Mains Cold Water Supply - Think I had a cowboy plumber at my house !

[IATM]

Hi Guys,

I have had various plumbing issues in my house after having a few plumbers in and I cant seem to find one who knows what they are doing or how to fix issues so I have decided to investigate them one by one and fix them myself or tell the plumber what to do.

Roughly a year agoI had a leak in the mains cold water supply tap/stopcock under the kitchen sink - this got worse and worse and eventually we have a plumber in to "fix" this - he spent 2 hours apparently fixing it but said we could not open it full as that was not a good idea/good practice ....

This "not a good idea" he fobbed my parents off with I realize now was proboably because if you turn the stopcock more than half approx it starts to leak which leads me to think he diddnt fix it properly as he should have done and took 300 quid off me for the pleasure of doing.

Can you correct me if I am wrong but I should have the ability to turn it full to benefit from the full mains pressure ( I think this is having an affect in the upstairs gravity fed system I have in the two bathrooms)

any links to quality stopcocks etc I can use to tell the plumber to fix and any other notes when fixing this issue.

I would be really grateful for any help as I just can't seem to find anyone who can say yes thats the issue this is what it will be to fix it 🙁

happy to provide pics if need be

Thanks

 

[jase158]

Is the kitchen hot tap lower pressure then it was before the work was done?

 

[IATM]

In all honesty I couldnt honestly answer that as its been a while but what I will say is that the flow is very good - certainly not as good as the cold but I would expect this as the cold would be from the mains. if I could have the pressure I have downstairs upstairs it would be happy days as they say.

I have two sinks in the kitchen and hot water on both is very good as well as the small WC we have - the hot water in the basin in there is really good and the flush - its just upstairs everything seems to have gone pee tong

 

[jase158]

more then likely it is the taps,
1 easy thing to check is the tap spout head, there is usually a head on the spout of the tap, this can usually be removed with a tool. run the taps with the head removed and see if pressure is better or if you get a load of dirt out.

if it is dramatically increased and no dirt present then you can get replacement heads which allow more water through

if it is covered in dirt, try running system for a while with head off to try and remove a lot of dirt,

if taps dont have head, dont try and take apart (can be very tricky if you don't know what you are doing)

If there is no increase in pressure at all then most likely is a build up of dirt in pipes.

 

[jase158]

Whats That Filter Thingy In A Tap Spout - Another Informative Article From Grand Taps

here is a picture of the different filters available,

the one on the left restricts the water more then the one on the right.

In my opinion this is the only difference between high and low pressure taps, although i may be wrong

 

[IATM]

Whats That Filter Thingy In A Tap Spout - Another Informative Article From Grand Taps

here is a picture of the different filters available,

the one on the left restricts the water more then the one on the right.

In my opinion this is the only difference between high and low pressure taps, although i may be wrong

thats a great link - thanks for that it confirms my own thoughts - the taps in bandq that were specifically for low pressure systems too had ends with bigger holes so to speak and the high pressure taps only had the more mesh style opening....

wouldnt explain the poor flush in the toilets though - unless it was just crap my dad bought by accident off the internet - he purchased it thinking it was good stuff from the tinternet -

I am looking to get new stuff from victoria plumb it seems to get really good reviews from consumers and trade about the quality of their stuff - any thoughts anyone

 

[jase158]

thats a great link - thanks for that it confirms my own thoughts - the taps in bandq that were specifically for low pressure systems too had ends with bigger holes so to speak and the high pressure taps only had the more mesh style opening....

wouldnt explain the poor flush in the toilets though - unless it was just crap my dad bought by accident off the internet - he purchased it thinking it was good stuff from the tinternet -

I am looking to get new stuff from victoria plumb it seems to get really good reviews from consumers and trade about the quality of their stuff - any thoughts anyone

victoria plumb is a pain to fit, but cheap and looks good.

is it the flush that is poor or the filling up of the toilet that is poor? as these are seperate, if there is water in the system but not flushing well then it is the flush valve that is faulty not the water coming in.

if its not flushing because it has no water in it, then its the flow and like then definetly the pipes are clogged up or air locked, i.e.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

one thing no one has mentioned yet, are there any isolation valves on the pipework that are partly closed?
like this

 

[Best]

Low pressure taps tend to be physically larger & with more open flow - like you get with very old taps.
Check the valves from the cold tank are opening fully, as they have been turned off & on to do work - if they are gate valves (normally round red metal heads) then they can seem like they are opening but actually broken inside.

 

[Best]

one thing no one has mentioned yet, are there any isolation valves on the pipework that are partly

You just got in before me! :smile: Would be my first thought.

 

[jase158]

yeah good point and any valves in airing cupboard

 

[Mike Jackson]

It's entirely possible that the valve to the toilet has a flow restrictor fitted. If the "plumber" that fitted the taps didn't check they were suitable for low pressure it's unlikely he has removed the flow restrictor from the valve.

 

[glenno1]

Mebee a gate valve as said before or a stopcock that is not fully open on the line somewhere,or mebee a gate valve on the horizontal that has accumulated dirt

 

[Joncpi]

As the downstairs hot tap seems OK. Any gate valve on the tank is probably fully open. As said before check the diffusers on the taps. Often when you look closely at them you can see two small "flats" on either side. Carefully using an adjustable spanner you can remove them by turning them anticlockwise like a normal nut. That is anticlockwise when looking from underneath, not when looking down from the top. Dont use too much force if in any doubt ask a plumber. They can be cleaned by washing under the tap and then replaced. The toilet may still have a high pressure nozzle fitted and needs to be changed to a low pressure one. A high pressure nozzle can easily get partially blocked the hole is only about 2 or 3mm whereas the hole in a low pressure nozzle is much larger. The type of "ball valve" supplying water to your toilet does depend on the type of cistern you have. Lastly, if dirt has got into your low pressure system I have quite often found the "ball a fix" type valve shown above, if you have them, can also get dirt in it, as the hole in these, unless a full bore ball a fix, is quite small. Check the flexies you have as there may well be a ball a fix on one end of each of these. Is there a flexy with a ball a fix on the supply to the toilet? Check this. Sometimes it can be sufficient to simply close and open the valve a couple of times with a flat bladed screwdriver to clear any dirt, with the tap open. However doing this on the toilet can cause the dirt to move along the line to the "ball valve"

 

[WHPES]

A bit late now but the trouble is that less experienced so called plumbers (and the majority of DIY'ers) often don't realise that most modern taps and showers are not designed to work on old fashioned systems (i.e. gravity with header tanks). They may not have flow restrictors anyway.

TBH it is normal to pipe the last couple of metres to a shower with 15mm due to space constraints. The problem is more likely that the new shower is a modern type and not suitable for old fashioned low pressure gravity systems. A shower pump should fix the problem. Also the cold and hot feeds for the shower should come directly from the cistern and cylinder respectively and not be teed off some other supply.

 

[IATM]

A bit late now but the trouble is that less experienced so called plumbers (and the majority of DIY'ers) often don't realise that most modern taps and showers are not designed to work on old fashioned systems (i.e. gravity with header tanks). They may not have flow restrictors anyway.

TBH it is normal to pipe the last couple of metres to a shower with 15mm due to space constraints. The problem is more likely that the new shower is a modern type and not suitable for old fashioned low pressure gravity systems. A shower pump should fix the problem. Also the cold and hot feeds for the shower should come directly from the cistern and cylinder respectively and not be teed off some other supply.

I have to 100% agree with this - when I have asked many of them about how to tackle or look at taps that are better for low pressure they honestly look at me as if I am weird.

so just to give you guys an idea of what is going on in the house this is th set up I have in the airing cupboard



This is how the flexi connectors have been set up under the sink which I think is the major restrictor coupled with the fact that the mixer tap isnt probably catered for low pressure systems



this is the pipes running under the bath tub where he connected the smaller pipes in white) this runs under the tub but only i guess the cold pops out the wall for a shower fit - no idea where the other goes. the tub has two taps too -

I think the best thing for me to do is to have both the pipes (hot and cold) run up to the wall and have one of these fitted as it runs as a 3amp i believe, has an inbuilt pump to pump out 14 litres per minute even at a 0.1 bar water rate and seems like what i need even if it is a bit expensive. what you guys think.



Aspirante Thermostatic Power Shower - Chrome

 

[jtsplumbing]

Pic 1. Get rig of the gate valves & fit Full flow leaver valves
Pic 2. Change for full flow service valves
Pic 3. Flexi seams very long ?
Pic 4. Would think that both white pipes go to shower !

Why not if you have a new shower just fit a pump in cylinder cupboard ?

 

[acecharly]

What is the flow rate at your kitchen sink? is it much greater than the bathroom? the gland nut may not need replacing and simply need tightening its a little brass nut at the bottom of the handle if you look. In the bathroom you may find there are isolation valves on the pipes going up to your bath taps these are there to make it easy to change them or maintain them saving you turning the water of to the whole property take of the bath panel and have a look they may just be slightly cracked open if they are with the tap running adjust them with a flat headed screwdriver to the desired flow.

Hope this helps.

 

[acecharly]

never got to your pics before i posted just. That flexi under the sink looks kinked at the top its to long also you need to got to the end where the taps are on the bath and check for those isolation valves.

 

[IATM]

Pic 1. Get rig of the gate valves & fit Full flow leaver valves
Pic 2. Change for full flow service valves
Pic 3. Flexi seams very long ?
Pic 4. Would think that both white pipes go to shower !

Why not if you have a new shower just fit a pump in cylinder cupboard ?

pic 1: great advise - managed to find these and the second review shares your exact view (pasted below)
pic 2: sound advice again
Pic 3: 100% agree it is almost in like an S shape and it just cant help at all and I am sure these much be thinner inside that the outside let on
pic 4: no it doesnt - took off the bath cover last night and the cold has a joint which takes a pipe up into the wall, the hot water is just linked direct to the tape.

The pump idea is something I had first however every plumber I seem to ask to do it doesnt seem to want to do it and says they are not great but I hear otherwise online and from people on this forum. From my reading they are easy enough to fit and solves the problem they are designed to.
are they noisey? or can you can quiter ones? My plan was that if I did have one I would put some sound proofing in the airing cupboard and that would help enough to isolate the noise.

Any advise on what pump for the set up I have and would it be possible to run the new shower I will be fitting and also the electric shower in the en suite.

Last night I thought I need to find out if its the taps - decided to jab a screwdriver into the tap hole and try and tear off the mesh part at the end...

took off 1
2
3
4
layers of the mesh stuff!!!! - automatically the flow was much better - that got my thinking that the tap is designed to work under high pressure so is restricting it and also the poor connections below the sink are also not helping - all in all positive progress in resolving the issue. I have found a mixer that is designesd to specifically work on 0.1 bar pressure (wanted new taps anyway) so I will be buying that.


Full Bore Lever Ball Valve 22mm | NoLinkingToThis
Reliable and easy to fit27 Jul 2011
By [DLMURL="http://reviews.NoLinkingToThis/5873redes-en_gb/AdFB/profile.htm"]AdFB [/DLMURL]
, Glastonbury

"I have fitted many of these valves. They are 100% relaible and very easy to fit thanks to nice copper olives.
These are a far better bet than a gate valve as they don't sieze up and provide a complete air tight shut off.
I also use them instead of those screwdriver operated things which jam up restrict flow and leak

 

[IATM]

Hi aceharly - the flow to the kitchen sinks and WC is significantly better. I had the same thoughts as you - I was tempted to turn it up full and take a ahlf turn back and then tighten the gland nut that people have mentioned on this form - I will monitor if it leaks or not - if it does - it will be a simple change of the stopcock. 🙂


I will get a picture of under the tub later on tonight - I have a feeling it might not be the best way to have the piping set up in terms of having the best flow.....