Vaillant Ecotec pro Low working gas pressure

[Victor555]

I would like some opinions on this situation.

Vaillant Ecotec pro 28

Installed 2 years ago,

Commissioned Gas pressure reading 16.5mb at max rate.

1st annual service passed.(2018)

Just has second Service all combustion tests passed, and issued a Warning Advice notice of Immediately dangerous (ID) Reason Gas pressure on gas valve 14mbar, min requ 17mb.

Action: New 22mm gas pipe.

Vaillant Boiler installation and maintenance instructions says

Permissible gas flow pressure for operation with
G20 natural gas: 1.3 … 2.3 kPa (13.0 … 23.0 mbar)

Pressure at meter good, was checked by cadent with boiler on and all gas hobs on full.
No reply from original Gas safe installer.

Should I ask a for a second opinion on why it has classed a ID?

Boiler was switched off, but gas was not capped off.

Would it be safe to run boiler ? ( has been working fine, with no faults, good flame)

Question, Approx How much would running new pipe on outside property cost from gas meter to boiler. Metre at front if house, boiler at back of house 1st floor bedroom.

 

[Riley]

Depends on kw of boiler I’d be looking at some 28mm pipe there if it’s a long run. If it’s ID it should be capped off so it sounds like an indecisive engineer. You mention good flame you shouldn’t be removing the front cover of your boiler as it creates a combustion seal. It’s not just about flame picture it will also be the FGA readings, I assume he did one

 

[Harvest Fields]

You either need to provide all the evidence to the engineer that has capped it or start over again. Boiler should be capped if Classed as immediately dangerous.

 

[Victor555]

When I meant flame good, was referring to

also no LF faults

 

[Scott_D]

How did cadent test if the boiler is off?
You can get a second opinion, they can cut a test point under the boiler to get a true reading

 

[Riley]

When I meant flame good, was referring to
View attachment 37913
also no LF faults

????

 

[Victor555]

????

D.044 >800 no flame, <400 good flame.

 

[Riley]

Please don’t mess with the D menus. And it’s not all about the probe

 

[Harvest Fields]

You need a gas safe registered engineer as I have already said above mate.

 

[Victor555]

You need a gas safe registered engineer as I have already said above mate.

Thanks, I will ask them to come back and recheck. As its under a service agreement, I hope they do come back with another Engineer to re-check. Then id still low, then will need to get quotes for new gas pipe and wondering what approx cost would be?

 

[Riley]

As we say we don’t know distances routes or where you are in the world so we can’t comment on cost

 

[Last Plumber]

You need a second opinion from a Gas safe registered Engineer who has carried out some on site tests.

The 14 mbar W.P. (Working pressure) is not something I would consider Immediately dangerous but I do not know the reasons he came to that conclusion?

If it was considered to be immediately dangerous, I would expect the Engineer to ask your permission to disconnect it from the gas supply and also issue a warning notice explaining the reason.

 

[Victor555]

You need a second opinion from a Gas safe registered Engineer who has carried out some on site tests.

The 14 mbar W.P. (Working pressure) is not something I would consider Immediately dangerous but I do not know the reasons he came to that conclusion?

If it was considered to be immediately dangerous, I would expect the Engineer to ask your permission to disconnect it from the gas supply and also issue a warning notice explaining the reason.

The notice says " Gas working pressure at P1 on gas valve 14mbar min req, 17mbar.
Details of action taken: Boiler off, gas off. remedial action required: New 22mm gas pipe.
But thr gas is still on, so wanted to know if running at 14mbar is ID?

 

[Riley]

Simple answer it could be ID we don’t know the specifics or the tests run

 

[sammathias]

You need to get a different engineer out. 14mb is low but still within manufacturers tolerance...

 

[Last Plumber]

I wasn't there to witness why it was classified as i.d. I (like anyone else) would need to carry out various tests in order to arrive at a decision. Sorry, I know this is little help and I hope you understand that as registered Engineers, it would not be fair to undermine a decision made by another registered Engineer over the internet, based purely on what you tell us. The Engineer who you dealt with may have had good reason to arrive at the decision he did.

There is a bit of conflicting information though. Above, you mention the 13 mb to 23 mb which comes from the newer manuals. The Engineer has wrote 17 mb required. That information was from older manuals so which one do you have?

 

[Victor555]

I wasn't there to witness why it was classified as i.d. I (like anyone else) would need to carry out various tests in order to arrive at a decision. Sorry, I know this is little help and I hope you understand that as registered Engineers, it would not be fair to undermine a decision made by another registered Engineer over the internet, based purely on what you tell us. The Engineer who you dealt with may have had good reason to arrive at the decision he did.

There is a bit of conflicting information though. Above, you mention the 13 mb to 23 mb which comes from the newer manuals. The Engineer has wrote 17 mb required. That information was from older manuals so which one do you have?

I have the new one. not sure why engineer wrote down min req. 17mbar. maybe he was not aware of new values?

 

[Last Plumber]

I have the new one. not sure why engineer wrote down min req. 17mbar. maybe he was not aware of new values?

Maybe not!
Best thing to do is inquire. He may well have the 17 figure in mind and be unaware that it has been altered recently.
Worth asking in my opinion, it could save an expensive job.

 

[Victor555]

Maybe not!
Best thing to do is inquire. He may well have the 17 figure in mind and be unaware that it has been altered recently.
Worth asking in my opinion, it could save an expensive job.

Agree. I have been in touch will the call centre and they wont send another engineer until I can provide proof/paper work from candent to show that gas meter pressure was checked. Thats going to take another 5days!.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Agree. I have been in touch will the call centre and they wont send another engineer until I can provide proof/paper work from candent to show that gas meter pressure was checked. Thats going to take another 5days!.

Worth doing though mate to be honest.

 

[Last Plumber]

Agree. I have been in touch will the call centre and they wont send another engineer until I can provide proof/paper work from candent to show that gas meter pressure was checked. Thats going to take another 5days!.

If you are without heating and Hot water because of something you think may be their fault, then you could insist on a visit?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Bet he’s tested from the gas valve need to add your resistance eg normally around 2.5 mbar and 1 for your line so total 3.5 mbar

 

[Harvest Fields]

Needs to cut a test point before the gas valve on the gas pipework underneath the boiler

 

[Victor555]

Needs to cut a test point before the gas valve on the gas pipework underneath the boiler

Is this normal for a routine 2nd service? boiler 2 years old?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Is this normal for a routine 2nd service? boiler 2 years old?

Nope. I fit one when installing the boiler. As I once had 14.5 at the valve. Put a test point in before the boiler and had 19 at the boiler.

 

[Victor555]

Nope. I fit one when installing the boiler. As I once had 14.5 at the valve. Put a test point in before the boiler and had 19 at the boiler.

Thanks Very interesting ...

On a side note. When I requested to have the condensate trap cleaned, he put it back without filling with water. When I asked why? As Service manual says to, his reply was no need for this type of boiler, when boiler runs it will fill by it self.

Is he right?

 

[Last Plumber]

Thanks Very interesting .

On a side note. When I requested to have the condensate trap cleaned, he put it back without filling with water. When I asked why? As Service manual says to, his reply was no need for this type of boiler, when boiler runs it will fill by it self.

Is he right?

No. The condensate trap should be filled prior to running the Boiler. If the trap is dry, products of combustion will exit the condensate pipe termination point until the trap has filled.

If all that you say is true, I think you should voice polite concern in writing (email) to the service manager.

 

[Scott_D]

Thanks Very interesting .

On a side note. When I requested to have the condensate trap cleaned, he put it back without filling with water. When I asked why? As Service manual says to, his reply was no need for this type of boiler, when boiler runs it will fill by it self.

Is he right?

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

 

[Harvest Fields]

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

Doubt it. Bet it was all after thoughts.

 

[Victor555]

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

Was watching, but not offering an opinion.

 

[Scott_D]

This thread is full of contradictions

 

[king of pipes]

Valliants are known to loose pressure through the gas valve ask your GSI to install a test point before the gas valve and retest , you should have 21mbar +/- 2mbar at the meter and 20 mbar +/- 2mbar so no lower than 18mbar at this test point on full load . Kop

 

[Harvest Fields]

Valliants are known to loose pressure through the gas valve ask your GSI to install a test point before the gas valve and retest , you should have 21mbar +/- 2mbar at the meter and 20 mbar +/- 2mbar so no lower than 18mbar at this test point on full load . Kop

So what I said😛😛😛

 

[Harvest Fields]

Just busting you b***s mate

 

[king of pipes]

Sorry H didn't see your post mate but great minds bud! I had the same issue on a council contract years back so now fit a test point before the gas valve saves alot of grief . Kop

 

[Old Account]

When he did the annual service did the engineer also open up the burner and brushed through? Has he checked the exp. vessel, flue integrity, has done all the **** ? Seems like he either was lazy and rushed the service or he has not got a clue. As @Last Plumber has mentioned if that all is true you should perhaps write an email.

 

[Victor555]

When he did the annual service did the engineer also open up the burner and brushed through? Has he checked the exp. vessel, flue integrity, has done all the **** ? Seems like he either was lazy and rushed the service or he has not got a clue. As @Last Plumber has mentioned if that all is true you should perhaps write an email.

No, burner was not opened and brushed. exp, vessel was topped up.
**** was done with a print out.
does my gas pipe have a gas test point valve? have attached a photos.

 

[Old Account]

No, burner was not opened and brushed. exp, vessel was topped up.
**** was done with a print out.
does my gas pipe have a gas test point valve? have attached a photos.

View attachment 37941

View attachment 37942

View attachment 37943

View attachment 37944

There is no test point installed as far as I can see. How did he re pressurise the exp.vessel ? Did he drain the boiler ? I do not mean the flue gas analysis I mean **** which are certain things to examine, gas rate, integrity of the flue, supply of combustion air,safety controls, etc...

 

[Victor555]

There is no test point installed as far as I can see. How did he re pressurise the exp.vessel ? Did he drain the boiler ? I do not mean the flue gas analysis I mean **** which are certain things to examine, gas rate, integrity of the flue, supply of combustion air,safety controls, etc...

I am not sure, but this was ticked on the service check list.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Was it Vaillant that Serviced it?

 

[Victor555]

ID

 

[ShaunCorbs]

P1 is the gas valve he hasn’t added his restrictions

14 plus 3.5 of vaillants are 2.5mbar 17.5 working at the gas valve

Low working pressure is not id unless it effects combustion

 

[Last Plumber]

P1 is the Boiler running at Max and he has tested the pressure at the valve. Shaun is right with the drop on a Vaillant in that the pressure will be higher at the appliance inlet than at the valve test nipple. Your Boiler will be three this year and I can't remember when the manual was altered but if you have the one left by the installer and it says 13 mb min, then ask them to come back.

 

[Old Account]

The boiler also has not been cleaned as it should be done annually. He did not open the burner and cleaned and checked the electrodes. I would also say that the gas rate seems dodgy to me meaning I don’t believe he has ever done it. However, I would call them back

 

[Victor555]

Was it Vaillant that Serviced it?

Yes, after a long phone call today, another engineer has been booked for tomorrow.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Yes, after a long phone call today, another engineer has been booked for tomorrow.

I will be surprised if they got it wrong then mate. Don’t be annoyed if they say exactly the same thing.

 

[Scott_D]

The boiler also has not been cleaned as it should be done annually. He did not open the burner and cleaned and checked the electrodes. I would also say that the gas rate seems dodgy to me meaning I don’t believe he has ever done it. However, I would call them back

It’s not required every year

 

[Harvest Fields]

It’s not required every year

You’re supposed to remove and check on annual inspection mate. It is the seal that is not needed every year. I hate to say it but on this occasion I believe he is correct.

 

[sammathias]

4.5mb drop through them gas valves lads. Well that's what vaillant tech once told me

 

[Scott_D]

You’re supposed to remove and check on annual inspection mate. It is the seal that is not needed every year. I hate to say it but on this occasion I believe he is correct.

New seal needed every time the burner is removed?

 

[Harvest Fields]

New seal needed every time the burner is removed?

Only if damaged or worn.

 

[sammathias]

New seal everytime

 

[Harvest Fields]

Not saying it shouldn’t be. Just saying what is in the instructions.

 

[sammathias]

Not saying it shouldn’t be. Just saying what is in the instructions.

In all honesty they don't seem to need to be changed every service but I do for piece of mind. Only £13. Get what your saying tho

 

[Old Account]

It’s not required every year

That’s the reason why boilers last 10-14 years in uk

 

[Old Account]

You’re supposed to remove and check on annual inspection mate. It is the seal that is not needed every year. I hate to say it but on this occasion I believe he is correct.

You don’t need to hate that 🙂

 

[Old Account]

Only if damaged or worn.

I replace every year as required. Once you remove the burner you should be using a new seal as well as the sealant which is supplied. Doesn’t cost much to replace the seal

 

[Victor555]

Was re-checked and passed no ID. pressure 15.5mbar