New DIY "Plumber" needs advise for loft water tank supply nut and olive?!?

[Ghostrider17]

Hey guys

I've "repaired" my mums loft water tank from leaking but I'm unsure if I've done it correctly so thought I'd join this great forum and ask some advice from some people much smarter than me.

Basically my Mum was worried that her overflow from the loft kept running water so I went round and had a look thinking it was the Float Valve,turns out I was right as it was trickling and overflowing,it was also the old part 1 type from what I understand. I fitted a new one in my own tank a few months ago so knew what to do.

The tank was filthy inside and also full of rotten wood which was odd. After checking all the nuts I told my mum that it would be fine until the next day when I could pop and get her a new one. When I got back home she phoned me in tears saying the roof was leaking,so I went round and turned her water supply off and drained the tank as I couldn't find the isolation valve.

I then noticed there was a leak in the supply nut on the outside of the tank (on the right of the photo) going into the float valve. I can only guess I loosened it my mistake when I was checking things by hand.

The next day I got the new valve,float and a washer kit just in case. Gave the water tank a good clean,removed all the limescale and fitted the new float valve. Tightened everything up and turned the supply back on. There was still a major leak coming from the supply nut where the pipe goes into it,so the water was turned off again quickly.

I completely removed the back nut to look inside and I couldn't see any kind of washer or olive? I found this odd as I always thought a nut connection needed one? Also my parents have lived there for nearly 40 years and they've never had a tank leak before.

I'm really not sure if I did the right thing here but I found a right sized olive in the washer set and placed it over the pipe under the bolt and reconnected and tightened everything up. Water came back on and everything looked ok. I had a coffee and then went back up to check 20 mins later. There was a slight bit of moisture around the nut where the pipe was connected,probably about a quarter of a drip so I tightened it up more and everything's seemed to be ok since.

I'm going to pop by tomorrow and check things over. I'm just worried I did the wrong thing and things will start leaking again. Obviously being in the loft its hidden from view unless you go up and folks are getting on a bit now.

Could anyone give some advise and tell me if I've done anything wrong so I can put things right?

Thanks loads in advance and sorry for the long winded post,I just wanted to give as much detail as possible.

Just so you guys can see here's a pic of the water tank before I butchered it.

 

[Best]

You would be surprised a fibre washer joint can take more of a shock load than a compression joint (both done correctly)

I will take your word for it, but won't test that out. 🙂
Twisting a ball valve tail when tightening a new valve onto it is always my fear

 

[oz-plumber]

I just wanted to know if I did the right thing or something seriously wrong with putting an olive on when I couldnt see any kind of washer or olive on it already? Didn't expect a "*****" to come and have a go at me.

Obviously I havent got insurance,I just wanted some advise.

Well - there's always one ( ***** - that is )

I suppose you have kept the forum entertained.
But your still in the same predicament you were when you first posted.
Probably even worse due to some of the information you have acquired.
Fiber washer or olive, fittings required.

FYI- with the fitting you have been supplied I would use and olive.
The internal bore has been tapered to suit an olive.
I wouldn't trust a fiber washer on the flat surface that is remaining on the fitting.

Good luck with amount of pipe available - there's very little room for adjustments.

 

[Ghostrider17]

yep just looks mega big in your pic 😀

Ok,so just got back from my parents house and fitted the new whole tail end of the valve. Luckily the supply pipe wasn't damaged at all from the olive so I decided not to fit the service valve,there seemed just enough pipe to work with but as I'm totally new to this I didn't want to chance it unless I needed to.

I gave the supply pipe a good clean and found and removed the old washer which had nearly wasted away to nothing,which I assume is why it was leaking before. I think the house was built in the 1970's and I don't think my folks haven't had any work done at all to the float valve since so I'm assuming it lasted well?

I compared the old tail thread to the new one and they both have the same semi sharp end which you guys said you can use either fibre washer or olive. So it seems I wasn't wrong to use an olive in the first place? It's hard to see in the picture as the camera flash makes the new one all shiny and the old ones filthy. I decided to go with fibre washer as olive seemed a little too risky for me with having no experience and really didn't want to damage the pipe. Even though that's what I nearly did in the first place.

Fitted the new washer and tightened up and after waiting for two hours with water back on there was no leaks! Not even a tiny bit of moisture. I'll go back in a couple of days to re check and place the insulation and lid back on the tank.

Thanks so much for all your advise Shaun and to everyone else who positively contributed,I really,really appreciate it and at least you live and learn. If there's anything obvious that's wrong in the photo with the fitting I'd be grateful if someone could let me know.

Massive thanks again!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Looks fine to me and well done

 

[Ghostrider17]

Looks fine to me and well done

Perfect,thanks again Shaun. I'll double check in a couple of days then sort the insulation.

All the best.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And if you went with the olive method you would need to do away with the tap connector (loose nut) and just use stnd 15mm pipe

 

[Ghostrider17]

And if you went with the olive method you would need to do away with the tap connector (loose nut) and just use stnd 15mm pipe

Ah right,I understand now. So I was still wrong to try and fit it,haha. Least I know and now I've learnt something from the pros. Thanks again for advising me and explaining,really appreciate it.

 

[deg]

🙂 I love a happy ending.

 

[JCplumb]

So it seems I wasn't wrong to use an olive in the first place?

Well done, looks a good job 🙂
Yes, you were completely wrong to use an olive in a tap connector, olives go round 15mm pipe and definitely don't bridge the gap you'd have between the shank and tap connector. There's only a few mm of copper past the shoulder in a tap connector and I have no idea if it's 15mm, you did fantastically to get any kind of seal using an olive there. I tip my hat in your general direction 😀

 

[Ghostrider17]

Well done, looks a good job 🙂
Yes, you were completely wrong to use an olive in a tap connector, olives go round 15mm pipe and definitely don't bridge the gap you'd have between the shank and tap connector. There's only a few mm of copper past the shoulder in a tap connector and I have no idea if it's 15mm, you did fantastically to get any kind of seal using an olive there. I tip my hat in your general direction 😀

Thanks for explaining that for me. Think all the talk about olive and washers both being ok on the tail end of the valve confused the s*** out of me lol. I understand now that olives only work with the compression type nut thingys. The olive was just resting on the pipe like a loose wedding ring when I took the bolt off,least it didn't damage it. It must have been what was left of the old fibre washer giving a seal but not a very good one as it had dripped a fair bit since I last went.

It's all experience at least. Thinking about it I'm an HGV driver and I didn't know sod all about that until I did the courses and tests 2 years ago,so I don't feel too much of a tit making a massive stupid mistake like that on my first go.

Anyway its all done now and I'll sleep soundly tonight. Cheers guys,what a great forum.

 

[Ric2013]

olives only work with the compression type nut thingys

Exactly, just as tap connector washers only work with tap type connector thingies.

 

[Chuck]

Anyway its all done now and I'll sleep soundly tonight. Cheers guys,what a great forum.

One last thing...

I haven't read all 50 posts so this may have been dealt with already but you mentioned rotten wood in the tank. That was probably the remains of a lid that went on the tank. The tank needs to have a proper lid on it and to be insulated before the job is finished.

You can buy tank lids in standard sizes from plumbers merchants. There are places that will make custom sizes.

 

[Ghostrider17]

One last thing...

I haven't read all 50 posts so this may have been dealt with already but you mentioned rotten wood in the tank. That was probably the remains of a lid that went on the tank. The tank needs to have a proper lid on it and to be insulated before the job is finished.

You can buy tank lids in standard sizes from plumbers merchants. There are places that will make custom sizes.

Cheers for that. I've cleaned the tank out and Ill get my folks to buy a proper lid from wickes or another supplier. Thanks for that!

 

[JayThePipe]

You either need to remove the "Tap Connector completely and extend the 15mm pipe up an connect with a simple 15mm nut and olive - or get a 1/2" fibre washer to put on the "tap connector"