WRAS question

[Riley]

Please don't let this turn into a thread that it's not meant to be guys. I merely said "religious" because I didn't ask the tenant for a full in depth explanation of why they wanted it fitting. I don't need to know.

Joni os I do agree with your point mate however this is a specific hose to be used over the toilet so the likelihood is that it will end up down the loo or tainted with the unmentionable. :smile: the shower next to the toilet thing is not designed to be used in conjunction with the toilet. Yes accidents happen but when the regs state specifically that the air break is required then I don't see any way round it.

 

[chris watkins]

Same situation as if you have shower over bath with adjacent WC.
In my experience this is often non compliant, especially with combined bath tap shower arrangement, but I refrain from racial abuse even if house owner is English.
Unlike an open ended shower head the apparatus in question is trigger sealed at nozzle, giving an additional safeguard to back syphon.

Yes it is a great shame that some feel the need to descend to the gutter, washing is, I agree, far superior to wiping however just because it is someones tradition to wash with a hose over a WC pan does not exempt them from the Law of the Land.

The inhabitants of this land have had a safe to drink water supply for well over a 150 year & should fight to ensure that it stays that way.

Things should be open to change, you are correct, so long as this does not increase the risk of contamination, unfortunately sticking a trigger valve (or any other mechanical device) on the ends of the the hose does not provide the necessary protection we deem for the risk associated with its use like this.

If you wish to practice Plumbing in this country, whoever you are, you should find out and abide by the Law, it is not your place to decide what can & can't be fitted no matter if it is being sold or it is your long time practice or belief.

There are other ways to achieve the same ends, in the seventies it was all the rage to have a Bidet installed for washing your rear, so long as it is an over the rim type, there is no problem installing & using these still. It just requires a slight change in ones routine (moving to the right or the left) & of cause a bit less room in your bathroom.

 

[joni os]

I share your concern Chris regards contamination of water supply, and nowhere did I suggest the trigger was a substitute for the necessary air gap. Unfortunately many of these bum guns are imported from the far east, to no known British or EU standard. Unless, like toys, trading standards seize them at the port of entry, people will install them.
At some stage, like unvented cylinders, regs will be written, with safeguards, to allow their usage and those of you with most shout should use it to hasten the process.
Meanwhile, I question the methodology of walking away and effectively pass the install to anyone who will tee off a rising main with no check valves and no air gap.

 

[chris watkins]

I share your concern Chris regards contamination of water supply, and nowhere did I suggest the trigger was a substitute for the necessary air gap "Unlike an open ended shower head the apparatus in question is trigger sealed at nozzle, giving an additional safeguard to back syphon", Sorry if I misunderstood. Unfortunately many of these bum guns are imported from the far east, to no known British or EU standard. Unless, like toys, trading standards seize them at the port of entry They are a water fitting & can be put to many uses the importers could legitimately claim they are intended for use only fed from a cistern, people will install them And if they do they break the Law.
At some stage, like unvented cylinders, regs will be written, with safeguards, to allow their usage and those of you with most shout should use it to hasten the process. They already can be installed legally, it is just very costly & impractical.
Meanwhile, I question the methodology of walking away and effectively pass the install to anyone who will tee off a rising main with no check valves and no air gap.

As said above, because they don't want to break the Law but more importantly endanger our water supplies, unlike you who seems willing to put profit before safety or have I got that wrong as well?

Can I humbly suggest that you attend the Water Regulations course if you carry out plumbing work.

 

[joni os]

Did you miss the bit about air gap making it category 3.

 

[Riley]

Look thanks all for this I didn't mean to cause rows.

My only intention from walking away is to show my employer letting agent/landlord that I am not prepared to carry out substandard work not to regulations. I agree that they may well get it done by some idiot prepared to put the water supply at risk. It may also put the landlord off doing it all together. They only insisted on it being done by a professional to avoid leaks. I don't suppose that regs have even come into the equation.

I merely asked on here to see if someone knew the answer, I know that WRAS are an accessible resource so also contacted them. It's one of those jobs that I just don't come across often so rather than blindly attack the job I wanted an objective opinion.

Thanks all

 

[ShaunCorbs]

sorry to bring this back up im jst seen this

hope its not water mains 😀

https://twitter.com/b9ukplumbing/status/573020242798100480/photo/1

and he's a forum sponser 😀

 

[Riley]

Cheers Shaun

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Cheers Shaun

did you sort it out in the end?

 

[chris watkins]

sorry to bring this back up im jst seen this

hope its not water mains 😀
😀

I know I have banged on about this quite enough now so this is my last moan, just to be clear it would not be OK if it wasn't off the mains. Even if the hot & cold to that blending valve were cistern fed but the cistern also served other fitting such as hot & cold taps etc.

The only way it works is if the cistern & hot water system are dedicated & serve only the Category 5 risks.

 

[Riley]

Not been sorted as tenant won't pay for the job. I told them it's installed properly by the book or not at all by me. They'll probably get some cowboy in but at least my conscience will be clear

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I know I have banged on about this quite enough now so this is my last moan, just to be clear it would not be OK if it wasn't off the mains. Even if the hot & cold to that blending valve were cistern fed but the cistern also served other fitting such as hot & cold taps etc.

The only way it works is if the cistern & hot water system are dedicated & serve only the Category 5 risks.

yea i agree

 

[chris watkins]

What yea you agree I have banged on enough or Yea I agree it applies to both cistern fed systems as well as main fed?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

What yea you agree I have banged on enough or Yea I agree it applies to both cistern fed systems as well as main fed?

both 😀 😀