Condensate pipe terminates into neighbours gutter, is this ok?

[Fiona]

Hi everyone! We recently had a new condensing combi boiler installed but the downstairs neighbours are concerned the condensate pipe has not been installed correctly and will cause damage. It runs outside, drops about 2m to run off in their bay window gutter. We will eventually run the pipe internally in a year or so when we redo the kitchen but wanted to make sure that the current installation of the condensate pipe is adequate/correct until we can relocate it to inside. Is this current install ok? If not, what alternatives are there for a temporary external install?

Thanks so much for your help!

Fiona

 

[steadyon]

You can't run condensate into a rainwater run off unless its a shared (foul and surface water) sewer system. Condensate is mildly acidic and should be run into a foul sewer or through a condensate neutraliser into a soakaway.

In addition, when run externally it should be in 32mm or 40mm pipe, not overflow pipe (as yours is), which is narrow and likely to freeze in winter.

You can get condensate pumps, and possibly one of these could be fitted and used to pump the condensate to a suitable outlet on your own property.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Also while we are at it, it does not look like you flue has been sealed correctly externally.

 

[Harvest Fields]

And what is the pipe on the right hand side for?

 

[gassafe]

If it's not your property gutter then I understand the neighbours concern, not to mention it looks a real mess & a poor installation.

I'd suggest an internal condensate pump

 

[Best]

Crikey! That's an eyesore, temporary or not! And the higher it exits, the more pipe is showing.
Why was it not done temporary internally into your existing kitchen?

 

[Fiona]

Thanks so much for your replies everyone. Unfortunately it hasn't left me feeling very confident about our installer especially if the flue hasn't sealed correctly also.

We live in London so that's why he thought a thicker pipe wouldn't be necessary maybe?

Harvest Fields - from what I was told it is a pipe to take care of overheating and has been connected to the new boiler. It runs down the property and into a gully.

Gassafe - Technically it is, because its two flats in a converted terrace house and both have share of freehold. So if any damage were to occur whether our fault or not we would be responsible for costs to rectify.

Best - After emailing our installer about it initially afterwards he said "it can be installed into your kitchen waste pipe but it would be on show in your kitchen which i was trying to avoid". At the time I appreciated his efforts as there is no clearance and he would need to cut into the worktop but now its looking like he will have to come back and do this anyway.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Any chance of a few pics of the boiler / install itself?

 

[Fiona]

I'm not at home but got my partner to send these through...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If you don't mind ball park figure on how much you paid

Also have a look in the back of the manufactur instructions, you should see a section called benchmark is this filled out ?

 

[Fiona]

it was £2500 for new boiler and 3 new radiator valves from what I can remember. I don't have the paperwork on me so will have to wait until I get home to double check. He came recommended from a electrician we know so very surprised he hasn't done things right. We've got him coming back on Friday morning to fix the pipe (move it internally) and he said this about the flue -

"the external flue has a rubber seal which is an internal fitting kit which is sufficient as per manufacturer instructions and made good with cement internally"

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sounds a bit much for a low end boiler (mean low low end)

Has he flushed the central heating system

Also his statement would be true if there isn't a gap all the way round (as you can see in your pics)

 

[Harvest Fields]

To be honest not the worst install I have seen, but could be a lot more tidy. Running the condense pipe to the sink would not have made that much difference to you looking at that. Should always be ran internally where possible and that is definitely possible. There is a few basic things that should have been done really. I would call him back to fix them.

 

[Darren Jackson]

it was £2500 for new boiler and 3 new radiator valves from what I can remember. I don't have the paperwork on me so will have to wait until I get home to double check. He came recommended from a electrician we know so very surprised he hasn't done things right. We've got him coming back on Friday morning to fix the pipe (move it internally) and he said this about the flue -

"the external flue has a rubber seal which is an internal fitting kit which is sufficient as per manufacturer instructions and made good with cement internally"

Hi Fiona and welcome to the forum, I'm sorry to say this but your installer is talking a load of rubbish!
1, The flue has to be sealed internally and externally, yours is not sufficiently sealed externally. (risk of dangerous products of combustion entering the building and cavity.
2, Incorrect external condensate pipe size ( risk of freezing & not to manufactures spec or regulations.
3, Incorrect condensate termination, not to manufactures spec or regulations.

If they could not even get the condensate discharge correct and seal the flue correctly I dread to think what other corners they have cut!
May suggest you ring Gas Safe & ask them to inspect the installation it is a free service & tell them you are concerned about the installation.

Also there is a kitchen sink & a washing machine just below the boiler why on earth did they just not drill a 22mm hole in the back of your work top and simply connect the condensate to your internal waste from the sink or Washing machine is beyond me.

 

[Fiona]

Hi Darren, Thanks for your feedback. We have him booked in to fix the pipe this Friday morning. Would it be worth contacting Gas Safe (he is registered) before or after then?

 

[Darren Jackson]

As long as they address the main points we have raised & do not charge you any money for correcting the faults and you are happy with the install then maybe not. Just incase you did not know this but all boilers have to be registered and your installer will do this for you, You will receive a certificate from Gas Safe themselves usually in a week or two, a month at the most.If you do not get one through the post then ring Gas Safe to make sure it has been registered and ask then for the free inspection. You will also need this for the guarantee. You have in my opinion all ready well over paid for the work) and that boiler is just a cheap budget low end (£450 Inc timer & Flue) thing that most installers would not even dream of supplying. And For the money you have paid I hope they spent a day power flushing the system before the new boiler went in, used a good quality cleanser & inhibitor chemicals and they installed a magnaclean filter which is pretty much standard practice nowadays.

 

[gpbeck]

This is why we need this forum.
Is the long discharge pipe 'cos he didn't have a ladder?

 

[Admin]

I'm not a plumber or gas engineer but that white pipe not being straight is causing OCD issues. Lol

 

[Chalked]

Anyone notice the 15mm gas.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Anyone notice the 15mm gas.

Yep but depending on a few as its only a 24kw combi should be ok

 

[townfanjon]

Also there is a kitchen sink & a washing machine just below the boiler why on earth did they just not drill a 22mm hole in the back of your work top and simply connect the condensate to your internal waste from the sink or Washing machine is beyond me.

Apologies , I have not read all the posts but as Darren suggests this is so simple its untrue .

 

[Scott_D]

http://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mcalpine-flexible-condensate-pipe-kit/7751p
Would have saved lots of hassle

 

[moonlight]

And what is the pipe on the right hand side for?

Looks like pressure relief?

 

[townfanjon]

McAlpine Flexible Condensate Pipe Kit
Would have saved lots of hassle

Blinding Scott , I didnt know they did those

 

[Harvest Fields]

Just

http://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mcalpine-flexible-condensate-pipe-kit/7751p
Would have saved lots of hassle

I have actually used these when I was on the books. the local council used to order them for the boiler swaps. They are ok but in my opinion. I prefer 21.5mm rigid pipe inside. Less to go wrong

 

[Harvest Fields]

Anyone notice the 15mm gas.

I did but never fitted one of these boilers before so was not sure if the connector into the gas was 15mm or not.

 

[moonlight]

I haven't seen such a poor installation before.
You need to get them back to finish the job. The water from the condense is acidic and lead flashing does not like acid. No wonder you neighbour is not happy.
Did they fill in the benchmark in your boiler book.
Was the person who installed this GSR.
They obviously didn't know the basics.
How can it be signed off?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Just

I have actually used these when I was on the books. the local council used to order them for the boiler swaps. They are ok but in my opinion. I prefer 21.5mm rigid pipe inside. Less to go wrong

Agree wouldn't use one even if I had no other choice

 

[Scott_D]

Agree wouldn't use one even if I had no other choice

They are perfect for getting round the back of kitchen cupboards. Always best to hrd pipe where you can but the flex will get you out of a tight spot

 

[Scott_D]

Is the filling loop on the hot?????????

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They are perfect for getting round the back of kitchen cupboards. Always best to hrd pipe where you can but the flex will get you out of a tight spot

I fine they block more easily due to the ribs and they dip very easily as there's no strength to them

Had to replace a load of them for the local council

 

[Harvest Fields]

I fine they block more easily due to the ribs and they dip very easily as there's no strength to them

Had to replace a load of them for the local council

Probably the ones that I fitted 😀😀

 

[Harvest Fields]

Is the filling loop on the hot?????????

Possibly is. It looks that way. Good spot

 

[Chalked]

Pipe size nothing to do with connection size.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Pipe size nothing to do with connection size.

I meant that I couldn't see if the gas isolation valve was 15mm or 22mm. So did not comment

 

[moonlight]

Possibly is. It looks that way. Good spot

I have never seen one of these, I would always look at the installation documents.
They are filling the heating system from the hot water. .

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I have never seen one of these, I would always look at the installation documents.
They are filling the heating system from the hot water. .

Gloworm re badge

 

[moonlight]

Gloworm re badge

Thanks ShaunCorbs. I don't fit those either.

 

[goz666]

Nice bit of bonding wouldn't go amiss either, looks like pants if I'm honest.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Nice bit of bonding wouldn't go amiss either, looks like pants if I'm honest.

may i ask why, the case is metal, so if the pipes are bonded at source eg water and gas no need to bond at boiler

 

[Harvest Fields]

may i ask why, the case is metal, so if the pipes are bonded at source eg water and gas no need to bond at boiler

I do agree with you mate. But looking at the quality of the install, I would not be prepared to take that fact as a given. Safe electrical isolation would be the first thing that I did on that one before I did anything else.

 

[goz666]

Something we always do Shaun as a matter of course in areas of humidity or areas around sinks etc. If it was away from the sink or kitchen, off in a cupboard somewhere I wouldn't bother.

 

[Darren Jackson]

Is the filling loop on the hot?????????

Good spot Scott it is on the hot isn't it. Another defect to add to the list that needs correcting.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I do agree with you mate. But looking at the quality of the install, I would not be prepared to take that fact as a given. Safe electrical isolation would be the first thing that I did on that one before I did anything else.

so you would bond all the pipes together that arnt earthed anywhere, theres no point

 

[Darren Jackson]

Anyone notice the 15mm gas.

I do think, but not 100% sure without checking Mi's that you can run upto a meter of gas pipe in 15mm. Providing it's not under gassed and pressure loss is no more than 1mbar from gas meter to inlet. And gas rate checks out. They did gas rate it didn't they!!! Surley they did.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Something we always do Shaun as a matter of course in areas of humidity or areas around sinks etc. If it was away from the sink or kitchen, off in a cupboard somewhere I wouldn't bother.

that make no sense, so you would bond the sink top, baths , rads in bathrooms etc

 

[Harvest Fields]

so you would bond all the pipes together that arnt earthed anywhere, theres no point

No mate. Something BG hammered into me. I would test for bonding and if there was not any I would instruct the customer that they need it doing at the gas meter. At least then the boiler would be bonded.

 

[goz666]

We bond the five pipes under the boiler, it came about years ago during a Corgi inspection and the Inspector asked us why the boiler hadn't been bonded across the pipework when it was in a kitchen almost the same as the one in the pic, we explained that it wasn't something we did and he said from now on in areas of high humidity I want to see the boiler pipework bonded. Done it ever since, right or wrong we still do it.

 

[Darren Jackson]

We don't cross bond anymore 17th threw that one out. Main ecopotential only and a must.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No mate. Something BG hammered into me. I would test for bonding and if there was not any I would instruct the customer that they need it doing at the gas meter. At least then the boiler would be bonded.

as they used to charge more for it at the boiler and then charge for the main 🙂

 

[ShaunCorbs]

We bond the five pipes under the boiler, it came about years ago during a Corgi inspection and the Inspector asked us why the boiler hadn't been bonded across the pipework when it was in a kitchen almost the same as the one in the pic, we explained that it wasn't something we did and he said from now on in areas of high humidity I want to see the boiler pipework bonded. Done it ever since, right or wrong we still do it.

did you ask him why ????? elec regs dont require it or gas regs

 

[goz666]

Nah Mate just did it, must admit though in this area most boilers we go to have been bonded across flow, dhw, gas, cold and return. A mate of mine was ranting the other week that all this bonding should be done by leccys. He still bonds the pipework as most lads seem to round here.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Very very true. I am not bothered about bonding at appliance as long as it is there elsewhere. But on all my installs I check they have it and if not I get them to get a sparky to do it for them. Ie at the meter or cold water pipework

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Very very true. I am not bothered about bonding at appliance as long as it is there elsewhere. But on all my installs I check they have it and if not I get them to get a sparky to do it for them. Ie at the meter or cold water pipework

and these days you have rcd which require them to be bonded if its an old 3036 its ncs anyway

 

[king of pipes]

All the guys have coverd everything but i must say it is a very poor install for the money you paid you should have got a better quality boiler and tidyer job than that hope it gets sorted regards kop

 

[cr0ft]

Just to clear up the bonding issue (as an electrician), if the power supply to the boiler is RCD protected then no cross bonding is required. All of the pipes coming into the boiler are attached to the boiler case which is earthed back through the earth busbar on the consumer unit. No point in adding work for the sake of it!

 

[Fiona]

Thanks so much for all your feedback!

We had him in this morning and everything that was raised has been seen to. But just to clarify for those wondering, yes the benchmark was completed in full in which it was stated the system had been flushed. We have also since received the GSR certificate for the job but I have also requested an inspection so hopefully we have someone in soonish to ok it all.

Strangely though I ended up contacting an expert via ciphe.org.uk and received the following -
"it is ok to discharge the condense into that rainwater guttering provided the owner of that guttering agrees". Obviously they weren't happy with it hence the looking into this in the first place but its interesting to see it being ok after all that has been said.

Anyway, hopefully its all resolved now and we have happy neighbours again.

Thanks for your help!
Fiona

 

[Scott_D]

It can only go to rain water if neutralised or it's a combined rain water and sewage drain.

Was the filling loop connected to the hot water?

 

[leesparkykent]

The only place boiler pipework needs bonding is if its installed in a bathroom that's been wired to pre 17th edition (so no RCD on bathroom circuits) as all extraneous conductive parts and exposed conductive parts in that location require cross bonding so in the event of a fault the extraneous and exposed conductive parts are at the same potential.

 

[magicno1]

Double check valve installed wrong! Should be on the cold inlet guys!
Sorry to say but Rouge Traders may like this one!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Double check valve installed wrong! Should be on the cold inlet guys!
Sorry to say but Rouge Traders may like this one!

Doesn't have to be on the cold side, some say cold some heating

I like cold myself as you can drain the heating down easily via the valve

 

[Darren Jackson]

The Mi's state the filling loop should from the cold with a check valve to the return pipe with a check valve. This one is connected to the hot pipe minus the check valve and to the flow pipe. The Mi's also stress the gas pipe should a minimum of 22mm from a governed meter to the appliance. It is 15mm on this installation. And yes you can run the condensate to a rain water gutter that was not really the problem. But at has to be to a combined rain/foul drain. And be at least 1/14" external piping and be insulated...And you have to have the permission of the people it belongs to...

 

[Boilers]

£2500 for a heatline...!! Wow fitter must be racking it in on that one

 

[Leezygeezer]

If a gas safe inspector goes to that, the installer will have to return and correct several installation defects just from what is evident on the photographs.
Condensate pipe is undersized, unsupported and not lagged, termination point is dubious, external flue not sealed, filling loop still connected and apparently to hot not cold, there's also a possibility of the gas supply pipe work being undersized

 

[Darren Jackson]

Hi Fiona, has the Gas safe inspector turned up yet & if so what was the outcome? I'm still a bit concerned for you on this one.

 

[magicno1]

Doesn't have to be on the cold side, some say cold some heating

I like cold myself as you can drain the heating down easily via the valve

Water regs!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Water regs!

Yes all you need is either a double check on the heating or the cold water side and complys with regs

It's just either the braided hose could contain mains water or heating water depending on how / where your check valves are

 

[cr0ft]

Eek, should have remembered about bathrooms. Completely forgot about them as I've never installed a boiler in one tbh. Also if I was, I'd be selling them a consumer unit upgrade anyway to avoid cross bonding as it looks ugly 🙂

Going off to flog myself for providing non-trusted advice there..