We have a leak in a central heating pipe under the tiled floor in our downstairs bathroom. The water was seeping up through the floor. I called a plumber and he lifted the tiles and dug to reveal the pipe and find the leak. He has repaired the leak using compression joints (also repaired larger 28mm pipe which he punctured when digging), which he says are more reliable than soldering, but we have had constant leaks from each pipe every time the water is turned back on. Water is now off and boiler not working, so he is due back today. I have researched and found that compression joints should not be used under concrete and joints should be soldered. I also read pipes should be protected with Denso tape, but he says they need no protection. He is also going to fill the hole with rapid set tiling adhesive before refitting the tiles. Am I right to be worried?
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Have I hired a cowboy?
- Thread starter Sylvergrunge
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View the thread, titled "Have I hired a cowboy?" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
I am hoping the leak sealer will seal up any other issues (we think there may be more leaks in the pipes elsewhere). The issue with a tape is there is no room to go under the pipe as it dips down under the gas pipe and we are worried about piercing the dpm. Also, as it appears to be leaking along the connection as opposed to the pipe (right on the bend too) I am not sure we will get a good bond. I have ordered some ct1 as I have seen it recommended on here. Not sure it will work on this type of leak though, although may work in conjunction with a tape?
All pics are in the main bathroom. The last three are a close up of the 28mm pipe going down under the gas pipe.
The imperial pipe leads from the tank (in cupboard to the left about a meter away, that passes under my ensuite shower nextdoor) to the boiler, in the utility at the other side (right) of the bathroom. All pipes are under concrete flooring.
I will upload a pic showing distance (approx 60cm)
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Can you use a large format for posting pics please, my eyes/glasses are Rubbish.
Post pic of imperial pipe coming from and to and from boiler & tank.
Was the last plumber able to it shut off and wet vac the site or did he apply the putty/epoxy under water? How have you left it with him, is he done?
Post pic of imperial pipe coming from and to and from boiler & tank.
Was the last plumber able to it shut off and wet vac the site or did he apply the putty/epoxy under water? How have you left it with him, is he done?
You can use repair tapes on a faulty soldered joint, if that's what you have. The one I have in my toolbox (in case I mess up!) doesn't stick well at all, but if I get it on and pull it tight, it seals. Then I have to tie it in place with something else, but at least the water is contained. No use if you can't get it round the pipe however. Not sure there's much point using a proprietary leak tape with CT1.
28mm and inch copper are close enough where you can solder them using a 28mm coupling no problem
How do I post large format pics? Using my phone. These are pics of pipe in the tank and going down into the floor from the cupboard.
Plumber did shut off and drain the system but I think the area was wet. Epoxy is coming off 😔 Waiting on a call back from him regarding next move.
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Forget the amalgamated tape, terrible idea given the access and pipe condtion. If you can dig down beneath it for access and get that epoxy off too, clean up the pipe as best you can.
That leaking pass over section (or pass under in your case) really needs to be replaced, if the plumber wont do it find another and ideally a tradesman that has a press fit device.
That leaking pass over section (or pass under in your case) really needs to be replaced, if the plumber wont do it find another and ideally a tradesman that has a press fit device.
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Looks like that pass under is made up of a number of sections which would've been difficult to solder in situ as well as amateur.
I can't see it, is the leak on internal or external part of bend and is heating on and pipe full and leaking?
See if you can get a small wire brush, scouring pad or emery cloth and clean it up until it looks like copper.
I can't see it, is the leak on internal or external part of bend and is heating on and pipe full and leaking?
See if you can get a small wire brush, scouring pad or emery cloth and clean it up until it looks like copper.
Ok don't panick, no further damage is really being done 'cept you're a bit cold.
Ok you need to clean that pipe around the leak abit better than it is cos I'd like you to try a marine/weatherproof epoxy putty otherwise it won't adhere properly. What's your nearest retailer, any plumbers merchants, Screwfix, Halfords etc?
Ok you need to clean that pipe around the leak abit better than it is cos I'd like you to try a marine/weatherproof epoxy putty otherwise it won't adhere properly. What's your nearest retailer, any plumbers merchants, Screwfix, Halfords etc?
Halfords?
www.halfords.com
Never used it, pipe needs to be clean though otherwise it'll come off like the last lot.
Evo-stik Hard & Fast Metal Epoxy Putty | Halfords UK
Shop the latest Evo-stik Hard & Fast Metal Epoxy Putty easy to mix steel reinforced epoxy putty dries in 10 minutes at Halfords UK
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Never used it, pipe needs to be clean though otherwise it'll come off like the last lot.
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I am pretty sure this is what the last plumber used and it just came off
Not heard from plumber number 3 yet, so have ordered Jenolite. Thought I would try amalgamating tape as a short term til Jenolite gets here. It isn't pretty but it has certainly stalled the leak a bit, which is something. At least I might get a full (albeit cold) nights sleep tonight without having to wake up and hoover up water!
Piece of rubber and a jubilee clip ?
Looks like it is holding for a minute ( just a tiny puddle under in the past 2 hours, although the heating isn't on so not under pressure. The issue is where the leak is. Right on the internal bend so hard to clip, or do anything to!
I see. You can't solder because the pipe is in a dip and therefore full of water. You seem to have got it reasonably clean so adhesive now seems possible.
Surely a plumber could take up a further tile to the left of the gas pipe, run a new passover OVER the pipe and, while it will be messy, the urgency will be taken out of the situation. Or bypass the pipework somehow, clip a new section along the wall? Although I am aware the difficulty seems to be finding the plumber.
As for the rubber/jubilee clip idea, I think it might be a good one, but perhaps if you can get some twistable wire that won't snap as soon as you try to twist it, that might be easier than the Jubilee given the poor access. If you do try again with sealant, a clip or wire on top could be a good idea. But if tape is working...
Surely a plumber could take up a further tile to the left of the gas pipe, run a new passover OVER the pipe and, while it will be messy, the urgency will be taken out of the situation. Or bypass the pipework somehow, clip a new section along the wall? Although I am aware the difficulty seems to be finding the plumber.
As for the rubber/jubilee clip idea, I think it might be a good one, but perhaps if you can get some twistable wire that won't snap as soon as you try to twist it, that might be easier than the Jubilee given the poor access. If you do try again with sealant, a clip or wire on top could be a good idea. But if tape is working...
I have the Jenolite and am currently draining the system (typically the leak is at the very lowest point of the entire system so it is taking a while!
In the meantime I thought I would swap out an old valve on an old radiator for a thermostatic one, but it looks like I have ancient ones and they are way smaller than any I can find online. Any suggestions as to what I can do/where I can find small ones?
In the meantime I thought I would swap out an old valve on an old radiator for a thermostatic one, but it looks like I have ancient ones and they are way smaller than any I can find online. Any suggestions as to what I can do/where I can find small ones?
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If I knew you could drain the system and dry out the leaking joint somewhat I would've suggested you use some JB Weld epoxy. Make a small saturated fabric wrap with it and wrap the joint but ideally you have to leave it for 24hrs to cure and ideally has to be dry with no back pressure from any water.
I didn't know I could until today lol. Good old YouTube!
For a start that's the lockshield valve, so you should probably be looking at changing the other one (the wheelhead valve)*. Secondly, you're measuring it wrong. Inside that big nut will be a hexagonal recess for a kind of large Allen key designed for removing radiator valve tails. The type of connexion your radiator has is now less common, so you'll need to wind out the whole valve tail which will screw into the radiator. The radiator itself finishes flush. You probably won't see the joint, because the tail has been painted over heavily.
Concerned you may be slightly out of your depth, but I suppose if you want to learn, it's not a bad place to start. Worst case scenario is you have to blank off the radiator pipe for a while and remain one radiator down - so if you aren't competent with fitting a compression stopend correctly first, buy a number of copper olives and a couple of compression stopends in 15mm size (will also work on 1/2") then you can practice on a scrap bit of pipe connected to a hose.
*I say probably because most TRVs can be fitted to either the flow or return of the radiator - some are directional, so you need to check the arrow on the body and make sure you fit it so it points in the direction of water flow which might mean you HAVE to fit it where the current lockshield valve is. Usually the lockshield valve will be on the return - the cooler end of the radiator.
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