New to the forum and boiler question

[Harvest Fields]

Ask them to put it into writting. I bet they do not. Also the clue is in the wording (likely interference with the SAFETY of the gas installation) (limit stat/overheat stat is part of the safety of the boiler) anything that is to do with safety you cannot touch no matter how many years you have been a Sparks. I’m done.

 

[Howard Freeborn]

Hi
You obviously know more than us lot on the matter. So don’t understand why your after advice.
Top and bottom of it is, your very unlikely to get caught, even if you do tamper with the combustion seal or anything to do with the gas side.
But. we are trying to be responsible and just because you say you what you are doing, is no proof of correct knowledge.
So, keep your family safe and employ a Local gsr to fix it.

I'm asking, as I have on other forums, if it is via my knowledge base a simple electrical base (thermostat etc) issue I would rather not pay a large call out fee for a £4 thermister or Thermostat... I'm a single dad struggling to make ends meet as I have 3 kids and have to do less day time work... I am having a full service in a month, as I have done every year, by a Gas Safe plumber, and a full system pressurised flush (I have that done every 5 years) plus a boiler Magnetic Heating Filter fitted. So I am simply trying to get a small problem sorted now. 40 years a qualified electrical contract engineer and I know electronics and the difference within a pressurised system.

 

[Howard Freeborn]

Ask them to put it into writting. I bet they do not. Also the clue is in the wording (likely interference with the SAFETY of the gas installation) (limit stat/overheat stat is part of the safety of the boiler) anything that is to do with safety you cannot touch no matter how many years you have been a Sparks. I’m done.

I will ask them again tomorrow and for it in writing, as I have done in the past when Corgi and now Gas Safe. I have in the past been asked by Corgi and Gas Safe plumbers to test board components (I have an AP tester) and done with approval.
I am surprised you even reply in a negative if no wish to help. You made your point in the first reply. I have posted the guide lines and the exclusions.
Caps do not make the point anymore valid. Rather the opposite.

 

[rpm]

This is becoming boring now.

 

[Chalked]

Just read the initial post again.
The power flush should sort your problem. It sounds like a poor boiler circulation issue.

 

[Ric2013]

I have checked this before when replacing a thermostat on my boiler with Corgi and then Gas Safe and HSE . 'Regulation 2(6)(c) - exception for certain control devices 26 Work on any gas appliance control device which is primarily intended for use by the consumer (eg removal or replacement of an electric thermostat or an on/off timer switch) has been expressly excluded from the regulations, where this work does not involve breaking into a gasway, ie where there is no risk of gas escape, or likely interference with the safety of the gas installation.'

'expressley excluded' plus I have called Gas Safe in the past and queried this... 40 years a qualified contract electrical engineer...
I have never done work where I have touched a seal or pressurised section.

I'm not going to start making this a moral issue, but on a technical note, my understanding is that since modern boilers are effectively computer controlled, a simple thermostat is probably not that simple unless it's a [*** xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx - if you know what I mean: good; if not: never mind] in which case, it actually is that simple. If you look at the examples you have given they are about the user interface, not about sensors that may well allow the PCB to interpret how best to regulate the boiler operation, so I'm not convinced you would be on the right side of the law.

Point is, people who are trained in safety issues tend to be serious about it, and, this being a public forum, ANYONE could read this. So regardless of how many years' experience you have as an electrical engineer, you are unlikely to get much help on this forum for the reason that your neighbour, who is not, might well read this forum and also have a go.

 

[Scott_D]

Can I assume you have tried testing for the duff component with your multimeter?

 

[Ric2013]

I will ask them again tomorrow and for it in writing, as I have done in the past when Corgi and now Gas Safe. I have in the past been asked by Corgi and Gas Safe plumbers to test board components (I have an AP tester) and done with approval.
I am surprised you even reply in a negative if no wish to help. You made your point in the first reply. I have posted the guide lines and the exclusions.
Caps do not make the point anymore valid. Rather the opposite.

As someone who sees your point, even though I disagree with you, I hope you will put this letter up for us to see?

 

[Howard Freeborn]

As someone who sees your point, even though I disagree with you, I hope you will put this letter up for us to see?

I will if they do so rather than just a phone confirmation, I would hope for at the least an email with a named person confirming the allowances.
To be honest I want to know if the exclusions they have sent links to me in the past showing the exclusions and the fact I have worked on boiler pcbs in the past at the request of gas safe and further back corgi engineers would effectively flag an issue that there are conflicts within the organisation on the wording as those exclusions are still oin the sites.

 

[Ric2013]

To be honest I want to know if the exclusions they have sent links to me in the past showing the exclusions and the fact I have worked on boiler pcbs in the past at the request of gas safe and further back corgi engineers would effectively flag an issue that there are conflicts within the organisation on the wording as those exclusions are still oin the sites.

That wouldn't surprise me, and it would be good to highlight.

 

[Howard Freeborn]

Can I assume you have tried testing for the duff component with your multimeter?

I did check the whole board on the AP and my Fluke... all fine... there were issues on some of the Performa boards in the past and I seem to recqall that my problem was on a part... but that's okay. I haven't tested the Gas Sensor Thermister or the over heat thermostat as I was into the kids dinner and bedtime routine... I'm knackered now (I have Trivial emphysema and have never smoked) ... I was hoping someone would say... 'ah yes, that sounds like the...'
After school run tomorrow I will check those... just heard my plumber friend is back home on Friday so with the temperature set to very minimal the water is not scalding, still hot and not right...

 

[Howard Freeborn]

I'm not going to start making this a moral issue, but on a technical note, my understanding is that since modern boilers are effectively computer controlled, a simple thermostat is probably not that simple unless it's a [*** xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx - if you know what I mean: good; if not: never mind] in which case, it actually is that simple. If you look at the examples you have given they are about the user interface, not about sensors that may well allow the PCB to interpret how best to regulate the boiler operation, so I'm not convinced you would be on the right side of the law.

Point is, people who are trained in safety issues tend to be serious about it, and, this being a public forum, ANYONE could read this. So regardless of how many years' experience you have as an electrical engineer, you are unlikely to get much help on this forum for the reason that your neighbour, who is not, might well read this forum and also have a go.

This a Potterton Performa 28... not modern and not a condensing boiler, there is no CPU... it is old but serviced every year (by qualified and registered Gas Safe plumber) and all parts needed to be replaced as per the guide lines in the service of the unit have been. It works well. I am fully aware of the regs as mention and the exceptions (which i am getting clarified) especially as I have worked on boiler boards at the request of Corgi and Gas safe plumbers.

 

[Ric2013]

This a Potterton Performa 28... not modern and not a condensing boiler, there is no CPU...

Garr. Why do manufacturers give very different boilers almost identical names? Next thing we know, the Fiat Cinquecento will have a 1400cc engine 😉

 

[Martyn2]

That wouldn't surprise me, and it would be good to highlight.

I'm not going to start making this a moral issue, but on a technical note, my understanding is that since modern boilers are effectively computer controlled, a simple thermostat is probably not that simple unless it's a [*** xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx - if you know what I mean: good; if not: never mind] in which case, it actually is that simple. If you look at the examples you have given they are about the user interface, not about sensors that may well allow the PCB to interpret how best to regulate the boiler operation, so I'm not convinced you would be on the right side of the law.

Point is, people who are trained in safety issues tend to be serious about it, and, this being a public forum, ANYONE could read this. So regardless of how many years' experience you have as an electrical engineer, you are unlikely to get much help on this forum for the reason that your neighbour, who is not, might well read this forum and also have a go.

I am a little confused here. Is it the case that you can be gas safe but know little or nothing about electronics?

 

[Ric2013]

Martyn, not sure what you are getting at.

FWIW, most gas engineers I have met do not seem to know an awful lot about electronics. The average RGI seems to be more a technician that can probably test against manufacturer's specification and replace assemblies than a designer.

 

[Martyn2]

Martyn, not sure what you are getting at.

FWIW, most gas engineers I have met do not seem to know an awful lot about electronics. The average RGI seems to be more a technician that can probably test against manufacturer's specification and replace assemblies than a designer.

There seems to be an objection to a qualified electrical engineer sorting out a possible electrical problem because of safety issues and yet no problem with the same issue being dealt with by someone not qualified in electrics. That is the point I am making.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Martyn, not sure what you are getting at.

FWIW, most gas engineers I have met do not seem to know an awful lot about electronics. The average RGI seems to be more a technician that can probably test against manufacturer's specification and replace assemblies than a designer.

Still plenty of us out here that understand electrics matey.

 

[Martyn2]

Still plenty of us out here that understand electrics matey.

Doesn't really address my point does it?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Doesn't really address my point does it?

Wasn’t replying to your point mate.

 

[Ric2013]

Electrics and electronics are not the same thing. I was addressing Martyn and his specific question. No offence intended, but I doubt many RGIs can look at a circuit board and work out the purpose of each semiconductor and diode and perhaps build a new circuit board that works without using manufacturer's parts (would be illegal to install, but that's not my point here). Perhaps you can, Harvest, but no one I have met in the flesh.
I'm now confused though, because Martyn himself was talking about electronics and now he says he is an electrical engineer, which could just mean he's a sparky.