Help needed with strange looking (to me) Bath drain connector

[gcgold]

I hope someone can shed some light. Boss Lady bought a bath that weighs 27 stones for our loft conversion and I have been lumbered with the job of fitting it. Mate who is a plumber has helped me get waste pipes etc installed but doesn't want to know the bath, and who can blame him.Now that the joists have been re-inforced and the 25mm WBP ply is down and we somehow managed to get the bath up into the room ( long story) I have decided to have a look at the bath. I always thought I would have to connect the drain from underneath (ie via the ceiling in the kitchen) so no probs with accessing the 40mm waste pipe.See the attached picture. The bath has a sort of void underneath about 45mm high. Connected to teh plug hole is a flexi connector which can be bent and extended to virtually any position. My problem is how to connect this to a bath trap. the end has an outside diameter of approx 32mm. There is a run of about 3 metres so I want to use 40mm Waste pipe.Any suggestions / help would be gratefully received :rolleyes2:

 

[JCplumb]

That looks like part of the overflow. I reckon you need to go and buy bath waste kit.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

hi welcome gcgold. i believe that you form a trap with the flexi part it should come with a sort of clip which is attached to the flexi to keep it in position. you then get an adaptor to go from 32mm to 40mm then away you go!

 

[PlumbBobBob]

That looks like part of the overflow. I reckon you need to go and buy bath waste kit.

looking again i think you're right lol

 

[TBServices]

That looks like part of the overflow. I reckon you need to go and buy bath waste kit.

Sounds right to me.


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[scotty plumber]

Throw it away and buy yourself a macalpine bath waste kit as previously mentioned

 

[gcgold]

Feel like throwing the bath away - except I cant lift it coz its so heavy. Will source a Macalpine bath waste kit now . Many thanks for your prompt responses.

 

[Paulus]

It is definitely the overflow pipe. I suggest you do as scotty says.

 

[jordand]

More trouble than its worth fitting. You will be back to fix a leaky bath waste if that gets fitted

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[gcgold]

OH DEAR............... Having read the prompt responses I went back and inspected the 'monster' I now have a further problem. There is no sign of an overflow in this very heavy very expensive bath :sick: The damned thing is that big I dont think the country has enough water to completely fill it but will the lack of an overlow mean that the Building Control geezer might have something negative to say ?

 

[Whn1]

From the pic that to me looks like a cheap overflow from a kitchen sink.

 

[gcgold]

From the pic that to me looks like a cheap overflow from a kitchen sink.

No it was attached to the click clack drain.

 

[Whn1]

Like the guys said but a mcalpine one and blank off the overflow connection, you may need to cut a hole in the floor to fit the trap and hope it doesn't land on a joist.

 

[JCplumb]

Never really come across a bath without an overflow except plastic ones where you have to drill a hole for it.
Not sure if it's building regs, but I would guess that it is. Regs aside, if that bath weighs a ton and someone leaves a tap open, the overflowing water may weaken the wooden floor underneath it.
I'd be worried if I was in a room below it.
What's it made of? Would it be possible to drill one?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

can you put some pics of the bath up?

 

[Whn1]

With you in it.

 

[dancinplumba]

With you in it.

His boss lady mite not like that, but heyho each to there own 🙂

 

[gcgold]

This is the label off the crate - sorry but my phone camera is kaput

 

[Whn1]

Do you have an elevator in your house!?

 

[tamz]

Just fit it and connect it to a hepvo.

 

[bennygas]

about this business of no overflow - i fitted an ideal standard bath and waste set up a couple of weeks ago which had a fandangled arrangement of pressure pipes connected to the waste outlet connection, turns out it all acts as a concealed overflow, no need for a separate one. that aint possibly what you're supposed to have on this monster is it? if so, was there something missing from the delivery?

 

[gcgold]

haha it was a bit of a job getting it up , considering the staircase has yet to be completed - but we managed. Now wondering whether to find some way of having a drain in the floor behind the bath (out of site) that tees into the bath waste pipe below the floor, will need to fit a trap on this though but shouldn't be an issue -- or have I missed something ? Anyone know where I can get a suitable small drain

 

[Hardy1]

buy a bath waste kit with overflow..instead of scratching your head and trying to figure it out(been there) lol. and mann does it do your head in!!

 

[gcgold]

Hi Hardy1 . Many thanks for the advice. Sorry for being a bit naive but how does the water get into the overflow ? Her ladyship has decreed that no holes will be drilled in her bath with the death penalty being re-introduced for any transgressions. Did you have a particular waste kit in mind ?

 

[gcgold]

Just fit it and connect it to a hepvo.

Hadnt heard of these but having done a bit of research think this is a good option - just need to sort out the overflow situation now . Do you know best (ie cheapest) place to get hepvo's - I have trade accounts with quite a few suppliers but often find t'interweb cheaper

 

[gcgold]

Hi Bennygas. Thanks for your reply. I now discover the monster is manufactured in China (even though the rep in shop told bosslady it woz coming in from Italy) so don't think it would have anything complicated. It just had that grotty looking plastic flexi pipe connected to the waste outlet. Why is it that jobs in your own house , which you dont get paid for, are always the worst and the 'customer' is never happy with the result

 

[ecowarm]

Something like this McAlpine un slotted bath waste 1.1/2 X 1.1/2"
With something like this Marley 40Mm Shallow Bath Trap Wsb4:W

 

[PlumbBobBob]

Why is it that jobs in your own house , which you dont get paid for, are always the worst and the 'customer' is never happy with the result

it's the way of the world

 

[ecowarm]

Hi Bennygas. Thanks for your reply. I now discover the monster is manufactured in China (even though the rep in shop told bosslady it woz coming in from Italy) so don't think it would have anything complicated. It just had that grotty looking plastic flexi pipe connected to the waste outlet. Why is it that jobs in your own house , which you dont get paid for, are always the worst and the 'customer' is never happy with the result

Yes the ship from china will have dropped off some carp in Italy too!

 

[gcgold]

Something like this McAlpine un slotted bath waste 1.1/2 X 1.1/2"
With something like this Marley 40Mm Shallow Bath Trap Wsb4:W

Thanks for the help. Think I have the waste side sorted with an hepvo which can connect to the click-clack waste OK ( I have tried it and its OK. Problem has now switched to the monster having no overflow. Perhaps I am being a bit dim here (something I am very good at :crazy🙂 . My fear is that her ladyship starts running the bath and then the phone rings, she is on for ages to her best friend and the bath simply overfills with catastrophic results and a massive water bill for me and probably a drought declared given the size of the bath.

 

[bennygas]

alright, just googled "bath with no overflow", found this as first result, dunno if you've seen this...Nova-Flo®: Stop overflowing baths automatically

 

[gcgold]

Looks great. Thanks a lot I really appreciate all your help. Happy Days:clap:

 

[Puddle]

alright, just googled "bath with no overflow", found this as first result, dunno if you've seen this...Nova-Flo®: Stop overflowing baths automatically

You do need an over flow with this unit,idea is water goes down over flow and cuts off water supply

 

[gcgold]

Aaaarrrrrrggggghhhhh Just looked at the installation instructions for teh Nova-Flo and it fits to the pipe coming from the Bath overflow and the monster doesnt have one. Anyone want to buy a house with a part complete loft conversion with a very heavy and nice looking bath thrown in :😵:

 

[gcgold]

Is there any reason why I cannot build a shower waste trap into the floor beside the bath in case it overflows ?

 

[bennygas]

aww that's a shame. sorry about that, get your hopes up etc, gotta be honest, I didn't read too much about the product, just saw it and thought, that sounds alright - well spotted puddle. like i said earlier though, ideal standard have a system whereby there is no overflow connection needed on some of their double ended baths - instead they have an arrangement whereby the plughole has an integrated overflow system (so if you have wall mounted taps, say, then all you see in the bath is the waste outlet, which has a posh cover over it etc). the thing that fits on the bottom of tha bath is a bit of a contraption but it seems to work quite well. I don't know whether you could get hold of one of these wastes as a separate kit, or perhaps if someone else make such a device.

 

[gcgold]

My current thinking is to fit one of these into the floor and connect into the waste pipe via a hepvo. site this adjacent to the Bath but will be out of sight . Maybe I am being a bit dim but cant see how this shouldnt work / get an adverse reaction from the BCO.

 

[JCplumb]

Any external drain would need a fair bit of seperate wastepipe before joining the waste from the bath to prevent your 8 gazillion gallons of bathwater coming up from it when emptying the bath/swimming pool 🙂

 

[JCplumb]

Thinking about it, whoever owns the house just needs telling that installing this bath without an overflow could potentially cost them many thousands to repair the property if it overflows. Also advise them that it is very doubtful that an insurance company would cover this due to the bath not having the basic safety feature of an overflow.
'Boss lady doesn't want a hole drilling' might not cut it with the insurers.
If the boss lady is also the house owner, just make it very clear to her, and get something in writing to cover your back.
You could try a shower waste but what's the guarantee that it would catch all the water?

 

[gcgold]

Any external drain would need a fair bit of seperate wastepipe before joining the waste from the bath to prevent your 8 gazillion gallons of bathwater coming up from it when emptying the bath/swimming pool 🙂

I see what you mean. Would a hepvo fitted on the external drain help in preventing the bathwater coming back up the external drain? Could probably get a metre of separate pipe before joining to the bath waste. At a push could run a separate pipe all the way to the main stack via a strap on-boss, but a bit of a job .

 

[Puddle]

If you have kids,you could get the gabby one and sit him in the bath while filling it with a few breeze blocks around there waist,when the screams stop or get gargley sounding you will know its time to turn off taps


This has the added advantge that if bath to full, once child removed water level will be reduced to correct leve

Failing that look at some small sensor that can be fitted to detect level of water and sound alarm or cut water off

I personally would drill overflow and plead ignorance,women only sulk a while before they find something else to cause problems over

IMHO


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[JCplumb]

HepVo's are good but I'm not sure I'd trust one to hold back the amount of water you will be dealing with here.
In normal circumstances it could be fine, but the bath waste could freeze or get blocked as it goes outside the house, the stack could get blocked etc. This will guarantee that your bath will empty out of the shower waste.
The only way to be safe really is to do a seperate waste from the shower.
With regards to the shower waste under the bath, to be sure of catching all spills and overflow you would need a wetroom floor type of drain and the floor would need to be waterproofed and uneven in that there would need to be a flow to this waste. The incline towards the waste would need to be enough to ensure that a running tap (x litres/min) would all be directed to the waste. Or maybe a 1 inch step all round the wet-floor area to prevent any overspill.
You really need to convince her to let you drill a hole imo.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i think boss lady is actually his wife. from the first line of his first post he says "our loft conversion".

 

[gcgold]

Thinking about it, whoever owns the house just needs telling that installing this bath without an overflow could potentially cost them many thousands to repair the property if it overflows. Also advise them that it is very doubtful that an insurance company would cover this due to the bath not having the basic safety feature of an overflow.
'Boss lady doesn't want a hole drilling' might not cut it with the insurers.
If the boss lady is also the house owner, just make it very clear to her, and get something in writing to cover your back.
You could try a shower waste but what's the guarantee that it would catch all the water?

Its my / our house so I cant tell the Boss Lady anything :crazy: Think you have a point regarding Insurance. It is a 'Wet Room' with waterproof backing boards and I will now be tanking the whole area rather than just around the shower area as originally planned. The shower waste will be installed lower than the floor tiles and I will be doing by damnedest to ensure there is a slight slope to the waste from all around the bath area. But even if the tiles were just level most of the the water will find its way to the drain, some could find its way to the shower area and no doubt there would be some areas with a bit of water sitting in puddles a few mm deep. Depending upon how long it is before anyone notices damage could be slight. We always turn off the water when going away for hols etc. I can isolate the water supply to this room very easily if we happen to go away in Winter and need to leave the water on for heating. Have a mate who works on Insurance Claims, he tells me it is fairly common for baths to overflow onto the floors of houses because the overflows didnt work correctly/ had been badly fitted or leaked. Problem I have is that the monster is up there (and what a job that was) and drilling a hole into the expensive monster is not an option. Even if attempted a claim against the supplier I dont know how I could get the bath back down. All in all I think I will just have to try the shower waste Incidentally the Boss Lady has now filled the bath in the original bathroom, the water level keeps rising even after it has reached the overflow ! Presumably the flow from the taps exceed the rate at which the water can exit via the overflow

 

[gcgold]

i think boss lady is actually his wife. from the first line of his first post he says "our loft conversion".

You got it Steve ! Also known as SWMBO (if you didnt watch Rumpole of the Bailey that's She Who Must Be Obeyed) :crazy:

 

[gcgold]

Failing that look at some small sensor that can be fitted to detect level of water and sound alarm or cut water off

I personally would drill overflow and plead ignorance,women only sulk a while before they find something else to cause problems over

IMHO


Sent from my iffy phone

Good idea about the sensor I will look into that - cheers

Not too sure about "I personally would drill overflow and plead ignorance,women only sulk a while before they find something else to cause problems over"

I often plead ignorance to her but it never works. She is an Interior Designer so spoiling the look of this bath would never be forgiven and I would die as a result (albeit a very slow, quiet and painful death) :coolgleamA:

Sensor and / or floor waste seems to be the only option

 

[JCplumb]

Well it sounds like a fair old project, good luck with it.
Keep us updated and post some pics if you can 🙂

 

[ecowarm]

Have a look here http://www.ideal-standard.hu/letoltheto_katalogus/first_bath_2008.pdf not sure Ideal sell separate from bath but would meet your needs page 5-6

 

[gcgold]

Have a look here http://www.ideal-standard.hu/letoltheto_katalogus/first_bath_2008.pdf not sure Ideal sell separate from bath but would meet your needs page 5-6

Many Thanks ecowarm - I cannot get over how many of you are prepared to help.

I had a look and thought how clever but fairly simple. However it relies on having somewhere (a broad rim) to have a control to open & close the waste and guess what ? the monster hasn't !.

Boss lady has googled "what do you do if bath does not have an overflow" the first result is a very interesting wikianswer .

whilst this has been written by an american and he refers to the US rules he basically is saying what I suspected - that an overflow is as much use as a chocolate fireguard if the bath taps are left running full blast.

So back to the waste drain in the floor and a search for a water sensor that will activate some powered valves that I found on t'interweb.

Hope the BCO is in a good mood when he does the final inspection :cool3:

 

[JCplumb]

Ooh that's clever, I like it a lot 🙂
(The ideal standard overflow that ecowarm linked to)

 

[ecowarm]

Good luck with the challenge gc

 

[GQuigley67]

easiest option would probably be leaving the wife !!

i wouldnt trust a bath without an overflow anyway, but then again if its a wet room with a gully on the floor with a run in the floor then it would be hunky dory i'd imagine

 

[gcgold]

easiest option would probably be leaving the wife !!

i wouldnt trust a bath without an overflow anyway, but then again if its a wet room with a gully on the floor with a run in the floor then it would be hunky dory i'd imagine

Leaving the wife would only solve some of the issues :😵:

having read the wikki answer I am now more comfortable that a gully / floor waste is probably going to be more efficient than an overflow - just hope the BCO will accept it.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I doubt building control will even notice the bath, let alone an overflow.

 

[bennygas]

that's the thing I was on about ecowarm - nice one for finding it, i had no joy at all.