Advice on guesthouse plumbing

[Ashley Connell]

Firstly, I'd like to start by mentioning that I am not a plumber.

I have purchased a commercial property which I am converting into a guesthouse consisting of:

• 7 double en-suite rooms (3 on the ground floor, 4 on the first floor)
• 4 single rooms with share bathroom (all on the 2nd floor)

The plan is to have showers/sink/toilet in each of the 7 en-suite rooms, and one shared electric shower/sink/toilet for the 4 single rooms on the second floor.

There will be one shared kitchen.

Therefore 7 showers from the domestic hot water supply and 1 electric shower.

My main concern is maintaining water pressure if several guests are using facilities at the same time, namely the showers or the taps. Would a tank in the loft be enough?

I'm guessing hot water storage would be required, how much would be recommended?

If anyone can provide advice on the best setup, I would be really grateful. Of course I will be employing a plumber, although I haven't found one just yet.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Best option is to get a m and e firm in to design the system

And then a set of commercial engys to install it

 

[Ashley Connell]

Best option is to get a m and e firm in to design the system

And then a set of commercial engys to install it

I wanted to keep costs to a minimum, but willing to pay this if the cost is reasonable, for peace of mind. If anyone can recommend any reasonable priced firms, please let me know.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

There's cheap

And then there's a system that will work upto you to choose which one

 

[Scott_D]

What's your plumbing budget?

 

[Ashley Connell]

What's your plumbing budget?

I'm not sure, but I would expect around £8k?

 

[Ashley Connell]

There's cheap

And then there's a system that will work upto you to choose which one

I need a system that works, that's why I am here. Without over doing it, hence keeping costs to a minimum, but no means cutting corners. Whatever it costs, it costs.

 

[Murdoch]

I need a system that works, that's why I am here. Without over doing it, hence keeping costs to a minimum, but no means cutting corners. Whatever it costs, it costs.

How did you come up with £8k without consulting anyone?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm not sure, but I would expect around £8k?

Honestly I would expect it to run around 15-20k depending on spec

 

[SimonG]

Although there's the brains and experience to be able to do this on here get it designed by a company.

If you are doing this size of a job then this is not an area to minimise costs.

Can't expect to come onto a forum and get it designed free of charge.

 

[Ashley Connell]

How did you come up with £8k without consulting anyone?

I am consulting people, now, on here. So I'm not sure why I was asked how much I think it would costs, then to be asked how I invent a figure.

My main purpose here is to establish what kind of system is required to maintain water pressure at peak demand.

@ShaunCorbs thanks, I realise I might be under budget, I don't have much experience in this.

 

[Murdoch]

Out of interest what’s your budget for the electrics and the necessary fire alarm control system?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Do you know your mains water pressure and flow you can ask the water board what in the street etc

 

[Scott_D]

Large unvented cylinder, maybe 2
Booster pumps and a water storage
Secondary return

A decent sized boiler, maybe 2 smaller so you have a back up.
Multiple heating zones

 

[Ashley Connell]

Out of interest what’s your budget for the electrics and the necessary fire alarm control system?

£8k. Already have a quote and someone ready to start. All been designed by an architect with the exception of plumbing.

 

[Murdoch]

£8k. Already have a quote and someone ready to start. All be designed by an architect with the exception of plumbing.

That sounds cheap .... even adding on VAT ..... and architects don’t have a clue about the finer details beyond placing symbols on a set of drawings .....

 

[Ashley Connell]

That sounds cheap .. even adding on VAT ... and architects don’t have a clue about the finer details beyond placing symbols on a set of drawings ...

Maybe true about architects and electrics, but it's been approved by building control. The building is stripped back, so no lifting of floor boards etc.

 

[chris watkins]

£8k. Already have a quote and someone ready to start. All been designed by an architect with the exception of plumbing.

Bester find yourself a Plumbing company to do the D&B on the quick then, otherwise the sparks will not be putting the power supplies in for the booster pump etc. What did they price for if they didn't know what the Mechanical requirements were? I can see that £8k getting higher with all them extras.
Stop wasting time trying to cut the cost & get it done properly , trying to do it cheap normally results in a greater cost.

 

[Welder]

Ashley.

This is a business you are putting together here. If wish to have performance & reliability and become renowned for providing quality then that simply cannot be done on a shoestring.

Fact is, your requirements are those of a hotel. You need appropriate expertise for that. NO architect I have ever encountered has sufficient knowledge or understanding to help in this instance. You are by far & away best to engage an M&E contractor with whom you can work for the long term (thinking maintenance here too).

This will cost you in the short term. However, judicious choice of kit & systems will see costs of ownership over time orders of magnitude lower than a cheap initial install. Further, a quality install will enhance reputation meaning improved charge out rates.

EDIT:
BTW. BC have no idea either. They tick boxes at best and care not a jot whether your system works or not. Neither do you have any recourse when they are (often) wrong

Your business. Your choice. Dont make the wrong one.

 

[heliotrope]

Thimk you should be looking for further quotes.

6- 6.8k tops for this work.

See rip off here.

 

[BruceK]

I have a similar-sized guest house/B&B. I use standard domestic indirect hot water cylinders (x 6) working in pairs, with large cold water header tanks (x 4) in the attic. I found it best to zone my central heating and so have 6 zones, two on each floor of a 3 storey building. The property is heated by 3 x LPG boilers (2 smaller models ~Myson Economists working side by side and one larger one ~Ideal Concord which, on its own will heat half the property). These boilers do heat water for the shower/bathrooms (x12), but the cylinders also have immersion heaters which, though expensive, are cheaper to run (where possible using Economy 7 and Evening and Weekend tariff) than LPG. I also have a solid fuel Aga, which helps with the hot water for 2 of the cylinders and a large Coalbrookdale Darby, a multifuel stove, in the residents' lounge which is lit every winter evening and burns logs and coal mix. This stove, which the residents love, is connected to the central heating system via a H2 panel, which is an excellent way of safely linking up boilers of different types and also helps heat 2 of the cylinders. Once it reaches temperature, the 2 Myson boilers click out and the stove maintains heat, with the boilers clicking in and out as necessary.
Hope this helps.
BruceK

 

[Rob Foster]

Maybe true about architects and electrics, but it's been approved by building control. The building is stripped back, so no lifting of floor boards etc.

Where about about are you ?
I may have a contact nearby, this is the kind of stuff myself and people I associate with do
I am busy but might be able to help
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Welder]

Thimk you should be looking for further quotes.

6- 6.8k tops for this work.

See rip off here.

Lets look at some minimal HW kit requirements here:
2 x 400 litre UVCs indirect with direct for PV solar preheat to minimise running costs
35mm copper primary pipework
15/22mm return loop
ALL primary & return properly insulated to reduce consumption
Properly sized incoming main or appropriately sized tank and booster pump set (obv latter gives more consistent performance)
Controls (small BMS by time boilers added
Boilers x 2 for water alone for redundancy
PV

Quick & dirty on that for reasonable not good kit is 12K WITHOUT installation...

Admittedly you dont have to have PV. However having it will make a very serious dent in your fossil fuel energy usage over time and pay back as well as adding to resale value.

You can go for cheap up front for items like cylinders but all you'll do is spend again 5 yrs in.

I'd run a mile from low quotes unless you selling in 12 months.

 

[Ashley Connell]

Where about about are you ?
I may have a contact nearby, this is the kind of stuff myself and people I associate with do
I am busy but might be able to help
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

I'm in Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire

 

[rpm]

11 bedrooms and 1 kitchen sounds kinda cosy.

 

[Ashley Connell]

11 bedrooms and 1 kitchen sounds kinda cosy.

Thank you for your advice, I'm so glad I joined this forum when I read relevant posts like this! A few members have been very helpful, but apart from that the responses have been disappointing.
FYI the kitchen is huge.

 

[Welder]

Thank you for your advice, I'm so glad I joined this forum when I read relevant posts like this! A few members have been very helpful, but apart from that the responses have been disappointing.
FYI the kitchen is huge.

Pray tell what do you class as helpful?

 

[Ashley Connell]

Pray tell what do you class as helpful?

Mainly your posts to be fair. Also BruceK

 

[Welder]

Mainly your posts to be fair. Also BruceK

Thank you. 🙂

To be fair however few people come here with an open mind. Most come to have their (often misguided) belief systems reinforced so reject anything else. This is the point most of us here come from. Somewhat cynically I admit, but its more often a protection mechanism.

This is genuinely one of the best (real world) advice forums I know of. 😉

If you genuinely want advising on suitable systems, I can put you in touch with someone highly competent & reliable. Just DM me.

 

[Rob Foster]

I'm in Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire

Out of my sphere of influence I am sorry. However I could produce a working mes diagram of how I would approach it with some global,prices next Saturday if you want , and my Saturday does not get eaten up by narrowboats Rob Foster Aka centralheatking

 

[Ashley Connell]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all your advice. Rob Foster, that would be fantastic, but not to worry if you don't get enough time.

 

[Scott_D]

Out of my sphere of influence I am sorry. However I could produce a working mes diagram of how I would approach it with some global,prices next Saturday if you want , and my Saturday does not get eaten up by narrowboats Rob Foster Aka centralheatking

Post it up if you do
Would be good to have a look.