurdle of making the house 'liveable'. i earn money at a good rate, but not enough for now, a years time i can afford a new boiler, but not now.. although i have not yet costed the furnishing of the place yet.

Fingers cross, and I'm really hoping it will work. although my bank did call me yesterday to ask if everything was ok (they seen my bank balances plunge).

 

[j0mpst0rt]

No good news yet. I have to wait till monday to see if the gas goes in, and then we see if the Kestons work after that. But there are now choices, 2 Atags an AMV, I have choices if it doesn't work. One more question I have... Is it possible to 'Modulate' a Keston C40? i can't find anything that says the questions will work other than at 100% ?
But over the next two weeks, I got quite a few choices. ACV Headmaster (there are 5 on eBay, 3 Atags, one Ideal 75w, all at respectable costs. Any one got view on the ACV Heatmaster (it has a 600l tank inside it too).

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Worcester 162 or atag tbh

 

[snowhead]

One more question I have... Is it possible to 'Modulate' a Keston C40? i can't find anything that says the questions will work other than at 100% ?

C40 modulates itself to keep the output temp constant.

 

[j0mpst0rt]

Good Morning - Flue's for Keston C40. Where can I get them from ? I have the flu bits up to the 2inches sticking out of the top with hte grills on. I need now to extend them sothey go outside. They are 75mm wide. The keston docs say 'marley', can someone tell me where I can get the 4 flue's (2 boilers) from please ?
Finally for the humour of you plumbers. I do have the cylinders as well. and the pipework in the house is done. \
The plumber who was goign to work on it, is very ill so i'm still looking for a plumber and its november. I have all the parts for everything I believe now, I just need 1) Gas Registered person, and 2), plumb er to connect the cylinders to the boilers and the pipework. (Suffolk/Leiston/IP16.

 

[Sparkgap]

Good Morning - Flue's for Keston C40. Where can I get them from ? I have the flu bits up to the 2inches sticking out of the top with hte grills on. I need now to extend them sothey go outside. They are 75mm wide. The keston docs say 'marley', can someone tell me where I can get the 4 flue's (2 boilers) from please ?
Finally for the humour of you plumbers. I do have the cylinders as well. and the pipework in the house is done. \
The plumber who was goign to work on it, is very ill so i'm still looking for a plumber and its november. I have all the parts for everything I believe now, I just need 1) Gas Registered person, and 2), plumb er to connect the cylinders to the boilers and the pipework. (Suffolk/Leiston/IP16.

White waste pipe. That was one thing Kestons made a big point of when they came out that you could use ordinary plastic drain pipe for flues. Did a commercial job in an old folks home with 100mm grey soil pipe.

 

[stevetheplumber]

amazes me the size of project you can do with NO money

 

[j0mpst0rt]

Hi, can someone tell me where I can get flues for the keston c40's, i been told they 50mm. i need 4, and they need to just go directly out the same wall the frame the kestons are connected to . So I dont think more than a few inches is required.

any pointers greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Michael

Oh - Re Plumbers.... They say they come in 3's.... Today I now have 3 called all saying they can start tuesday (odd!). but I'm happy. They just asked me to get the flues, so they can come in and do everything straight way unless they get it, but they said they would do it cost.

 

[village idiot]

you are right, it does need a professional.

blame the plumber who went into prison and stole the equipment,a nd the thieves, who stoll the copper piping, and the 'manager' who spent the othe rmoney that was left.... i've come back a few years from my breakdown to stand up and face this task .

Fingers cross, and I'm really hoping it will work. (they seen my bank balances plunge).

So the plumber went to prison, then stole the equipment while he was in there? Schocking.
As for the 50mm 'flue pipe', you can get them from any plumbers merchants. Just go in and ask for 50mm waste pipe. But to be honest, why not let the plumber you select to do the job buy it? You say they have all agreed to supply it at 'cost', so what have you got to loose?