Pipe must be fully insert into fitting...

[WaterTight]

Well, we all know it doesn't. Or rather, you can mostly get away with the pipe only just inserting into fitting when in a tough situation.

Whether it be copper into compression or end feed or waste pipe into fittings I've yet to have a leak when circumstances force me to insert only a little into fitting.

My question is why would you need to anyway? Is there a genuine reason why that joint is less likely to stand the test of time than one fully inserted? I've pulled apart no end of joints that look 25 years old or more with a microscopic bit of copper protruding past the olive. I mean if it was that necessary they wouldn't make slip couplings. I just feel slightly guilty when I have to resort to it because no play in pipes or not enough to work with like I've bodged it to a degree...but is it a bodge at all?

 

[Phil]

Oh you're so the chancer that goes around leaving pipes not pushed in enough! :icon7: lol.

Given the choice I'd rather push them in all the way than only into the olive, but on a recent job swapping old 70's rad valves, the new TRV's (Danfoss) had a silly little fitting depth where the originals had a nice deep one. Only problem was the pipes had ZERO play in them so I had to hacksaw a slither off each one on that nasty thin 70's copper.

I want all fitting depths standardised!!

Comp fittings can leak when subject to prolonged movement (eg water hammer or if the pipe is waggled) the ones that are only pushed into the olive will be the ones that fly apart.

I had one come apart on me on a toilet feed, I turned the iso valve off and undid the tap connector and all hell broke loose WHOOOSH!!
Upstairs bathroom swimming in water, it turned out the pipe was only HALF way into the olive and had held for 20 years. Luckily the customer was stood watching so he raced downstairs to try and turn off the seized stopcock. Gulp.

 

[stevetheplumber]

the joint is made where the olive contacts the fitting the extra entry past that point is to stop the pipe moving from side to side so if well clipped shouldnt make any diffence
me I'd never half sockets it between two fixed points

 

[arran197]

I have seen half soldered joints on pipework that is ancient. Only thing keeping it together has been the other pipework pushing on it! That was a ladder system in a block of flats too. It's amazing really, these joints last years, yet you solder a bit of 15mm and it doesn't quite take and the whole floor is covered in black water!

 

[cdodds2004]

i dont mind adjust solderd fittings, or solvent etc but when i was a aprentice i had a nightmare on a friday night doing a compression coupler the pipe slipped out with out me noticing, tightend up, filled system rad gets hot, joint leaks slightly, gaffer gives it a tighten, water everywere, drain down and late finish and annoyed boss, so ever since that day im really anal with compression tighting up then undoing to make sure olive is on pipe correctly and even wrapping in ptfe on occasions, NEVER want that to happen again, although i did laff when he got soaked.

 

[Dannypipe]

I always ensure the fitting is fully pushed home. Just my nature.

That said, some compression joints are a LOT deeper than others.

I feel guilty when I use a street elbow in the compression joint unless its one of the longer type.

 

[GQuigley67]

its dodgy with compression, if you disconnect and check the olive you can usually hammer it fully slipped then re-tighten. I have not had a problem with solder or solvent yet, but had problems with compression which havent been fully slipped so i always check now, usually tighten slightly, then undo and put paste/ptfe round olive then horse it up

 

[kay-jay]

interesting!

i personally always ensure full insertion depth on compression, but on solvent or soldered if i'm a mil or 2 short i don't worry.

i attended a outside tap other day where the pipe was soldered onto the backplate but had blown off. on inspection the solder had run round the pipe but not tinned to the full slip depth, in fact it was less than half. it was old as pipe was 1/2 inch, so probable that the solder was leaded and it kinda made me think about the integrity of the soldered joints i do on heating pipework with leaded solder. its apparent when you use it that it is nowhere near as viscose as lead free so i wondered about how deep the solder was running into the slip.

what do you guys think

 

[SafeGasInstall]

me to all the way in ........🙂
and if not sure I undo it quickly and check how much has it got in ,if happy ok but if not it comes out !
solder fittings only half in on old low pressure systems are ok and they have been ok for number of years ,but once you disturb the pipe work and pressurise the system then is a disaster waiting to happen

 

[stevetheplumber]

ptfe tape on compression fittings is a sure sign that an amature plumbers been there before you ls all over them is the second sign

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I use ptfe when change rad valves , always put min two rounds of ptfe over the olive

 

[GQuigley67]

ptfe tape on compression fittings is a sure sign that an amature plumbers been there before you ls all over them is the second sign

wouldnt agree with this statement at all to be honest, ptfe around the olive is perfectly fine and can help when you have a leak without it, ptfe around the threads of compression fittings now thats a sign of an amateur

 

[stevie t]

I know what you mean done the same thing (pipe slipping out without noticing ended up over tightening comp fitting, drain down etc). Went through that phase double checking adding PTFE to the extent I thought I had a touch of OCD mixed with tourettes haha lol. Dont want to teach you to suck eggs but it may be helpful to apprentice plumbers starting out. Line the end of pipe to outside of comp/pushfit fitting and mark the pipe as if its in the full slip of fitting. This takes away the "hope I put that in right" factor. Insert pipe, tighten and forget about it. Simples!

PS ran into a tourettes rally last week. They started shouting: "what do we want"..."a cure for tourettes"...
"when do we want it"..."C**ts". No offence meant but the more you think of it the funnier it gets! :walkman:

 

[stevie t]

Yeah best to use a jointing compound especially if you need to slacken off an old comp fitting.