Oil and Multi fuel Stove Linkup - Part 1

[dlm4473]

View attachment Heating 01.pdf

Hello all,

I am looking for advice, insparation or just constructive critisim !

Currently renovating a house and will be installing a multi fuel boiler stove (Charnwood LA45iB - 10KW to heating, 2.5 to room).

Current heating is Danesmoor 15/19 oil boiler pumped to vented tank (on ground floor - hot flow rate is very poor). I have an ACV 160l unvented cylinder to solve this problem which I need to install asap (to get on with other tasks). My intention is to convert boiler to sealed system and install the tank BUT have pipework ready to go for installation of stove and buffer. This to avoid re pipping in a cramped cupboard space.

I have not yet designed pipework for Stove/Buffer (that will be part 2!) - but intend to extract heat from buffer with a Heat exchanger (thus keeping sealed system for rads and boiler).

Ideally the system will be as flexible and economic to run as possible so i do not want to prioritise boiler over stove or vice versa.

House is bungalow, approx 150msq with little room in loft. Insulation will be 90mm kingspan wall, 70mm kingspan floors and 400mm fibre in loft.

Attached at top is my current plan for installing the Water cylinder, - I would appreciate all and any views on the subject.

Thanks

 

[snowhead]

G3 qualified?

 

[dlm4473]

G3 only required in England and Wales snowhead

 

[Gray0689]

View attachment 17334

Hello all,

I am looking for advice, insparation or just constructive critisim !

Currently renovating a house and will be installing a multi fuel boiler stove (Charnwood LA45iB - 10KW to heating, 2.5 to room).

Current heating is Danesmoor 15/19 oil boiler pumped to vented tank (on ground floor - hot flow rate is very poor). I have an ACV 160l unvented cylinder to solve this problem which I need to install asap (to get on with other tasks). My intention is to convert boiler to sealed system and install the tank BUT have pipework ready to go for installation of stove and buffer. This to avoid re pipping in a cramped cupboard space.

I have not yet designed pipework for Stove/Buffer (that will be part 2!) - but intend to extract heat from buffer with a Heat exchanger (thus keeping sealed system for rads and boiler).

Ideally the system will be as flexible and economic to run as possible so i do not want to prioritise boiler over stove or vice versa.

House is bungalow, approx 150msq with little room in loft. Insulation will be 90mm kingspan wall, 70mm kingspan floors and 400mm fibre in loft.

Attached at top is my current plan for installing the Water cylinder, - I would appreciate all and any views on the subject.

Thanks

Sounds like a plan
You will need some sort of gravity heat leak for when house is up to temp
Simple cylinder stat on buffer wired to pump heat exchanger then pump out to rads ect
Can't see your plan
36x18 direct cylinder be plenty

 

[dlm4473]

Thanks, As store will be in loft space, I am proposing, instead of heat sink, another heat exchanger fed with mains cold to cool down tank on overheat using thermostatic let-by valve at 95 degrees or so. Also considering backup power supply to keep things going in a power cut - this more for the comfort side of things rather than safety - but all the same one more level of safety.

 

[Gray0689]

Thanks, As store will be in loft space, I am proposing, instead of heat sink, another heat exchanger fed with mains cold to cool down tank on overheat using thermostatic let-by valve at 95 degrees or so. Also considering backup power supply to keep things going in a power cut - this more for the comfort side of things rather than safety - but all the same one more level of safety.

Can't see that way passing building control

 

[albatross]

It seems overly complicated to me.
Fit a thermal store in the loft. Connect stove and boiler to it. Open system. Forget heat exch./unvented cyl/motorised valves/bypass. Thermal store will act as a buffer and a heat sink

 

[Gray0689]

It seems overly complicated to me.
Fit a thermal store in the loft. Connect stove and boiler to it. Open system. Forget heat exch./unvented cyl/motorised valves/bypass. Thermal store will act as a buffer and a heat sink

The hex is only if it's wanted to keep both systems separated
Your way is good too

 

[dlm4473]

It seems overly complicated to me.
Fit a thermal store in the loft. Connect stove and boiler to it. Open system. Forget heat exch./unvented cyl/motorised valves/bypass. Thermal store will act as a buffer and a heat sink

One of the problems is that there is no room (or money!) for the size of store that would be needed. What i'm basically doing is splitting a thermal store in two and seperating Heating from water = 2 shorter tanks. At the same time the systems are kept seperate as to be honest I am unsure how much either system will be used. I don't see the point in heating an entire thermal store (extra 300l or so) with an oil boiler - when i can just heat the rads directly, also without extra heatloss of tank and pipework.

Have valves, stats pumps etc lying around, no cost. heat exchangers £20 - 30 on ebay (SH) only expense I can see will be safety valves,overheat valves and loading valve. An off the shelf thermal store can't compete with that .

Can't see that way passing building control

This is what I mean (kind of) - this came from a solid fuel association manual as an example of "additional overheat protection". The same thing can be achieved with a HE , negating the need for extra coil in tank. Cold mains in - Discharge to drain. A heat exchanger/ overheat on gravity circuit, would also allow store to be lower or at same level as the stove, store would obviously be on a pumped circuit.

I struggle with the heat leak radiator thing i.e. -Assuming worst case scenario - house upto temp (rad valves closed) and water cylinder upto temp and store upto temp - (ignoring the fact that the stove has its own thermostat) I really dont understand how a heat leak rad of between 1KW and 25% total output [depending which advice you take] can dissapate 10KW of heat from the stove? Using an overheat system with HE ensures you can can dissapate all excess heat completely . Depending on size of HE which could be 30, 50 or even 100KW you can do it extreemly fast too. At 95 degrees this would prevent overheat before the P/T relief valve opens.

 

[Gray0689]

Are you planning to stay in this house or ever move
If it's not done to a recognised building control method you won't be able to sell house
If anything goes wrong your insurance most probably won't pay out either
Just my opinion

 

[dlm4473]

Good point - I had assumed that as long as requirements for safety were met, it wouldnt matter how. :sweatdrop: . I would have thought, especially as idea came from "solid fuel association" that it would be a recognised method.

Suppose i can always email a copy of final plans to local B.C. - they are pretty good up here if your asking for advice / confirmation.

 

[Howsie]

You will struggle without skin as well. Heat leak is there for a reason.

 

[Nostrum]

So is the heat exchanger fed off the store via a pump? And gravity off the stove into the store?

 

[dlm4473]

Howsie - the heat exchanger IS the heat leak !

 

[Killy Bing]

Howsie - the heat exchanger IS the heat leak !

thats silly

a heat leak has to be able to act on gravity in the event of power failure and be able to disperse a certain amount of the heat that the stove can generate !!!!

unless that's a bloody big heat exchanger !!!

 

[SimonG]

Why re invent the wheel when there are a number of systems in place to do exactly what you want that are acceptable methods to building control.

Can I ask if you are an engineer op?

 

[Gray0689]

Howsie - the heat exchanger IS the heat leak !

Think about the wording HEAT-LEAK
A hex is not that

 

[dlm4473]

1KW - 2.5 KW heat leak rad vs 30 / 50 / 100 KW Heat exchanger ? cant really see your point ?
The thermostatic valve opens at 95 degrees allowing cold mains water through exchanger and to drain. No power required - how exactly is that silly. Trying to dissapate 10KW of heat through a 2.5 KW heat leak rad sounds silly to me.

 

[Dotty]

Think you need to get someone in before it costs you a lot of money.

 

[SimonG]

1KW - 2.5 KW heat leak rad vs 30 / 50 / 100 KW Heat exchanger ? cant really see your point ?
The thermostatic valve opens at 95 degrees allowing cold mains water through exchanger and to drain. No power required - how exactly is that silly. Trying to dissapate 10KW of heat through a 2.5 KW heat leak rad sounds silly to me.

Contravenes the energy eficiency part of the building regs.

Also what happens when the valve fails?

 

[Killy Bing]

You know what, please do this.

i want to see how bad the thermal shock will be on the news......

 

[Gray0689]

1KW - 2.5 KW heat leak rad vs 30 / 50 / 100 KW Heat exchanger ? cant really see your point ?
The thermostatic valve opens at 95 degrees allowing cold mains water through exchanger and to drain. No power required - how exactly is that silly. Trying to dissapate 10KW of heat through a 2.5 KW heat leak rad sounds silly to me.

I'm out

 

[dlm4473]

Contravenes the energy eficiency part of the building regs.

Also what happens when the valve fails?

So does a heat leak radiator ! but as its a safety device its allowed.

If the valve fails the flow from the stove boils and overflows into the F&E tank (Vented !). Which can and does happen often using only a heat leak rad.

And for that to happen it would need - a power cut to remove the pumped circuit to rads (heat leak), failure of the stove thermostat which controls the draft (and therefore its output), a 200l tank of water to have reached 95 degrees.

SIMONG
Yes there are, and this is one of them - as i stated its main use is to allow solid fuel connections to unvented cylinders.

Killy Bing - what exactly are you talking about ? you obviously have not read the thread or understand the system i'm discussing - as i asked you before please explain to me how you believe that a 1KW heak leak can dissipate 10KW of energy from a stove during a power cut ? What do you think happens when the water in your heat leak rad reaches 95 degrees ?

 

[Dotty]

I'm out

It's another of those threads I gaze at with morbid fascination!

 

[dlm4473]

So is the heat exchanger fed off the store via a pump? And gravity off the stove into the store?

Just to clarify - there will be TWO heat exchangers on the store.

One smallish one (15/25KW)pumped from store on one side and pumped by CH pump on the other. This will feed the CH and DHW circuits (using thermostatic valve to control flow temp)

The SECOND heat exchanger (50KW or so) is installed purely as an overheat protection. It will be controlled by watts sts20 or similar. As it will be on the gravity circuit it will not need pumped from the stove, as valve is connected to mains cold, that requires no pump. Using this sort of device would facilitate connecting a store to an unvented tank - although mine will be vented.

 

[Gray0689]

It's another of those threads I gaze at with morbid fascination!

It amazes me john that when someone asked for advice
Then just totally does the opposite lol
Sure let them do what they want it's not my house lol

 

[Nostrum]

Can't quite see how the second heat distributing heat exchanger will work effectively. The cold water will cool the heat exchanger, but the stove will carry on heating the store? The heat loss will be negligible.

unless the bottle of cheap 'meal deal' champagne I'm drinking is hindering my reading abilities?

 

[Gray0689]

Can't quite see how the second heat distributing heat exchanger will work effectively. The cold water will cool the heat exchanger, but the stove will carry on heating the store? The heat loss will be negligible.

unless the bottle of cheap 'meal deal' champagne I'm drinking is hindering my reading abilities?

Vintage krug it is then lol

 

[Nostrum]

Smart price bollinger I think.

 

[dlm4473]

Can't quite see how the second heat distributing heat exchanger will work effectively. The cold water will cool the heat exchanger, but the stove will carry on heating the store? The heat loss will be negligible.

Hot input to heat exchanger is main gravity flow - cooled output to gravity return . Valves stays open as long as water temp >95 degrees. Cooled return will speed up gravity flow which in turn speeds cooling. A 50KW heat exchanger will cool 5 times faster (with sufficiant flow) than the stove (10KW) can heat. This method will ensure the water cannot boil - which a a heat leak can only "help" to prevent.

This system is already incorporated into off the shelf thermal stores - xcel heat bank is one that i know of. wont let me post links but youl find it on heatweb. To quote from their site

"Another unique aspect of the Xcel Heat Bank (again, patented by us so unavailable anywhere else) is its ability to protect from overheating, even during a power cut. This system was designed primarily for systems connected to a wood burner. It is needed because wood burners provide a large amount of energy, and they don't turn off, even when there is a power cut. As such they easily have the ability to boil the water in a thermal store if there is no other form of protection.
The standard approach is to use a heat leak radiator - located higher than the wood burner so that heat generated in the wood burner circulates naturally (thermo-syphon) to the radiator where heat is dissipated and the cooled water drops back into the wood burner. This is fine providing:

1. 
   [*=1] The wood burner is thermostatic, and slows its burn rate down when it gets hot.
   [*=1] The heat leak radiator is large enough to dump the output of the wood burner.
   [*=1] A location can be found above the wood burner for a dedicated heat leak radiator.

The problems start occurring when not all of these criteria can be met, and given that most wood burners are not thermostatic and have an output of approx 9kW to water, the chances of dedicating 9kW of radiators (three large double convectors) to this function becomes impossible.
The protection system on the Xcel works on the basis that the heat can circulate from the wood burner to the Heat Bank naturally using thermo-syphon (gravity) circulation. The Xcel is fitted with a heat exchanger in the top, and if the temperature of the water in the store ever goes over 95°C then a mechanical valve opens up to allow cold mains water to pass through the heat exchanger and out to drain, cooling down the stored water as it does so. The heat exchanger can extract over 12kW of heat and as such is suitable for all types of wood burner, and in many instances is the only way that the latest building regulations (now covering vented systems) can me met when using a wood burner."

Hence the reason i am confused at the advice being given - i'm not ignoring anyones advice i'm trying to understand it.

 

[Dotty]

The advice is get someone in who knows what they're doing. You don't need to understand the system.

You just need faith in it. And what you're looking to do I wouldn't put faith in if I were you.

 

[dlm4473]

The advice is get someone in who knows what they're doing. You don't need to understand the system.

You just need faith in it. And what you're looking to do I wouldn't put faith in if I were you.

The only problem there croppie is that I would struggle to have faith in the people that say they "know what there doing" when they ;

1) cant answer a simple question i.e. how does a 1KW heat leak rad dissapate heat from a 10KW stove
2) Whilst professing how knowlegable they are - are apparently unaware that this system is fitted to off-the-shelf thermal stores - presumably (but i could be wrong) passing all relevant standards inc. building control and WRAS.
3) Appear to think that Danfoss (and other manufacturers) who designed and made these valves specifically for use with heat exchangers for overhead protection on solid fuel heating systems are "silly" and don't know what they are doing.

Would you have faith in that person ? or the system they installed ?

 

[Gray0689]

The only problem there croppie is that I would struggle to have faith in the people that say they "know what there doing" when they ;

1) cant answer a simple question i.e. how does a 1KW heat leak rad dissapate heat from a 10KW stove
2) Whilst professing how knowlegable they are - are apparently unaware that this system is fitted to off-the-shelf thermal stores - presumably (but i could be wrong) passing all relevant standards inc. building control and WRAS.
3) Appear to think that Danfoss (and other manufacturers) who designed and made these valves specifically for use with heat exchangers for overhead protection on solid fuel heating systems are "silly" and don't know what they are doing.

Would you have faith in that person ? or the system they installed ?

Yep probably more than you

 

[dlm4473]

Can't quite see how the second heat distributing heat exchanger will work effectively. The cold water will cool the heat exchanger, but the stove will carry on heating the store? The heat loss will be negligible.

Hot feed to Heat exchanger is on gravity flow (as is sensor) Cooled water from exchanger returns to gravity return. Difference in temp will increase gravity flow (which would just about stall at 95 degrees) more cooling performed by exchanger the faster gravity flow through exchanger - the faster cooling takes place. When temp goes below 95 in top of gravity flow circuit (hotest part of circuit) the sensor shuts off the valve.

 

[Gray0689]

Dlm
What is your profession

 

[Killy Bing]

Hot feed to Heat exchanger is on gravity flow (as is sensor) Cooled water from exchanger returns to gravity return. Difference in temp will increase gravity flow (which would just about stall at 95 degrees) more cooling performed by exchanger the faster gravity flow through exchanger - the faster cooling takes place. When temp goes below 95 in top of gravity flow circuit (hotest part of circuit) the sensor shuts off the valve.

.......so at 95 degrees on one side of the heat exchanger.....you intend to flush the other side with mains water to reduce the temp?

correct?

 

[dlm4473]

Yep probably more than you

I thought you were "out" if your going to nothing but critisise why keep posting ? You gave me advise to check out with building control - which I've done - but you can't even wait for the response before you say the system and me are incapable of doing the job !

You havn't even attemped to respond to any of the three questions above - that would be giving advice! so tell me how does a heak leak radiator of 1KW stop the water boiling in a system that is outputing 10KW ?

 

[Gray0689]

.......so at 95 degrees on one side of the heat exchanger.....you intend to flush the other side with mains water to reduce the temp?

correct?

Yep think he does
So let's sat you cool hex without busting it from the shock of the incoming cold mains
So hex gets cooled
What cools the stove as it is sitting at 95
Fire still lit still producing uncontrolled heat
It starts to boil then flashed to steam as the hex is not dissipating the heat
Increasing its volume by (come on op you should know this one)

I wouldn't like to be to near it myself

 

[Gray0689]

I thought you were "out" if your going to nothing but critisise why keep posting ? You gave me advise to check out with building control - which I've done - but you can't even wait for the response before you say the system and me are incapable of doing the job !

You havn't even attemped to respond to any of the three questions above - that would be giving advice! so tell me how does a heak leak radiator of 10KW stop the water boiling in a system that is outputing 10KW ?

Because I don't need to tell you
YOU should already know that answer
Plus it's not 10kw radiator
Check your facts

 

[Gray0689]

I thought you were "out" if your going to nothing but critisise why keep posting ? You gave me advise to check out with building control - which I've done - but you can't even wait for the response before you say the system and me are incapable of doing the job !

You havn't even attemped to respond to any of the three questions above - that would be giving advice! so tell me how does a heak leak radiator of 10KW stop the water boiling in a system that is outputing 10KW ?

But yes your correct and it's not criticism just my opinion
I'm out lol

 

[dlm4473]

Yep think he does

It starts to boil then flashed to steam as the hex is not dissipating the heat
Increasing its volume by (come on op you should know this one)

I wouldn't like to be to near it myself

ON A VENTED SYSTEM !!!!!!- WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN ! would it be exactly the same that would happen on a system with a heat leak rad when it boils ?

 

[Nostrum]

I'm not sure if radically cooling the middle of a gravity circuit will induce circulation at all. You'll have heat at top and bottom and a cool heat exchanger?

Would you not be better off with a coil in the buffer and pass cold water through this?

 

[Killy Bing]

Thermal shock......heat exchange goes bang bang.....

 

[Gray0689]

ON A VENTED SYSTEM !!!!!!- WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN ! would it be exactly the same that would happen on a system with a heat leak rad when it boils ?

Will it ok that's grand then

 

[Howsie]

Howsie - the heat exchanger IS the heat leak !

Whatever you say. Goodnight.

 

[dlm4473]

Thanks you Nostrum - some advice !.

yes i'm considering that as an option, but i prefered the external valve and exchanger for flexibilty - e.g. could change size of tank reasonably cheaply if its too small or too large.
fyi. that method uses exactly the same valves.

As for placement - valve and exchanger could be placed anywhere teed off gravity flow, there is some logic to having it as close to stove as possible and some in having it before tee for store.

I really can't see the hostility to the external approach - the heat exchanger will be subect to the same thermal shock as every other heat exchanger fitted to a thermal store that provides DHW.

 

[Nostrum]

I really don't think a cooled heat exchanger 'inline' will offer significant cooling.

When you think the boiler will still be lit, you may just stop gravity circulation dead and cause the stove to boil? I'm not sure if honest but I wouldn't want to try it.

you could still use the valve, but pass it through a coil in the store which would cool the store down rapidly and allow the stove to burn out and dissipate into the store.

the only additional expense would be the additional cost for a store with a coil, but you'd save on a heat exchanger and the potential for it not to work.

 

[Dotty]

The only problem there croppie is that I would struggle to have faith in the people that say they "know what there doing" when they ;

1) cant answer a simple question i.e. how does a 1KW heat leak rad dissapate heat from a 10KW stove
2) Whilst professing how knowlegable they are - are apparently unaware that this system is fitted to off-the-shelf thermal stores - presumably (but i could be wrong) passing all relevant standards inc. building control and WRAS.
3) Appear to think that Danfoss (and other manufacturers) who designed and made these valves specifically for use with heat exchangers for overhead protection on solid fuel heating systems are "silly" and don't know what they are doing.

Would you have faith in that person ? or the system they installed ?

Pray explain to me why we should go through the expense of training, certification and accreditations just so we can entertain your curiosity.

It won't work. It can, but not the way you're proposing.

The advice is get someone in because you haven't a clue and someone will get hurt by it.

 

[dlm4473]

only concern i have there is that the coil would be empty (although open to atmosphere) until (if ever) the valve is used, assuming valve pre coil ? If valve was placed after coil it would be unvented.

In your opinion would there be any issues having an empty coil in the tank ? What size of coil would you specify ?

btw I posted a jpg of what your talking about near the beginning of the thread.

 

[dlm4473]

Nostrum: finally found the origional plan that set me on this track . Copied from Heatweb site DPS MultiFuel Heat Bank Thermal Store - hope it clarifies what i'm talking about.

Anyway ;

"The following diagram shows a suitable circuit which allows both pumped operation to a thermal store, and also has a gravity circuit that comes into play when the pump is not running. During overheat conditions the TS130 valve opens up to allow the cold mains to flow through the heat exchanger, cooling the circuit and driving gravity circulation. This form of overheat works without power, although power will required to pump water from the store to provide central heating."


​

 

[SimonG]

Still waiting for an answer to #16 and #20. Not that it will make a difference.

Posts like this remind me of my kids when they were 2. They would ask a question which I would answer and they would say no it isnt.


Now you either want advice, or you do truly think you have reinvented the wheel and thought that we would be queuing up to pat you you on the back. So either listen to the advice, which does come from a lot of experience or do one.


Could you post the start of your post code?



Just want to make sure I live nowhere near you.

 

[tamz]

The only problem there croppie is that I would struggle to have faith in the people that say they "know what there doing" when they ;

1) cant answer a simple question i.e. how does a 1KW heat leak rad dissapate heat from a 10KW stove (It doesn't)
2) Whilst professing how knowlegable they are - are apparently unaware that this system is fitted to off-the-shelf thermal stores(aka heatwell, because it is sold doesn't make it legal) - presumably (but i could be wrong) passing all relevant standards inc. building control and WRAS (the part you are on about doesn't as a means of control).
3) Appear to think that Danfoss (and other manufacturers) who designed and made these valves specifically for use (outside the uk) with heat exchangers for overhead protection on solid fuel heating systems are "silly" and don't know what they are doing.

Would you have faith in that person ? or the system they installed ?

Whilst these things may be available and legal elsewhere, they cannot be legally fitted in the UK as a satisfactory means of control.
You will do what you will do anyway as you know best. Don't try to get justification from anyone else and if you cant find someone to fit and sign it off, diy and try to get the paperwork yourself.

 

[Reg Man]

This thread is very concerning. For a project of this type, consult a HETAS engineer, it will save loads of grief and will be safe. Solid fuel is an uncontrolled heat source and therefore needs to be separated from the rest of the system, by, as previously said, a thermal store with heat sink radiators.

 

[dlm4473]

As stated in the first post the stove heats the buffer / accumulator - which is seperated from the rest of the system by a heat exchanger. With power on heat leak is provided by the pumped CH circuit. Without power 50Kw heat dump activates on overheat. To fit a heat leak rad would mean installing it in an uninsulated attic space, requireing gallons of antifreeze - and as no-one appears willing to admit -it is incapable of preventing an overheat condition at worst case scenario.

opinions that the heat exchanger will suffer thermal shock due to heat of store and incoming cold mains fail to recognise that every thermal store that uses a heat exchanger to provide DHW does the exact same thing in reverse.

As for HETAS engineer thats kind of what i was hoping for on the "oil and solid fuel forum"

 

[Killy Bing]

As stated in the first post the stove heats the buffer / accumulator - which is seperated from the rest of the system by a heat exchanger. With power on heat leak is provided by the pumped CH circuit. Without power 50Kw heat dump activates on overheat. To fit a heat leak rad would mean installing it in an uninsulated attic space, requireing gallons of antifreeze - and as no-one appears willing to admit -it is incapable of preventing an overheat condition at worst case scenario.

opinions that the heat exchanger will suffer thermal shock due to heat of store and incoming cold mains fail to recognise that every thermal store that uses a heat exchanger to provide DHW does the exact same thing in reverse.

As for HETAS engineer thats kind of what i was hoping for on the "oil and solid fuel forum"

You've missed out areas that we don't even have to think about while designing these systems because its basic to us.
you're just too blinded by your own ideas to listen to reason.

You didn't come here for advice, you came here to have your ego rubbed.

please go ahead and do this.
and come back when you've partially flooded you house and turned it into a sauna too.

p.s you're wrong on the heat exchangers, only a madman or a naive tool would even consider running a heat exchanger with a max of 91 degree difference........

i'm out.

 

[dlm4473]

You've missed out areas that we don't even have to think about while designing these systems because its basic to us. Would one of those things you dont have to think about be the ability to read ?

you're just too blinded by your own ideas to listen to reason. NOT MY IDEA ! - it was taken from a thermal store manufacturers web site! - that I linked to! (see below) Think it might be you who is too blinded by his own ideas !

You didn't come here for advice, you came here to have your ego rubbed. Yes my ego has been trulely rubbed - I am so proud of myself for asking advice on a thermal store manufactures system that i cut and pasted into a forum !

p.s you're wrong on the heat exchangers, only a madman or a naive tool would even consider running a heat exchanger with a max of 91 degree difference........ You mean like the ones fitted to every combi boiler sold ? on sealed systems pressurised to 2 bar ? With overheat stats rated at 107 degrees ? Are all designers at Worcester (or pick the manufacturer of choice) madmen and or naive tools ? Or are you speaking out of your discharge pipe !

i'm out. Thank God !

"my" design is on this previous post . . .

Nostrum: finally found the origional plan that set me on this track . Copied from Heatweb site DPS MultiFuel Heat Bank Thermal Store - hope it clarifies what i'm talking about.

 

[Reg Man]

Why even bother coming on to this forum, you obviously think you have all the answers and will not be moved from your own idea's, which are frankly floored, but its not going in. Go ahead and do your cheap little install and lets hope you don't kill any of your family in the process. I'm out.

 

[dlm4473]

you have all the answers and will not be moved from your own idea's,

Seriously !

NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!! NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!

as far as all the answers - i'm still waiting for a single response explaining how a heat leak rad can prevent boiling !
Only one poster suggests a feasable alternative which i'm looking at - so hardly "will not be moved".

will not be moved based on opinions of people who refuse to justify their answers with nothing more than "we know but were not telling" or "trust me i'm an expert but can't explain what your asking" is more like it !

If youv'e said your piece and don't want to or can't explain then why post in the first place?


If you think the firm that designed this sytem are wrong - explain why - maybe with your expert knowledge you should contact them directly to tell them their systems are dangerous . . ? But no you choose to critisize me, and "my" silly ideas !

If you post that "your out" then stay out ! Why cause all the hastle ?

 

[SimonG]

Still no answer to post 16 and 20.

 

[Gray0689]

Seriously !

NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!! NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!

as far as all the answers - i'm still waiting for a single response explaining how a heat leak rad can prevent boiling !
Only one poster suggests a feasable alternative which i'm looking at - so hardly "will not be moved".

will not be moved based on opinions of people who refuse to justify their answers with nothing more than "we know but were not telling" or "trust me i'm an expert but can't explain what your asking" is more like it !

If youv'e said your piece and don't want to or can't explain then why post in the first place?


If you think the firm that designed this sytem are wrong - explain why - maybe with your expert knowledge you should contact them directly to tell them their systems are dangerous . . ? But no you choose to critisize me, and "my" silly ideas !

If you post that "your out" then stay out ! Why cause all the hastle ?

Grow up
No one is going to help you with that attitude
your not listening
What you want to do is against regulations in UK
End of story
Your attitude stinks

 

[Dotty]

The only advice you're getting is get someone in. What you are proposing is dangerous.

You are demonstrating a serious lack of understanding which we cannot help you with and you are now winding members up.

Thread closed.

 

[Lou]

I am updating threads. If this is not current then please visit the Oil & Solid Fuel Forum and post a new thread.