fully qualified plumber in two weeks.

[fuzzy]

i dont think the acs is a sham, centres may be a sham tamz, not the qual

i agree with fast track though, learning a trade takes at least 4 years and just to be a new plumber, not an experienced one. i come out of my time after 4 years and then started to learn wwhen i was out on my own. they used to say you do your most learning between 4-8 years and in my expereince thats right. fast track dont make sense, it would for a flag layer or concreter or soemthing, not gas or plumbing. absolute nonesence. prob is you and others seem to be blaming the authorities, alot of the time their hands are tied, they do their best and design quals with good intentions but people find a way round, loop holes, greedy people owning centres with no idea of plumbing at all just want money, they make promisises and move onto the next big thing after its all passed over, computers, IT, plumb what next?
as i said dont blame the car for people speeding, blame those at fault, not the qual
there are many excellent centres, when all this passes over do you think private centres will remain? colleges will

 

[Guest123]

Just a thought. If someone can potentially kill or maim someone by qualifying as a plumber, electrician or gas fitter in only one week, does this mean that I can become a surgeon in a week and carry out surgical procedures on the general public?

 

[dontknowitall]

I'm all too aware of the reputation of fast trackers (and I'm one too) especially on this forum. In fairness though, as long as you treat the course like a driving test (it's only when you pass that you really learn how to drive) you can only pick up proper experience and diagnostic skills when you're out trying to earn a living. It's not the job of fast track centres to give you all the knowledge you might require.

The role they do fill though is in teaching you some of the basics (e.g. cold water pipes below hot water, decent soldering skills, awareness of where to cut through joists, etc. Taking the last point it's potentially quite dangerous to cut and notch joists without real knowledge. So while fast track courses do not give you everything they do at least give the basics and make you aware of the pitfalls.

The best way of learning though is through an apprenticeship. But when you're 30+ no one is interested in taking you on as an apprentice and if you want a career change (because you've run out of work as your sewing machine repair workshop gets no more work) fast tracking is the only option to you.

 

[Gray0689]

I'm all too aware of the reputation of fast trackers (and I'm one too) especially on this forum. In fairness though, as long as you treat the course like a driving test (it's only when you pass that you really learn how to drive) you can only pick up proper experience and diagnostic skills when you're out trying to earn a living. It's not the job of fast track centres to give you all the knowledge you might require.

The role they do fill though is in teaching you some of the basics (e.g. cold water pipes below hot water, decent soldering skills, awareness of where to cut through joists, etc. Taking the last point it's potentially quite dangerous to cut and notch joists without real knowledge. So while fast track courses do not give you everything they do at least give the basics and make you aware of the pitfalls.

The best way of learning though is through an apprenticeship. But when you're 30+ no one is interested in taking you on as an apprentice and if you want a career change (because you've run out of work as your sewing machine repair workshop gets no more work) fast tracking is the only option to you.

Well said mate
I belive that most fast fast trackers may not be very good at the job but some are just as good and somtimes better than apprentice trained I think it's how good the firm that teaches you is and the men or woman (lol politiclly correct) you learn from

 

[tamz]

I'm not saying the centres are dishonest (but some are certainly bending the rules) or that we shouldn't have to do retraining but the ACS stuff is not set up to make sure you can actually do the job but to provide you with the knowledge of the regulations that have to be applied. There are many who come out ACS centres having passed, that you would as Eco said, not allow to fill a gas lighter. Now you are not going to tell me the trainers don't know this too but as they have passed the test, their hands are tied.
If they make it an annual thing then it will surely only cover any changes to the regs. Do you think it would be better to only learn what has changed or run through the lot again?
I think it is better the way it is where at least they may hopefully learn something but it is still not ideal.

 

[fuzzy]

I'm not saying the centres are dishonest (but some are certainly bending the rules) or that we shouldn't have to do retraining but the ACS stuff is not set up to make sure you can actually do the job but to provide you with the knowledge of the regulations that have to be applied. There are many who come out ACS centres having passed, that you would as Eco said, not allow to fill a gas lighter. Now you are not going to tell me the trainers don't know this too but as they have passed the test, their hands are tied.
If they make it an annual thing then it will surely only cover any changes to the regs. Do you think it would be better to only learn what has changed or run through the lot again?
I think it is better the way it is where at least they may hopefully learn something but it is still not ideal.

My point exactly though tamz, the ACS isnt designed to train you as a gas fitter, so dont blame it for not training people. It is there to ensure your work safe. Its not deemed safe to let somebody pass their gas C&G and then 50 years later still be working without ever having to prove their regulations/safety knowledge or update their knowledge. I pilot or similar would be expected to have safety checks/knowledge updates periodically.

People think that acs is a qual, its not much more than a safety license needed every 5 but maybe soon, year. Centres misuse it as a qual. the thing with the categories is top people doing it without relevant evperience or quals, not to stop people getting into the industry but because it isnt a qual for newbies. its like taking your advanced driving test without passing your test or driving in the first place. Stop using it for newbies, the qual is fine, leave it be, it is what it is, dont misuse it then blame the qual, blame the centres and people who abuse it

 

[fagsanbooz]

agree with lots of you, but fuzzy is right, acs is fine, but a minority of centres (just like everything else in life) are passing people who maybe they shouldn't! Lets not forget though, everyone registering on gs gets a personal visit/inspection from local inspector and is tested again.
One other point, most of you' like me are....plumbers, not 'gas engineers'. Gas engineers have done a 4 year apprenticeship with bg or similar and they are 'gas engineers', most on here are 'plumbers' with some knowledge of gas. Lets not forget, it's the gas engineers/companies/organisations that 'set-up' the acs, update the acs and set the criteria for us to pass.
Also, gs have been emailing all reg'd gas persons regarding 'input', feedback' and running workshops around the country for your views! Like the vote, if you don't use it don't winge later!!!!!!!

 

[tamz]

The gsr survey is a joke imo but i did fill it in.

 

[fuzzy]

another good point, gas engineer or plumber who does gas, alot differnt in my experience, horses for courses. if it wernt for boilers most plumbers wouldnt do acs

 

[Guest123]

I mainly do bathrooms and wetrooms and rarely do boilers, but I did my acs. Would think twice about doing it again if I had to do it every year.

 

[unguided1]

Yes

I do think they are damaging to the industry for the wrong people. If your a person who has very little practical experiance in anything, these courses are lethal.

If for example your in the building trade already and you want to add to your repetoir of skills for doing the odd bits and pieces then this can be of help.

I also believe that anyone who decides that they are going to train as an architect should have a couple of years experiance of being a plumber/heating engineer, my reason for saying for this is having spent many years doing installations is architects are great at giving the customer what they want but little practical experiance in how we have to implement the design

 

[fuzzy]

I mainly do bathrooms and wetrooms and rarely do boilers, but I did my acs. Would think twice about doing it again if I had to do it every year.

as i keep saying, if its every year it just ONE DAY NOT not the same as now

 

[fuzzy]

Yes

I do think they are damaging to the industry for the wrong people. If your a person who has very little practical experiance in anything, these courses are lethal.

If for example your in the building trade already and you want to add to your repetoir of skills for doing the odd bits and pieces then this can be of help.

I also believe that anyone who decides that they are going to train as an architect should have a couple of years experiance of being a plumber/heating engineer, my reason for saying for this is having spent many years doing installations is architects are great at giving the customer what they want but little practical experiance in how we have to implement the design

often not there problem though, do thye also need to be structural engineer, steel worker, glazer, brickie etc etc

 

[Dormouse]

do you mean that we are going to have to train for ACS every year now instead of 5 years ?

The government are doing that at the moment with truck drivers, they now have to sit a CPC (Certificate of Professional Competence) it's 35 hours of extra training every five years or you can do it at 1 day per year to total 35 hours, sounds like a similar thing with the ACS.

 

[fuzzy]

ACS isnt there to train you as a gas fitter, just a competence safetty check , not for newbies

 

[Guest123]

ACS isnt there to train you as a gas fitter, just a competence safetty check , not for newbies

That's so true, but I suspect that some centres take on newbies at face value of their "experience".

 

[fuzzy]

i agree system 3

 

[JohnDryer]

Yes - that is training providers fault.

 

[fuzzy]

and somebody else posts 3 weeks for gas safe! i rest my case

 

[quality]

times change the apprentice route has almost disappeared but a lot has to be said of the individual some folk will pay 5 - 8 grand and will be useless one will get a job at a young age and be very good, get paid very little, but be very good.
qualification numbers mean nothing if the person is even good.
You do not even need a qualification to fit a bathroom or a kitchen sink or an outside tap
What you do need is customers
Now where is the fast track or apprenticeship in that