Home serve etc etc

[hammers4spanner]

Got called out to a job today from a confused customer who just had her boiler serviced by home serve , her boiler was previously covered by BG. The previous engineer who left about 90 mins before i got there had supposed serviced her boiler under the cover she pays for.He informed her that her gas system had 3 mbar drop over test limit no smell gas and everything was fine then left .

Confused she called me i arrive confirm pressure drop on her boiler ( 1st engineer told her gas fire).I then suspect that no real service had occurred as notice pressure was low.Boiler was also full of air as air separator was closed then i asked how he checked flue? Cust says he said he couldn't inspect it as he never knew where it went . I found out flue has been boxed in a void since house was built ten year ago no hatches , so i end up removing a panel to nose at flue and see what i think is incorrect terminal on a condensing boiler .

However i can't get in far enough to fully inspect flue so have attached piccie , are my suspicions correct?
BTW previous engineer never even noted about a flue in void on paperwork either !!!!

Current situation boiler is capped .

 

[Nostrum]

What void, the one the camera is in?

Some flues had a none painted vertical terminal section as they were galvanised instead, although I don't recognise the clamp on flue, what boiler was it?

 

[solutions]

Got called out to a job today from a confused customer who just had her boiler serviced by home serve , her boiler was previously covered by BG. The previous engineer who left about 90 mins before i got there had supposed serviced her boiler under the cover she pays for.He informed her that her gas system had 3 mbar drop over test limit no smell gas and everything was fine then left .

Confused she called me i arrive confirm pressure drop on her boiler ( 1st engineer told her gas fire).I then suspect that no real service had occurred as notice pressure was low.Boiler was also full of air as air separator was closed then i asked how he checked flue? Cust says he said he couldn't inspect it as he never knew where it went . I found out flue has been boxed in a void since house was built ten year ago no hatches , so i end up removing a panel to nose at flue and see what i think is incorrect terminal on a condensing boiler .

However i can't get in far enough to fully inspect flue so have attached piccie , are my suspicions correct?
BTW previous engineer never even noted about a flue in void on paperwork either !!!!

Current situation boiler is capped .

Doesn't look quite right. What boiler is it? Some do transition to bare metal for very flies but can't recall which makes and models. I'm sure there was a post on the forum before where someone was concerned it wasn't the right flue before but can't recall the outcome.
So was there a gas leak then?

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

What make of boiler?

I'd say you were right too cap, how come you couldn't get closer?

Looks like the join is faulty but that could be the photo angle.

 

[hammers4spanner]

What void, the one the camera is in?

Some flues had a none painted vertical terminal section as they were galvanised instead, although I don't recognise the clamp on flue, what boiler was it?

The flue is behind a wall i cut a section of plaster out to make visual but its real cramped space and can't get in to fully inspect ,Was a worcester Zb 7-24

 

[hammers4spanner]

What make of boiler?

I'd say you were right too cap, how come you couldn't get closer?

Looks like the join is faulty but that could be the photo angle.

Would literally have to remove a whole wall and timber to get closer and yes its wonky on the join .

 

[Nostrum]

I know Worcesters definitely used none painted sections for vertical terminals but the join does look a bit odd. You could test air inlet for CO but it needs supporting properly anyway really.

 

[REDSAW]

thought you said a service?

 

[Nostrum]

thought you said a service?

Does that mean you can walk away from an A.R situation if it's just a service?

 

[hammers4spanner]

thought you said a service?

Yea homeserve engineer had been their hour or so before me left customer confused so she wanted second opinion.Ended up exposing this flue and where the gas leak was .

 

[REDSAW]

Does that mean you can walk away from an A.R situation if it's just a service?

her gas system had 3 mbar drop over test limit no smell gas and everything was fine then left

that A.R ?

 

[hammers4spanner]

AR flue as was in a void,

the gas leak he just guessed was on fire pap service

 

[Nostrum]

her gas system had 3 mbar drop over test limit no smell gas and everything was fine then left

that A.R ?

As hammers says, flue in void, no inspection hatches or CO alarm. That's A.R.

 

[REDSAW]

you and i and everyone else on here..would do same.
sorry been over multi tasking..lol

what i am saying is if home serve went in to do their 10 min service (poke the meter in) customers lucky they did a gas check too!. he spotted a 3mb drop, then as far as engineer concerned the jobs a good-un as its within limits.

he wouldnt have checked anything like we do (i spend min 1 hour on these jobs) same as cp12 plus internal examination and system function. also i am getting quite a few of these situations lately, customers always ask me after they have been for second opinions. they look gob-smacked when i tell them how long i spend 'servicing' the boiler.

if he did then it would have been A.R'd, but as he is concerned, its not what he came for, and thats what H-s & B-g call a 'service'.

what flue?

 

[solutions]

her gas system had 3 mbar drop over test limit no smell gas and everything was fine then left

that A.R ?

I wouldn't have left a 3 mb drop without investigation but that alone doesn't make it AR unless there is a smell of gas which there was not. He should have checked the flue though and highlighted the need for inspection hatches and then (with access)the need for flue supports.
Pretty loose.... But no one is surprised.

 

[AWheating]

Some of these engineers are between a rock and a hard place. Pressure to do alot of work in a day but companys official guidelines of not cutting any corners. Its not a excuse to miss fluing issues of course, just a bad place to be if your a decent engineer.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I did say that about the engineer probably under under pressure to get X amount of work done. However she did say he came across as couldn't be bothered and the more i looked into it i think he just took easy money.

 

[Millsy 82]

Some of these engineers are between a rock and a hard place. Pressure to do alot of work in a day but companys official guidelines of not cutting any corners. Its not a excuse to miss fluing issues of course, just a bad place to be if your a decent engineer.

For what companies like this class as a service it is easy to get through 10 a day and not cut corners.

It's all about getting into a routine.

Ok the bloke should of AR the boiler due to flue in void but I wouldn't of cut an inspection hatch in to look at the flue I would of carried out all the tests and if it was all ok AR the boiler and asked to turn it off advise them of what is wrong and what is required to put it right. If they don't want to go ahead with the work as long as they sign my warning notice saying that they don't want me to turn it off I walk away knowing I have done what is required of me.

Most boilers only take 20-30 minutes tops to service unless they have to have a full strip down.

If people are not checking things like fluing then they are either lazy or clueless or both.

 

[stevetheplumber]

one thing thats important on any service is the flue not noting a flue in void and the need for hatches is basic stuff when i was on HA servicing i would AR if i couldnt visually inspect the terminal

 

[REDSAW]

Most boilers only take 20-30 minutes tops to service

is that following the m.i's gas check, service cert, fga after 5-10 mins as stated in m.i's, filter clean etc ? i am asuming thats new combi's and not cast hex boilers!
or just an fga?

takes me 5 mins to get paid. lol

 

[Millsy 82]

is that following the m.i's gas check, service cert, fga after 5-10 mins as stated in m.i's, filter clean etc ? i am asuming thats new combi's and not cast hex boilers!
or just an fga?

takes me 5 mins to get paid. lol

I know it's technically not a service and more of a safety check but that is what most companies like bg, home serve etc want.

Front off boiler Hoover up inside case, if it's a condenser clean out trap and visual inspection inside boiler.

Fire it up and take working pressure and whilst it's heating up carry out visual inspection of flue, casing, prv, pipe work etc.

Test BP if required then fga, high and low , if their right do a gas rate then put case back on and fga again and air intake.

Turn gas off to boiler make sure it locks out.

Carry out tt and fill out paperwork, explain any problems etc to customer then done.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I know it's technically not a service and more of a safety check but that is what most companies like bg, home serve etc want.

Front off boiler Hoover up inside case, if it's a condenser clean out trap and visual inspection inside boiler.

Fire it up and take working pressure and whilst it's heating up carry out visual inspection of flue, casing, prv, pipe work etc.

Test BP if required then fga, high and low , if their right do a gas rate then put case back on and fga again and air intake.

Turn gas off to boiler make sure it locks out.

Carry out tt and fill out paperwork, explain any problems etc to customer then done.

The customers tho are paying for a service not a safety check which is mis selling or fraud .

 

[Atouchofgas]

Is it? If that's what is described as a service in the MI and you follow them, you have done a service as the Manu wanted

 

[REDSAW]

I know it's technically not a service and more of a safety check but that is what most companies like bg, home serve etc want.

Front off boiler Hoover up inside case, if it's a condenser clean out trap and visual inspection inside boiler.

Fire it up and take working pressure and whilst it's heating up carry out visual inspection of flue, casing, prv, pipe work etc.

Test BP if required then fga, high and low , if their right do a gas rate then put case back on and fga again and air intake.

Turn gas off to boiler make sure it locks out.

Carry out tt and fill out paperwork, explain any problems etc to customer then done.

that takes me an hour+
must be getting slower & older or just tootling about.lol

 

[hammers4spanner]

Is it? If that's what is described as a service in the MI and you follow them, you have done a service as the Manu wanted

Not all boilers are new or classed as modern , this one where the thread started an older worcester stated in MI's to clean hex yet the condense trap was not even cleaned out .

At best a TT was carried out and then the engineer probably looked to see if boiler was on wall, not acceptable and overall a very lazy attempt.

 

[REDSAW]

The customers tho are paying for a service not a safety check which is mis selling or fraud .

the two words used here are probably what the guy did when he was there...service or safety check!.
thats what i was on about before.

if it was made mandatory for all homeowners to have an anual gas safety check by law and insurance purposes, then the choice of a service is optional and make our lives easier as the faults would have already been adressed. this way you get what it says on the tin!.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Thats the problem tho if the customer is paying a monthly fee and her boiler is to be serviced yearly then thats what it should be imho.

 

[REDSAW]

special offer;
anual gas safety service/check from £35

 

[hammers4spanner]

Ohhh thats undercutting the outside tap offer

 

[Atouchofgas]

Sorry hammers only skimmed, yes guy didn't service it

 

[REDSAW]

3 per hour; fga in, fga out 10 mins, potential up sell for strip down service (if i feel it needs it 😉 ) another £60. then theres the flue in void work etc. lol

 

[Millsy 82]

The customers tho are paying for a service not a safety check which is mis selling or fraud .

A lot of modern boilers though are going down this route of if it passes it's checks it doesn't necessarily need a strip down service. I always recommend a full service now and if the customer is happy to pay for new gaskets etc then I will do it.

I do agree with you though.

 

[Millsy 82]

that takes me an hour+
must be getting slower & older or just tootling about.lol

I bet you can do installs quicker than me though.

I have done that many services and gas safety checks that I can do them in my sleep so to speak.