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dlm4473
ON A VENTED SYSTEM !!!!!!- WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN ! would it be exactly the same that would happen on a system with a heat leak rad when it boils ?
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
ON A VENTED SYSTEM !!!!!!- WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN ! would it be exactly the same that would happen on a system with a heat leak rad when it boils ?
I'm not sure if radically cooling the middle of a gravity circuit will induce circulation at all. You'll have heat at top and bottom and a cool heat exchanger?
Would you not be better off with a coil in the buffer and pass cold water through this?
Would you not be better off with a coil in the buffer and pass cold water through this?
G
Gray0689
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dlm4473
Thanks you Nostrum - some advice !.
yes i'm considering that as an option, but i prefered the external valve and exchanger for flexibilty - e.g. could change size of tank reasonably cheaply if its too small or too large.
fyi. that method uses exactly the same valves.
As for placement - valve and exchanger could be placed anywhere teed off gravity flow, there is some logic to having it as close to stove as possible and some in having it before tee for store.
I really can't see the hostility to the external approach - the heat exchanger will be subect to the same thermal shock as every other heat exchanger fitted to a thermal store that provides DHW.
yes i'm considering that as an option, but i prefered the external valve and exchanger for flexibilty - e.g. could change size of tank reasonably cheaply if its too small or too large.
fyi. that method uses exactly the same valves.
As for placement - valve and exchanger could be placed anywhere teed off gravity flow, there is some logic to having it as close to stove as possible and some in having it before tee for store.
I really can't see the hostility to the external approach - the heat exchanger will be subect to the same thermal shock as every other heat exchanger fitted to a thermal store that provides DHW.
I really don't think a cooled heat exchanger 'inline' will offer significant cooling.
When you think the boiler will still be lit, you may just stop gravity circulation dead and cause the stove to boil? I'm not sure if honest but I wouldn't want to try it.
you could still use the valve, but pass it through a coil in the store which would cool the store down rapidly and allow the stove to burn out and dissipate into the store.
the only additional expense would be the additional cost for a store with a coil, but you'd save on a heat exchanger and the potential for it not to work.
When you think the boiler will still be lit, you may just stop gravity circulation dead and cause the stove to boil? I'm not sure if honest but I wouldn't want to try it.
you could still use the valve, but pass it through a coil in the store which would cool the store down rapidly and allow the stove to burn out and dissipate into the store.
the only additional expense would be the additional cost for a store with a coil, but you'd save on a heat exchanger and the potential for it not to work.
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Dotty
Pray explain to me why we should go through the expense of training, certification and accreditations just so we can entertain your curiosity.
It won't work. It can, but not the way you're proposing.
The advice is get someone in because you haven't a clue and someone will get hurt by it.
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dlm4473
only concern i have there is that the coil would be empty (although open to atmosphere) until (if ever) the valve is used, assuming valve pre coil ? If valve was placed after coil it would be unvented.
In your opinion would there be any issues having an empty coil in the tank ? What size of coil would you specify ?
btw I posted a jpg of what your talking about near the beginning of the thread.
In your opinion would there be any issues having an empty coil in the tank ? What size of coil would you specify ?
btw I posted a jpg of what your talking about near the beginning of the thread.
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dlm4473
Nostrum: finally found the origional plan that set me on this track . Copied from Heatweb site DPS MultiFuel Heat Bank Thermal Store - hope it clarifies what i'm talking about.
Anyway ;
Anyway ;
"The following diagram shows a suitable circuit which allows both pumped operation to a thermal store, and also has a gravity circuit that comes into play when the pump is not running. During overheat conditions the TS130 valve opens up to allow the cold mains to flow through the heat exchanger, cooling the circuit and driving gravity circulation. This form of overheat works without power, although power will required to pump water from the store to provide central heating."
Attachments
Still waiting for an answer to #16 and #20. Not that it will make a difference.
Posts like this remind me of my kids when they were 2. They would ask a question which I would answer and they would say no it isnt.
Now you either want advice, or you do truly think you have reinvented the wheel and thought that we would be queuing up to pat you you on the back. So either listen to the advice, which does come from a lot of experience or do one.
Could you post the start of your post code?
Just want to make sure I live nowhere near you.
Posts like this remind me of my kids when they were 2. They would ask a question which I would answer and they would say no it isnt.
Now you either want advice, or you do truly think you have reinvented the wheel and thought that we would be queuing up to pat you you on the back. So either listen to the advice, which does come from a lot of experience or do one.
Could you post the start of your post code?
Just want to make sure I live nowhere near you.
T
tamz
Whilst these things may be available and legal elsewhere, they cannot be legally fitted in the UK as a satisfactory means of control.
You will do what you will do anyway as you know best. Don't try to get justification from anyone else and if you cant find someone to fit and sign it off, diy and try to get the paperwork yourself.
This thread is very concerning. For a project of this type, consult a HETAS engineer, it will save loads of grief and will be safe. Solid fuel is an uncontrolled heat source and therefore needs to be separated from the rest of the system, by, as previously said, a thermal store with heat sink radiators.
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dlm4473
As stated in the first post the stove heats the buffer / accumulator - which is seperated from the rest of the system by a heat exchanger. With power on heat leak is provided by the pumped CH circuit. Without power 50Kw heat dump activates on overheat. To fit a heat leak rad would mean installing it in an uninsulated attic space, requireing gallons of antifreeze - and as no-one appears willing to admit -it is incapable of preventing an overheat condition at worst case scenario.
opinions that the heat exchanger will suffer thermal shock due to heat of store and incoming cold mains fail to recognise that every thermal store that uses a heat exchanger to provide DHW does the exact same thing in reverse.
As for HETAS engineer thats kind of what i was hoping for on the "oil and solid fuel forum"
opinions that the heat exchanger will suffer thermal shock due to heat of store and incoming cold mains fail to recognise that every thermal store that uses a heat exchanger to provide DHW does the exact same thing in reverse.
As for HETAS engineer thats kind of what i was hoping for on the "oil and solid fuel forum"
You've missed out areas that we don't even have to think about while designing these systems because its basic to us.
you're just too blinded by your own ideas to listen to reason.
You didn't come here for advice, you came here to have your ego rubbed.
please go ahead and do this.
and come back when you've partially flooded you house and turned it into a sauna too.
p.s you're wrong on the heat exchangers, only a madman or a naive tool would even consider running a heat exchanger with a max of 91 degree difference........
i'm out.
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dlm4473
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Why even bother coming on to this forum, you obviously think you have all the answers and will not be moved from your own idea's, which are frankly floored, but its not going in. Go ahead and do your cheap little install and lets hope you don't kill any of your family in the process. I'm out.
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dlm4473
Seriously !
NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!! NOT MY IDEA !!!!!!!!!!!
as far as all the answers - i'm still waiting for a single response explaining how a heat leak rad can prevent boiling !
Only one poster suggests a feasable alternative which i'm looking at - so hardly "will not be moved".
will not be moved based on opinions of people who refuse to justify their answers with nothing more than "we know but were not telling" or "trust me i'm an expert but can't explain what your asking" is more like it !
If youv'e said your piece and don't want to or can't explain then why post in the first place?
If you think the firm that designed this sytem are wrong - explain why - maybe with your expert knowledge you should contact them directly to tell them their systems are dangerous . . ? But no you choose to critisize me, and "my" silly ideas !
If you post that "your out" then stay out ! Why cause all the hastle ?
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Gray0689
Grow up
No one is going to help you with that attitude
your not listening
What you want to do is against regulations in UK
End of story
Your attitude stinks
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