Help appreciated for back boiler ventilation problem

[RabbitTwo]

agree with

agree with author good!

 

[MAG]

Kirkgas, your rant was inspirational and had me hopeful but then Tamz you come along and it's all ruined! Lol.

The vent was only put in in September so can a plumber fit it without ducting knowing that there is likely to be communication with another property as it is a mid-terrace property? Really what I'm asking is whether a plumber can go ahead and carry out work when they know it is NCS? Only reason why I ask is because it looks like this floor vent was fitted by the plumbers at the same time as they performed the initial gas inspection before I moved in and who have now told the LL the boiler is safe. To me, based on two conflicting reports the LL should be paying for a 3rd opinion so that he meets his legal obligations to keep the property gas safe.

I've emailed the letting agents today highlighting that it is inexpensive to fit a core vent and this is all that is required to bring the ventilation to a safe standard thus ensuring our safety, the safety of the property and reduce the likelihood of us receiving anymore SG At Risk Notices. If they choose not to do this, I'll get a second opinion. If the 3rd opinions states AR then I'll be consulting my solicitor as, like you say Kirkgas, we've been unknowingly living in a property with an AR boiler for the last 5 months.

It's really annoying because it is so cheap to do but then again this is the same LL who is refusing to give us emergency heating knowing full well we have no hot water or heating. :rant:

 

[kirkgas]

Kirkgas, your rant was inspirational and had me hopeful but then Tamz you come along and it's all ruined! Lol.

The vent was only put in in September so can a plumber fit it without ducting knowing that there is likely to be communication with another property as it is a mid-terrace property? Really what I'm asking is whether a plumber can go ahead and carry out work when they know it is NCS? Only reason why I ask is because it looks like this floor vent was fitted by the plumbers at the same time as they performed the initial gas inspection before I moved in and who have now told the LL the boiler is safe. To me, based on two conflicting reports the LL should be paying for a 3rd opinion so that he meets his legal obligations to keep the property gas safe.

I've emailed the letting agents today highlighting that it is inexpensive to fit a core vent and this is all that is required to bring the ventilation to a safe standard thus ensuring our safety, the safety of the property and reduce the likelihood of us receiving anymore SG At Risk Notices. If they choose not to do this, I'll get a second opinion. If the 3rd opinions states AR then I'll be consulting my solicitor as, like you say Kirkgas, we've been unknowingly living in a property with an AR boiler for the last 5 months.

It's really annoying because it is so cheap to do but then again this is the same LL who is refusing to give us emergency heating knowing full well we have no hot water or heating. :rant:

you want to squeeze the contractor who said it was safe and put you at risk, thats who my rant was focused on, those 2 NCS make it AR get onto them,what area are you in?

 

[MAG]

I'm in Glasgow.

Gas Safe are of the same opinion that based on the doubtful nature of the area under the house and lack of ducting the ventilation is NCS & with the already NCS Flue elevates it to AR - purely because they expect their engineers to air on the side of caution as SG have. However, at the same time, they've said that it is up to the engineers discretion.

They are still refusing to give me a copy of the report completed by the contractors on Thursday.

Should they have given this to me to off-set the AR by SG? They've sent me a copy of the report done in September and said that the contractors are sticking by this even though they phoned Gas Safe in front of me to and confirmed that the ventilation is NCS. The September Report doesn't state this.

Still no heating as want to wait on a 3rd opinion and my CO alarm coming through the post and can't sleep a wink through stressing over all of this. Baby is in bed wearing layers of clothes and I'm stressing that he could be too hot/ too cold. :icon9:

I think it's just hit home that I should really look into buying my own house rather than renting!

 

[kirkgas]

I'm in Glasgow.

Gas Safe are of the same opinion that based on the doubtful nature of the area under the house and lack of ducting the ventilation is NCS & with the already NCS Flue elevates it to AR - purely because they expect their engineers to air on the side of caution as SG have. However, at the same time, they've said that it is up to the engineers discretion.

They are still refusing to give me a copy of the report completed by the contractors on Thursday.

Should they have given this to me to off-set the AR by SG? They've sent me a copy of the report done in September and said that the contractors are sticking by this even though they phoned Gas Safe in front of me to and confirmed that the ventilation is NCS. The September Report doesn't state this.

Still no heating as want to wait on a 3rd opinion and my CO alarm coming through the post and can't sleep a wink through stressing over all of this. Baby is in bed wearing layers of clothes and I'm stressing that he could be too hot/ too cold. :icon9:

I think it's just hit home that I should really look into buying my own house rather than renting!

it still falls to the landlord to fix your prob via the letting agent, although they never seem to care much, i still think there is some mileage in squeezing the contractor who said it was safe as they clearly dont know what they are doing, do me a favour PM me with the name of the contractor who said it was safe, dont post it on the forum, you could pick up a CO alarm from B&Q or any plumbing electrical contractors, the bottom line is until it is checked out then AR is where we are and it is your choice whether to use it or not, and most of us advice a customer never to ignore AR, but there are some NCS's that wont be dangerous when added together, BUT you aint gonna get that advice from anyone as we need to err on the side of caution

 

[MAG]

So until I have a report from the contractor saying "Safe" then it's still AR? Even if I've verbally been told it's safe to use?

 

[MAG]

Sorry, the only reason why I ask is because the LL is still refusing to give me any form of heating as he believes the verbal confirmation of the contractor means that there is no longer an AR by SG. I know legally we are entitled to heating from when the AR notice is received but his response is that he dealt with it quickly and the contractor has said its safe so we have no right to heating at all.

 

[REDSAW]

some of my earliest memories are when we lived in a mid-terrace.
3 of us in a bed, no heating, frost on the inside of the windows, cold ears etc.
one xmas my dad bought us an electric wall mounted element heater that we were allowed to turn on until we fell asleep. i think i was about 4, my sister 6 my brother 2 years old.

how times have changed now with the dependance of gas central heating but i still cant afford the gas to run it.lol.

sorry i said that out load didnt i,..?

 

[MAG]

I could afford gas until I moved into said house with a back boiler. I nearly had a fit when my first bill came through. The lovely SG engineer who turned off my heating explained how inefficient and expensive they are so maybe he thought he was doing me a favour. Lol.

 

[Mike Jackson]

As far as I'm concerned you need something in writing from the contractor to say that the AR problem has been rectified and the issue is now NCS. The fact that they seem unwilling to do so rings alarm bells for me. Every bit of gas work that I do is accompanied by a form stating what I have done. 2 weeks ago I turned a boiler off due to a flue problem, I issued a warning notice and labelled the boiler as AR. Last week I returned and ran a new flue for it, as well as turning it back on I issued a certificate stating what action I had taken to make it safe to use again.

It's all about covering your backside to me and if someone is not willing to put a statement in writing then there must be some doubt. If there is doubt the sensible thing is to err on the side of caution.

 

[MAG]

Agreed. I don't know if they are refusing to give a written report because they missed the NCS ventilation in September 2011 and in November 2011 and/or they've fitted the floor vent in September 2011 knowing it to be NCS.

In my mind, without this most recent report the situation is still AR regardless of the LL conveniently believing that their contractor is in the right.

Will need to phone Gas Safe tomorrow to check if the contractors are required under regulations to supply me with a report of their findings and if they can tell me categorically that without it we are still AR. Poor guys are going to be sick of me!

Also, a technical question here! When taking into account ventilation requirements is it only the floor vent and outdoor vents of the room concerned that is taken into consideration? Or can the engineer take every outdoor vent around the house into consideration.

 

[kirkgas]

Agreed. I don't know if they are refusing to give a written report because they missed the NCS ventilation in September 2011 and in November 2011 and/or they've fitted the floor vent in September 2011 knowing it to be NCS.

In my mind, without this most recent report the situation is still AR regardless of the LL conveniently believing that their contractor is in the right.

Will need to phone Gas Safe tomorrow to check if the contractors are required under regulations to supply me with a report of their findings and if they can tell me categorically that without it we are still AR. Poor guys are going to be sick of me!

Also, a technical question here! When taking into account ventilation requirements is it only the floor vent and outdoor vents of the room concerned that is taken into consideration? Or can the engineer take every outdoor vent around the house into consideration.

you can only use ventilation that has a path to the boiler, direct from the same room is best as its less likely to be compromised, however indirect ventilation through another room(s) can be used if properly fitted,
re the current situation, verbal advice means nothing, you r landlord is trying to be fly by using that as an excuse to save the money, you need to start playing hard ball and demand some immediate action, first with the letting agent then as i had said before pressure on the contractor who said it was safe, they will/should be jittery if they know you are going legal/GSR with it (but i can guarantee you the letting agent will drop the contractor who said it was safe right in the doo-doo with GSR by saying "oh sorry i didnt know it was AR cause my contractor told me it was safe") a point you shouldnt miss when you speak to the contractor, play them against each other, and if the contractor thinks he will take a hit from GSR for mis-classifying (and he will) then he might fix it for you
good luck

 

[missplumb]

another issue to take into consideration with the outside air bricks is that they are also there to ventilate the floor to prevent the timber joists from damp and rotting. If we started ducting the vents straight up to the floor vents then it could cause other problems. As has been said, the stadium vent is the quickest and easiest way to sort it. Hope you get something sorted out quickly.

 

[MAG]

Morning. Just to let you know I've spoken to Gas Safe this morning and they've confirmed the following.

Contractor should be giving me decision in writing to negate the AG by SG
Floor vent fitted in September 2011 should never have been fitted without ducting.
Contractor should have noted this to be NCS when doing their GSIR and in their November visit
Only 2 vents under the window can be relied upon as there is no proven direct pathway to the boiler from the other 3 vents.

He said I should put a complaint in and the local inspector will contact me. Think this is the only way forward as neither the letting agent or contractor are budging.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

good this is just what you need. hopefully things will start moving now and the contractors get a rocket up the you know what.

 

[MAG]

Hi. Just wanted to drop by and say thanks to everyone for their advice.

LL has finally agreed to a core vent through the wall so we had this fitted today. The plumber doing it was fantastic and whole heartedly agreed with SG and their "At Risk" notice. Said the work that had been carried out and subsequent inspections were a joke.

So all in all we're back to being happy living in a house with a sub-standard boiler and expensive gas bill 🙂

Thanks to everyone. You've made a stressed out and cold lady very happy.

Cheers.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

thanks for letting us know the outcome

 

[zzzjim]

I use somewhere with one of these "reliable antiques" , and treated my self to a battery Carbon Monoxide alarm .Now they are less than £20 .