Is this Flue safe and legal

[gyro]

Hi
Im buying a new house where the boiler flue goes out the kitchen and into the conservatory, and then curves up and out the conservatory roof so it terminates outside. However, is it safe and legal to have the flue going into the conservatory like this? Is it still servicable?
Can it be made safer if the part which goes through the conservatory was boxed in, and if so, would special materials be needed for this?
Thanks in advance for your help

 

[lame plumber]

pictures then answers

 

[gyro]

unfortunately im not in the property yet so dont have pictures. I was hoping for some advice based on the description but i guess the key points i am after are:
- if the flue is a problem, can it be boxed around in the conservatory to make it safe from getting knocked
- What would be the conditions under which it would be deemed unsafe and unserviceable?

 

[lame plumber]

pictures pictures pictures!!

 

[gyro]

Im sorry, its not possible to get pictures in this instance. I really am just looking for help based on the info ive been able to give

 

[village idiot]

gyro, my gut feeling tells me that the legality of the flue outlet/route is not really your main problem. I suspect its the aesthetics that's causing you a headache.
If the flue route etc is really a problem, then post the pictures so these top girls and bouys can help you.

 

[Killy Bing]

What you're asking depends on a fair few things.

If it can have anything done it must be correctly installed to manufacturers instructions (the conservatory might have been installed afterwards so it very well might not)
if it does not then it would need to be altered before anything else.

What is the make or model of the boiler?
flueing differs between the brands.

As for boxing in again that might depend of the manufacturers instructions and what they allow.
also every joint must be readily accessible on the flue for inspection so the boxing needs to have access hatches.

your best bet is having one of us inspect it before you purchase the property.

 

[Dan Masey]

it can be boxed in, but all joints in the flue need to be visible through inspection holes, something like 300mm square. hardly worth boxing it in if there are bends ect as you'll end up having most of it cut away. just my opinion.

 

[gyro]

Ok... the property is based in wokingham. Completion is due to happen friday 22nd. How soon could this be done and how much would it cost?

 

[gyro]

If it was to be boxed in, would a special material need to be used?

 

[gyro]

The boiler is a potterton suprima, but dont know any additional model details

 

[village idiot]

Ok... the property is based in wokingham. Completion is due to happen friday 22nd. How soon could this be done and how much would it cost?

- How soon could this be done? It depends on the avialability of the various parts that will be needed. Parts for some old boilers may not be readily available, so there u go
- How much will it cost? Well, get THREE RGI's to attend and quote

 

[gyro]

I guess another question to ask are what are the options of extending the flue on a potterton suprima boiler?

 

[Dotty]

Pretty slim.

 

[village idiot]

if it is a Suprima, you may be looking at a new boiler.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Could be the HE version

 

[PlumbBobBob]

and if you need a new boiler you can have it moved somewhere else then the conservatory won't be an issue

 

[village idiot]

and if you need a new boiler you can have it moved somewhere else then the conservatory won't be an issue

couldn't put it better. Personally, even if it were the HE version, I'd rather walk away if the customer insisted on a new flue route. If we agree on a new boiler and a satisfactory location, then everyone is happy, including boiler manufacturer and supplier

 

[gyro]

So the issue we have is that we are buying a house which is pretty much issue free, although the homebuyer report said the boiler hadn't been serviced in the last few years and the sellers said they wouldn't get it serviced before they left. The plumber that went there said the boiler was perfect fine, but his one concern is that the 'flue and termination is not to current standards'. It does terminate outside the conservatory, but i dont know much more than that. The decision i have to make is whether i go ahead and purchase the house or whether this is a showstopper as it is likely to cost 2-3k to fix this in the next 5-10 years when the boiler gives in

 

[village idiot]

I'm afraid the decision is yours.
If your plumber says everything with the boiler is ok, 'cept for the flue. Have you tried finding out from him how much it will cost to rectify?

 

[Dotty]

So, to put it bluntly, you're prepared to spend roughly a couple of hundred grand on your dream home but not prepared to spend on the one appliance in the property that, if given half a chance, will kill you?

 

[AWheating]

put it to the seller that the boiler will need replacement soon and you will need a deduction to cover the cost.

its there fault if its a badly installed and maintained appliance afterall.

 

[lame plumber]

i so agree with AW

 

[gyro]

We have already tried the approach of asking for money off from the seller, but they arent willing to budge a penny.
croppie -Its not a case of willing to pay a lot for the house but not for the appliance. We have a mortgage to cover the cost of the house, but 2-3k is a lot to take out of pocket in one go. Thats 2-3k which after moving we wont have

The plumber has said it is safe and legal, but not up to current safety standards and based on that he wouldnt service it. He did say when it was put in however that it would have been within those safety standards before they changed.
He has estimated it would cost 2-3k to move the boiler elsewhere. Thats why i am asking whether the flue can just be extended and boxed in in the conservatory, as he cited these were the only issues stopping it being declared safe.

 

[Dotty]

He has estimated it would cost 2-3k to move the boiler elsewhere. Thats why i am asking whether the flue can just be extended and boxed in in the conservatory, as he cited these were the only issues stopping it being declared safe.

No. Frying pan. Fire.

 

[village idiot]

if it will cost £2-3K to move the same boiler, I;d suggest you just buy a new boiler.
Being you are not in a position to provide a picture, it is hard to give you a definate reply about the flue.
How about getting another plumber to visit, look at the boiler and then hear what he/she says? Bear in mind, he may visit and turn off the boiler saying it is ID as opposed to NCS. Beware

 

[gyro]

sorry, i should have been clearer, he said 2-3k in all for a new boiler and for it to be moved. He also said that getting it serviced isnt worth while as it doesnt really do much to the boiler in terms of extending its life. It just identifies if faults are imminent, so we would probably avoid getting it serviced in the near term (if we did purchase) to ensure it didnt get turned off

 

[lame plumber]

if it is really dangerous that isnt a sensible option, bit like leaving faulty brakes until the mot in 9 months time

 

[village idiot]

I really would get another plumber to look at it.
If something is ''ill'', you treat it. What I am trying to imply is that if the boiler is just manageable to the point where you will not service it or turn it off till it 'dies', then the best option open to your plumber is to give it a good service.
The fact he is refusing to get his name anywhere near the boiler is reason for you to worry.
As I said earlier, chances are if you get another plumber in, he may visit, take the view that the boiler is Immediately Dangerous (as opposed to Not to Current Standards) and isolate it. Then you really will have no choice but to get a new boiler.
If I were you, I'd start saving for a new boiler. Question is: Do you want a boiler now, or in the middle of Dec/Jan when it will be ice cold and most plumbers will be exceptionally busy, assuming the snow lets them out of their mansions?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

more likely is ILLEGAL and unsafe

 

[stevetheplumber]

personally i wouldnt worry about it if the boiler is classed as ncs it not vaugely dangerous as there are to classifications of risk above that classification probably half the boilers over 10 years old are ncs if its the house for you buy it and move the boiler in two years time when you have the cash
if your realy worried get a second opinion but chances are it will still only be ncs
by the way ncs is is not to current standards
if its the look your concerned about yes it can be boxed in subject to the regs being complied with

 

[tamz]

The fact he is refusing to get his name anywhere near the boiler is reason for you to worry.

Probably just installs and doesn't do service or repair as from this

he said 2-3k in all for a new boiler and for it to be moved. He also said that getting it serviced isnt worth while as it doesnt really do much to the boiler in terms of extending its life. It just identifies if faults are imminent,

It can't be that bad Stan if all he could pull it on is NCS. I'm sure if he wanted a sale he would have AR'd or ID'd it.

 

[village idiot]

i did tell him to start saving for a new boiler, just because the plumber says all is ok is not to say the boiler may not fail shortly after they move in. Sometimes, luck may not be on your side. If he only does installs, what reason did he have for being there

 

[Ermintrude]

Just negotiate a 3 k reduction. But fishy buyer won't get it serviced! I would budget on a new boiler if flue has been bodged in by conservatory lads or a plumber it's probably going to be a rongun!

Do u take ur car to get mot and then not get mot because bloke at garage said your brakes are shot. Engineer is a mug! It's his duty of care to highlight issues and ensure you are SAFE. He shouldn't turn away! Hope you don't have any kids, be a horrific find one day if when in your new house they didn't wake up because it was better not to service boiler.

 

[AWheating]

you wouldnt buy a car with a dodgy engine? why buy a house with a dodgy boiler? call the seller's bluff, if hes happy to neglect the gas appliances in his property then what else is in need of attention?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Just negotiate a 3 k reduction.

I think that has alreasdy been suggested, but it doesn't help because

a) the seller won't budge
b) negotiating a reduction in sale price doesn't put £3k in your pocket if you are buying on a mortgage

To be honest, the whole thread is pointless without pictures. Based on the description of someone who (no disrespect) doesn't have a clear grasp of the terminology, we are second guessing a qualified bloke who has actually seen it.

There are hundreds of thousands of NCS appliances banging away happily at this very minute.

 

[tamz]

Who said it was a dodgy or unsafe boiler?
As far as i can make out the flue runs through a conservatory which the new owner doesn't like.
Tough.
You don't like it buy another house or get it altered to suit you and your budget.

 

[Ray Stafford]

you wouldnt buy a car with a dodgy engine? why buy a house with a dodgy boiler? call the seller's bluff, if hes happy to neglect the gas appliances in his property then what else is in need of attention?

Not a fair analogy AW. The engine is the heart of the car, and the car is useless without it. A boiler is only a tiny part of a house.

All houses are imperfect, and all house sale negotiations reflect that fact.

 

[tamz]

If he only does installs, what reason did he have for being there

I don't think i need to explain that one.

 

[gyro]

Thanks everyone for all your input on this matter.It is all greatly appreciated. Tomorrow i will make the decision one way or another. The boiler is only ncs and not considered dangerous. I asked the plumber to go there to do a check before i moved in, thats why he didnt do anything else such as a service. If i do go forward with the purchase i think what i will do is budget in the cost of the boiler move and get the flue resealed where it leaves the conservatory
thanks

 

[AWheating]

Not a fair analogy AW. The engine is the heart of the car, and the car is useless without it. A boiler is only a tiny part of a house.

All houses are imperfect, and all house sale negotiations reflect that fact.

your right ray, but i couldnt think of a better one LMAO.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Probably just installs and doesn't do service or repair as from this



It can't be that bad Stan if all he could pull it on is NCS. I'm sure if he wanted a sale he would have AR'd or ID'd it.

Honestly Tom I visualise it as a bodged up horizontal flue converted to vertical when conservatory fitted ....... Like some of the post already covered this we need pictures to be able to give a final answer . Dont know the plumber who was there nor I know what he knows so can not take the NCS that is safe

 

[village idiot]

I am with SafeGasInstall on this one.
The OP seems to be contradicting himself.
- He says he doesn't need to explain why the plumber went there, then says he was sent there to inspect the boiler
- He says the plumber is not interested in 'servicing' the boiler, then says it will be sorted once he decides .....

I am convinced if the OP is willing to get a second opinion, the next RGI who attends will find more than NCS. All the same, I wish the OP all the best for the house purchase.
If you find that your 12 year old car is giving you problems, do you wait till you're on the M25 and it packs up b4 you get it serviced or replaced or do you make a decision to have the car replaced? I know what I will do. I will have it replaced.
Let us say for simplicity sake that you find someone who is happy to charge you £400 for labour & parts to resolve the flue issue. Two months later, the PCB needs replacing. Another two months & the pump or fan needs replacing. Before you know it, you have spent £600+ just within SIX months. Do you consider that VFM? I don't.

 

[basildog]

My old mate always said fix it once !
Then scrap it !
Mind the old git never serviced any of his his vans so out of 8 he was lucky if 4 ever started in the morning !
That is why I always bought new !

 

[basildog]

I also think we all really do forget half the population really is living day to day and an expense such as a boiler service is not on their list of day to day priorities ?

 

[tamz]

The OP, in the process of buying the house asked the plumber to go check out the plumbing and heating probably to see if they worked ok and probably if there was anything worthy of negotiating the price on that point. Commonly done.
The plumber went out and reported what he saw. He can't or won't overclassify as he knows full well the existing owner would have had it checked before putting it on the market and would get get it rechecked if necessary.
He/she then comes on with the is this safe :willy_nilly:stuff looking for another angle or am i being a bit cynical

However, is it safe and legal to have the flue going into the conservatory like this? Is it still servicable?

Of course it is safe and servicable. If it were in anyway unsafe the op's plumber would have shut it off.
There are many 100's 000 of 12 year old boilers working quite happily and safely and as far as we know the only issue is a visible flue in the conservatory. The NCS could be for a missing clip(as there would be nowhere to clip it to) but otherwise stable flue. Who knows. Only the OP the plumber and the seller. Certainly none of us do so it is pointless surmising.

 

[stevetheplumber]

I am with SafeGasInstall on this one.
The OP seems to be contradicting himself.
- He says he doesn't need to explain why the plumber went there, then says he was sent there to inspect the boiler
- He says the plumber is not interested in 'servicing' the boiler, then says it will be sorted once he decides .....

I am convinced if the OP is willing to get a second opinion, the next RGI who attends will find more than NCS. All the same, I wish the OP all the best for the house purchase.
If you find that your 12 year old car is giving you problems, do you wait till you're on the M25 and it packs up b4 you get it serviced or replaced or do you make a decision to have the car replaced? I know what I will do. I will have it replaced.
Let us say for simplicity sake that you find someone who is happy to charge you £400 for labour & parts to resolve the flue issue. Two months later, the PCB needs replacing. Another two months & the pump or fan needs replacing. Before you know it, you have spent £600+ just within SIX months. Do you consider that VFM? I don't.

how do you come to the conclusion the next rgi will find more ?seems to me your just making up scenarios that might never happen
why would you not buy a house with an ncs flue when it was right in every other way?

 

[lame plumber]

my current abode had an aga and mexica sharing the same flue, neither had been serviced for years, 3 phase supply (B&B) with one phase for showers, one for circuits and one for lighting, so 3 phase in every room inc bathrooms!!!!! leaky roof, etc etc. So discounted the price and moved in and ripped and repaired for 5 years, now the walls leak a bit but the rest is ok, you just have a look and either buy it or move on simples, me I'd knock 2k off the price on exchange day 🙂

 

[village idiot]

how do you come to the conclusion the next rgi will find more ?seems to me your just making up scenarios that might never happen
why would you not buy a house with an ncs flue when it was right in every other way?

Ofcouse I have to make it as I go along. Had the OP provided the photos requested, then a better analogy of the scenario would be possible. As far as I am concerned, I have to always opt for the safe option. My initial observation still stands. That the OP is more concerned about the looks of a flue visibly going through his (soon to be) conservatory as opposed to anything else.
As someone has already mentioned, he sent the plumber there to see what state the plumbing & heating was in so he can use the info gained to get a discount on the sale price, FACT.

If he chooses not to get the supposed discount, or is unable to get a reduced price, then tough.
If I were selling a car, boat, house, etc and am of the opinion that you could not get the same elsewhere for my asking price, then no matter how far up you jump, I'll simply tell you to take it or leave it.
I'm done. Enuff said

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I was trained when looking at any gas appliance for anything to fail it !!! Not looking to pass it ! And if it pass then Happy days and I know that I will sleep well