Brand New To Forum Hoping For Help

[The Carlton Dance]

Redecorate the wall, clean up those radiator valves with metal polish ( or even respray them with a chrome spray) and then at a later date (summer?) employ somebody who'll have the right tools and who knows what they are doing. It's a relatively small job that shouldn't cost too much in labour and you've already wasted hours posting here already. As very practical folks that are used to problem solving we get a sense of a persons ability and it would be fair to say given your posts and the responses given that no-one else has a great deal of confidence in your ability either. Please take heed of the advice given and get someone in if you insist on renewing those radiator valves, if you get yourself into trouble what we fear most is your ability to get yourself out of it.

I appreciate your concern and for now I am going to fix the wall and pop the radiator back on, hopefully without leaks (having disturbed other joins along the chain).

However I would like to teach myself some plumbing and that is why I'm here.
You claim I'm wasting my time writing but it's only because you aren't giving me any information. You are essentially creating a self fore-filling prophecy.

Perhaps the best way for me to not waste my time and for you to not waste yours in turn, would be to help teach me how not to, get into a bad situation.
So for example, you could tell me, drain the system first, that will stop flooding.
Putting a hose on a drain valve that is controlled prior to its fitting by the valve on a radiator and at worse shutting off the mains riser and if that doesn't work, having the mains in the road ready to be switched off, is a sensible approach to not flooding my house.

I mean how many more things in a chain have to go wrong before even a pro plumber will be panicking? I mean all of them would have to simultaneously have to go wrong, including the street valve malfunctioning. I think that's highly unlikely.

If I get to the point where I cannot turn off the mains in the road, then what would a plumber do anyway, apart from have insurance, which I already have.

It's not like Im trying to take off the mains riser tap here or install new valves in my airing cupboard. Im simply trying to take off a radiator and change the valves.

Im good at picking up information, Im careful in what I do and I watch hours of youtube videos and read tons of stuff before doing so. If I think something is too risky, I wont do it.

Everyone else here is being pretty damn helpful and have already given me due warning and probably sage advice on getting a pro as part of their input.

If you still think I'm missing anything then with respect, please help me by telling me.

Regards.

 

[The Carlton Dance]

The Altech valves pack are inexpensive and in my opinion as nice looking as any valve and seem good enough quality. They are also fully compatible with most other high chromed standard valves, so easy to swap the valve bodies in the future.
I have installed some of same valves and so am speaking from my experience of them. Time will tell if they last well.
The Danfoss valves are a well known top quality brand and probably a good choice. Note that the Danfoss bodies are not the same as normal valves, plus pipes depth of Danfoss valves are less, so wouldn’t be just a direct swap to another brand body if ever needed.

Interesting!

The bodies do look a little different. I am aware that the piece that goes into the radiator needs to be as close to the valve body as possible to get the best seal. I will buy both sets and offer them up, or take measurements of the length and reach (into radiator) of both.

I actually prefer the more high chrome look of the first choice over the slightly duller look of the latter although will compare internals and warranties. The Danfoss only offer 2 year but have copper inserts.

Thank you very much for this info. Very helpful.

 

[The Carlton Dance]

Another quick tip if you cant get the old nuts & olives off the pipe you could check to see if new valves fit the old nuts quite often they do so if your happy to leave the old nuts/olives in place do that.

Great tip JTS but those nuts look pretty bad. I have tried cleaning them up with wire wool and didn't get much success. They seem to have pitted in places beyond repair (for decorative purposes).

The olive is going to be the real bugger on this, I know it but I think I will be able to get them off without damaging the pipe, if I'm careful.

If I do have to cut the pipe I am correct in assuming I can simply lower the radiator by an equal distance or do radiators need to all sit a certain height?

Would be interested to know. Although I could probably simply go upstairs and measure the height of them all lol

It's funny how much you can work out by simply typing the question. Once the idea gets out of your head and onto paper (paper lol), the answer becomes much more obvious, or at least a solution to it.

Regards.

 

[Riley]

Those TRV packs are ok. Will do the job. You don’t want them turning down to zero as this is frost protection should temperatures really plummet. As long as the valves are bidirectional it doesn’t matter which way you have them round

 

[The Carlton Dance]

Those TRV packs are ok. Will do the job. You don’t want them turning down to zero as this is frost protection should temperatures really plummet. As long as the valves are bidirectional it doesn’t matter which way you have them round

Thank you for the input. Could you explain why bi directional valves make it ok to switch sides. I do believe you, I'm simply curious as to why it works.

I haven't yet fully understood how the heating system works. For example, one radiator doesn't lead on to the next because i can take off a radiator and still keep the heating system flowing.

Obviously this means there are pipes that carry the heating system past the radiators regardless of their connection but I simply haven't designed my own system and therefore cannot seem to fully imagine or understand it.

Do you have any good literature to hand?
Or know any software programmes that allow you to make such a simulation?

Regards.

 

[Best]

You can buy an olive splitter.
It will split the olive without damaging the pipe. Monument do one that looks similar to a metal clamp. But the cost of buying it would pay a plumber. 🙂

 

[Riley]

Bidirectional means just that. You can have it on the flow or return side so water can pass through it into the rad or out of the rad through the valve and they will still give you heat control.

Sounds like you will have a two pipe system a flow and a return carcass. Each rad will have a tail linked to the flow and one to the return meaning that should you shut off or remove a rad the hot water will still circulate to the other radiators. What you describe is a one pipe system and it’s best not to over complicate things with talking about that

 

[Riley]

Google Image Result for http://www.home-heating-systems-and-solutions.com/images/two-pipe-reverse-return-layout.jpg

 

[The Carlton Dance]

You can buy an olive splitter.
It will split the olive without damaging the pipe. Monument do one that looks similar to a metal clamp. But the cost of buying it would pay a plumber. 🙂

I have prime should I grab it? And is this a good one? Obviously need to check my pipe diameters first.

Thanks for the tip. £25 seems reasonable. And I will have up to a month to return it (obviously unused cough).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monument-2...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0001P0FFY

 

[The Carlton Dance]

Google Image Result for http://www.home-heating-systems-and-solutions.com/images/two-pipe-reverse-return-layout.jpg

Ahh I see. yes judging by the pump layout it would appear you are correct (as you already know).

Thanks for the share. I haven't quite yet worked out why this system allows for omni directional in and out or bi flow, but I do now understand how the water is carried past the radiator.

Excellent.

 

[Riley]

The water will only go round one way however some Trvs only worked in one direction and as such needed to be on the flow side.

 

[The Carlton Dance]

The water will only go round one way however some Trvs only worked in one direction and as such needed to be on the flow side.

I think I was getting hung up on the idea that, if what regulates the radiator is on the exit valve then how does it regulate the radiator with a uni directional flow but it makes sense now.

Even if the water flows one way, the valve is measuring the room temp and the will shut the water off at the end not the beginning.

In effect the same difference just at a later stage in the process but with the same result.

And of course, the valve being bi directional means it doesn't matter which way the water passes through it, which then begs the question (for the more nerdy person), what made a vale uni directional in the first place. I would have though they all would be bi directional but obviously not.

Don't worry you don't have to answer that.

Cheers, that's been really helpful!

 

[Best]

I have prime should I grab it? And is this a good one? Obviously need to check my pipe diameters first.

Thanks for the tip. £25 seems reasonable. And I will have up to a month to return it (obviously unused cough).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monument-2...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0001P0FFY

That isn’t the one I meant, although it will do the job. My mistake, - I should have said Rothenberger olive splitter, which looks like a little vice and I prefer it, plus it works on 15mm and 22mm and 28mm.
But the Monument tool will also work, but limited to one pipe size.

 

[Best]

My favourite tool, -
Rothenberger Olive Splitter | eBay

 

[The Carlton Dance]

My favourite tool, -
Rothenberger Olive Splitter | eBay

Thanks Best. I've popped it in my basket for when it comes to changing valves.
I would point out though that it only does 15mm and up, not under, so no 10mm etc.
It certainly seems better to have one of those than a purely dedicated width as you say.

Im also looking to move some pipes around. Could you suggest a cheap but good blow torch system. I see you can get heads that screw on to cans but the heads vary widely in price.

Im hoping for something around £25?

P.s where in the uk are you based roughly?

 

[Riley]

Thanks Best. I've popped it in my basket for when it comes to changing valves.
I would point out though that it only does 15mm and up, not under, so no 10mm etc.
It certainly seems better to have one of those than a purely dedicated width as you say.

Im also looking to move some pipes around. Could you suggest a cheap but good blow torch system. I see you can get heads that screw on to cans but the heads vary widely in price.

Im hoping for something around £25?

P.s where in the uk are you based roughly?

Have you soldered before

 

[The Carlton Dance]

Have you soldered before

Hey Riley.

Yes I have I'm into Arduino's and robotics. Im also aware of how to prepare a copper pipe and how to join them using solder and osmoses. If i;ve got the correct term, i.e allowing the solder to be sucked up into the joint by itself.

I'd probably do a test piece first and put it under some sort of pressure to check for leaks in my method but other than that I don't see it being as much of a problem as say not flooding the house (i.e correctly draining the system or leaving a bleed valve open on refiling).

 

[Riley]

Capillary action is what you’re after

 

[Best]

Thanks Best. I've popped it in my basket for when it comes to changing valves.
I would point out though that it only does 15mm and up, not under, so no 10mm etc.
It certainly seems better to have one of those than a purely dedicated width as you say.

Im also looking to move some pipes around. Could you suggest a cheap but good blow torch system. I see you can get heads that screw on to cans but the heads vary widely in price.

Im hoping for something around £25?

P.s where in the uk are you based roughly?

I am in the Best place. 🙂
Northern Ireland.
To answer your question of what would be a good cheap blow torch, - truth is you probably need to pay a bit more to get a "good" torch.
The Rothenberger Surefire 2 is what most plumbers recommend. It is reliable and produces a small powerful flame and doesn't flare up. Probably cost you about £50 for the bare torch. Or you can buy it in a Rothenberger choice of plumbing tool kits for little more, making that a better option in my opinion.