Working pressure effecting combustion.

[clemda1]

If the combustion readings are ok how would you justify AR ? the conversation with the customer would be interesting... yes your boiler is running fine and is completely safe but I am turning it off because the gas pressure is low and I don't like it.

Hey Bill, I see your point. But I fear that fails to to take into account what may happen under ever changing variables. For example. What would happen if the regulator on the meter was on the blink and started restricting the supply to the boiler at high demand. Would you be confident that given that scenario the op would still get the same pressure reading given the undersized pipework?
Ultimately it’s a risk assessment and personally I tend to air on the side of caution when conducting them and like Dake77 said we have no authority to switch off the system. It purely advisory. Whether your customer decides to take up that advise should not prevent or deter us from giving it. Because if sh*# hits the fan after i walk out that door I can sleep easy knowing I’m covered

 

[bill577]

If you follow the correct procedure if you AR an appliance you have to switch it off (with permission) if the customer switches it back on its their responsability, please don't go down the "what if" route as you will drive yourself mad and finally I never said to keep secret that the installation has faults, let the customer know and leave a paper trail .

 

[Dake205]

My understanding was that if there’s more than one NCS then it’s classified as AR, 1 incorrect pipe sizing 2 low inlet pressure, AR requires the appliance to be made safe and notify the responsible user, in this instance the appliance is currently safe so no need to turn off but the defects could cause future problems and should be reported

 

[Knappers]

The problem is if it's AR then we should be advising the cust not to use the appliance in writing and giving the same advice verbally.
I have (and will again I'm sure) issued an AR warning cert and advise the cust it's ok to use in the short term - but it's not right.
3.4 on table 9 of unsafe sits says undersized pipework proved to affect combustion is ID so IMO undersized pipework with low working pressure not currently affecting combustion could well be AR!
I think the general logic I'll adopt is, if the working pressure at the meter is high like 21mb+ and at the appliance it's getting close to 14mb then I'll class AR on the principle that meter pressure could happily drop to 19 and that may cause combustion issues.

 

[Knappers]

My understanding was that if there’s more than one NCS then it’s classified as AR, 1 incorrect pipe sizing 2 low inlet pressure, AR requires the appliance to be made safe and notify the responsible user, in this instance the appliance is currently safe so no need to turn off but the defects could cause future problems and should be reported

I suppose it depends if you see them as seperate issues and if they compound an issue.
In this instance they are just cause and effect. ie If the pressure isn't low then the pipe isn't undersized.
The question is I guess what's low and what's too low?
I think regardless of combustion anything under 15mb is too low and 14 is an absolute minimum.

 

[Dake205]

I agree 1 can lead to the other however until pipework is sorted and you can confirm that was the low pressure issue in this instance, I’d say they should be classed as separate, what hpns if you advise that changing the pipework will sort the issue and it doesn’t

 

[Knappers]

I don't know why it wouldn't, but they're not compounding issues, one doesn't make the other worse so for me it wouldn't change how I'd class the fault.
Undersized pipework and low pressure at the meter - that compounds
Poor combustion and inadequate flue terminal clearance - that compounds
I don't know why I'm arguing the Point tho as I'd AR it anyway 🙂

 

[snowhead]

what hpns if you advise that changing the pipework will sort the issue and it doesn’t

If it doesn't, then you've got your calculations wrong, it's your fault and you'd have to keep going till it was sorted, at your own expense.

 

[Dake205]

exactly my point, it’s his job and if he doesn’t separate them and changing the pipe doesn’t solve it, he will be left with the extra expense

 

[Knappers]

I don't really understand gassafe their quite happy to let you make your own mind up but in the one time in 10years I got inspected the fella got really upset when I didn't get out the stopwatch for a drop test and said I'll time it if its dropped after I put my tools away.
I got the timer out 🙄

 

[dan_the_plumber]

‘Not to current standards’ doesn’t exist anymore! It’s AR or ID that’s it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

‘Not to current standards’ doesn’t exist anymore! It’s AR or ID that’s it.

Yes it does

 

[dan_the_plumber]

‘Not to current standards’ doesn’t exist anymore! It’s AR or ID that’s it.

Yes it does

Thats not what I’ve been told Shaun.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

‘Not to current standards’ doesn’t exist anymore! It’s AR or ID that’s it.

Thats not what I’ve been told Shaun.

I’ll check GIUSP

 

[ShaunCorbs]

There still there just note down / advise but don’t act on which is what was done before but still there

 

[dan_the_plumber]

There still there just note down / advise but don’t act on which is what was done before but still there

Well yes make a note to cover your bum for sure. But as I said NCS does not exist anymore.
There’s an update to GIUSP available on gas Safe website 🙂

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Well yes make a note to cover your bum for sure. But as I said NCS does not exist anymore.
There’s an update to GIUSP available on gas Safe website 🙂

But it does still have to note it down so still exists

 

[dan_the_plumber]

But it does still have to note it down so still exists

If you like Shaun.

 

[Riley]

But it does still have to note it down so still exists

It’s termed “Non Compliant” from what I was told last assessment.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

It’s deemed “Non Compliant” from what I was told last assessment.

It’s all there in black and white on the updated version of GIUSP available on gas Safe website 🙂