Is this considered acceptable?

[diptin dogshi..]

Hi all,
Recently had a boiler fitted, by an apparently reputable company, a vaillant ecotec plus and was planning on making good once finished but came back and found this..
The spigot left sticking out was from the old filling loop, could that not have been removed along with the old clips and pipework? I could have removed the old tiles from behind the pipework and possibly slid some new tiles in but they left the clips on and the filter in a really awkward spot.
Also I dont think they cleaned out the system/rads either, theyve been on over 20 years, work but I was under the impression that the system must be cleaned properly before installing a new boiler?
Its not like I can even box it in? it just looks horrific to me, is this normal?
Another thing was they were supplied with a towel rail to fit, along with some chrome tube, 2 chrome couplings (pipes exited a newly tiled floor) and they fitted the towel rail 4 inches off the floor on soldered copper elbows into the chrome couplings and when asked why they didnt raise it up and use the chrome (15mm) tube with a couple of slight bends in to meet the new valves, the response was 'cant use that, it wont take the pressure'. Is this right? can you not use 15mm chrome tube anymore?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Rtplumb]

Recently had a boiler fitted, by an apparently reputable company, a vaillant ecotec plus and was planning on making good once finished but came back and found this..
The spigot left sticking out was from the old filling loop, could that not have been removed along with the old clips and pipework? I could have removed the old tiles from behind the pipework and possibly slid some new tiles in but they left the clips on and the filter in a really awkward spot.

First of all, the pipework that I'm looking at in the picture you've taken looks ok to me.

Did you ask the firm to remove any unnecessary pipework BEFORE any work was done?

Did you ask the firm who did the work to flush out the system?

You claim that you will 'do good' any remedial work needed after the fitters have finished? So why didn't you?

As for the towel rail, take it up with the firm that did the work.

Hope this helps.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That little stub would be perfect for a shock arrestor

It’s one of them did you make the installers aware of you wanted the back of the unit removing and all the pipework new and straight into the boiler ?

And the filter fitting below eg in the unit etc

 

[diptin dogshi..]

First of all, the pipework that I'm looking at in the picture you've taken looks ok to me.

I was talking about the dead spigot of pipe sticking out like a sore thumb, but you think thats an acceptable way to leave a job.

Did you ask the firm to remove any unnecessary pipework BEFORE any work was done?

To be honest with you, I didn't think it should have been necessary to ask the fitter to remove the unnecessary, ugly, in the way of any further boxing, 'pipework', especially considering the amount of work it would have taken.

Did you ask the firm who did the work to flush out the system?

So this isn't a requirement by the manufacturer of the boiler, or at the very least a strong recommendation then? In other words, I have to ask for it? regardless of whether it may invalidate any warranty?

You claim that you will 'do good' any remedial work needed after the fitters have finished? So why didn't you?

Not sure what you mean by that, I was planning on boxing in the pipework until I saw this mess. Do you have any suggestions as how to get round it and make it look good?

As for the towel rail, take it up with the firm that did the work.

the response was 'cant use that, it wont take the pressure'

I have taken it up with them....

Hope this helps.

Actually, it does, in a small way. It goes a long way to describing the state of the industry. If you honestly believe that is in any way a quality job, or even approaching a quality job, with the added lies of 'it wont take the pressure' after being clearly asked to use chrome tube for the radiator, and something else I forgot to mention was the excuse the fitter gave my mother regarding the ugly spigot of pipework - 'you can put a dishwasher on that', then the 'boiler fitting trade' or whatever you call yourselves these days - gas engineers? Has truly become a cesspit of rogue traders.

A question for you, @Rtplumb, would you have left that like that if it was your house? or your mother? or is it only customers that get that kind of service?

 

[diptin dogshi..]

That little stub would be perfect for a shock arrestor

It’s one of them did you make the installers aware of you wanted the back of the unit removing and all the pipework new and straight into the boiler ?

And the filter fitting below eg in the unit etc

Not sure what you mean about removing the back of the unit?
The filter, I feel could have been better positioned, but its not what immediately stopped me from trying to make good, its the ridiculous spigot, left sticking out that just needed the t removing, again, do you think I should have had to ask? Rather than assume the fitter would automatically remove it if for nothing more than aesthetics?

The shock arrestor quip... that was a joke? or are you actually serious?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Not sure what you mean about removing the back of the unit?
The filter, I feel could have been better positioned, but its not what immediately stopped me from trying to make good, its the ridiculous spigot, left sticking out that just needed the t removing, again, do you think I should have had to ask? Rather than assume the fitter would automatically remove it if for nothing more than aesthetics?

The shock arrestor quip... that was a joke? or are you actually serious?

So they could get at the pipes

Can I ask where did you want the filter ?

Google shock arrestor should have one of them fitted especially with modern ceramic cartridges

 

[diptin dogshi..]

That little stub would be perfect for a shock arrestor

It’s one of them did you make the installers aware of you wanted the back of the unit removing and all the pipework new and straight into the boiler ?

And the filter fitting below eg in the unit etc

Not sure what you mean about removing the back of the unit?
The filter, I feel could have been better positioned, but its not what immediately stopped me from trying to make good, its the ridiculous spigot, left sticking out that just needed the t removing, again, do you think I should have had to ask? Rather than assume the fitter would automatically remove it if for nothing more than aesthetics?

The shock arrestor quip... that was a joke? or are you actually serious?

So they could get at the pipes

Can I ask where did you want the filter ?

Google shock arrestor should have one of them fitted especially with modern ceramic cartridges

There is a washing machine underneath the boiler, free standing, and the pipework that needed removing is clearly visible and easily accessible?
The filter could have been placed to the side of the boiler, or higher up perhaps, another 4 or 5 inches wouldn't have made any difference to servicing access or perhaps there is another solution unbeknown to us non heating engineers that could have been recommended?
I know what a shock arrestor is, and if needed could have been easily fitted underneath the worktop, behind the washing machine, but seeing as there is no evidence of water hammer, even when the washing machine valve violently closes, is it something they should have done? What does that have to do with installing a boiler? Should they have asked if I wanted one fitted? Not being a gas safe registered heating engineer myself obviously. Do you think that spigot, which protrudes over the draining board, would be an ideal place for a shock arrestor?
I personally prefer to trust that someone from a supposedly reputable company would consider things like aesthetics, especially in a kitchen where access and space is at a premium. Its not like its in the garage, and it looks like it was fitted in a garage to me.
Do you have any suggestions as to how to make that mess look good?

 

[Rtplumb]

Hi diptin,

First of all I haven't seen any pictures of the boiler before works were carried out to be able to compare or guess why that copper pipe off shoot was left like that, only the finished work.

I was talking about the dead spigot of pipe sticking out like a sore thumb, but you think thats an acceptable way to leave a job.

It's been over twenty years since I last fitted a wall hung boiler, but I (personally) would have cut out the offending bit of pipe and coupled up from there.

To be honest with you, I didn't think it should have been necessary to ask the fitter to remove the unnecessary, ugly, in the way of any further boxing, 'pipework', especially considering the amount of work it would have taken.

| understand your feelings on this pipe work, it does have you triggered. In general terms the pipework isn't bad. Did you tell the fitter that you were boxing it all in when the work was complete? If you did, I can see why it was left.

So this isn't a requirement by the manufacturer of the boiler, or at the very least a strong recommendation then? In other words, I have to ask for it? regardless of whether it may invalidate any warranty?

I've not seen the installation notes for fitting your boiler. In general heating systems (as far as I know and witnessed many times) are not flushed out when a new boiler is fitted. The cost of hiring the equipment and time to flush out a system (depending on size) can take a long time and cost a small fortune. If you require a flush out call a heating firm and get a quote.

Not sure what you mean by that, I was planning on boxing in the pipework until I saw this mess. Do you have any suggestions as how to get round it and make it look good?

You should just box it in. You could also try to get the fitter to come back, drain the system, cut out that bit of pipe, make good, refill the system, then test. If you choose the latter option let me know how you got on.

Actually, it does, in a small way. It goes a long way to describing the state of the industry. If you honestly believe that is in any way a quality job, or even approaching a quality job, with the added lies of 'it wont take the pressure' after being clearly asked to use chrome tube for the radiator, and something else I forgot to mention was the excuse the fitter gave my mother regarding the ugly spigot of pipework - 'you can put a dishwasher on that', then the 'boiler fitting trade' or whatever you call yourselves these days - gas engineers? Has truly become a cesspit of rogue traders.

A question for you, @Rtplumb, would you have left that like that if it was your house? or your mother? or is it only customers that get that kind of service?

I'm glad I helped, even in a small way. I didn't say it was a quality job just ok. You do have a point about the state of the industry these days. I have been plumbing and heating for over fifty years and since the apprentice training stop it's been going down hill.

Before I retired I was working in social housing. You need to be insane to work in that theatre of plumbing. Anyway, the heating fitters that worked for the same company considered themselves the cream of the crop. Arrogant people and very lazy. I know there are excellent heating fitters out there, I was one myself for many years, but today they go on a course, shadow a fitter who has experience (as for quality, who knows) and then let loose on the general public. I had a lad who did a level two and three plumbing course at college, he'd worked with other plumbers for a while (just over a year) and ended up working with me. He was told to shadow me for two weeks then off on his own into the world of social housing. He didn't know how to replace a tap washer, do internal drainage, replace heating components, unvented systems, nothing. He would have to shadow someone for two years never mind two weeks.

Your question. No, I would have removed the offending pipe in anyone's home and boxed it all in after, but that's me and I didn't do your job.

To sum up, just box it in.

diptin dogshi.. ... Pleasant forum name.

 

[diptin dogshi..]

Well the gaffer came out to have a look, agreed he shouldnt have left the pipe sticking out like that and is organising someone to come back and rectify so I can actually box it in.

However, he had been out on the day, collected payment from my mother, seen the job piped up and said absolutely nothing at the time which leads me to believe if I hadnt said anything they thought that was perfectly acceptable. I also pulled him about why they didnt use the chrome tube, having been supplied with it, and specifically asked, and the reply was 'i think thats ok, and anyway it was a freebie' which it wasnt. When they came to quote the job, they were shown the rad, and asked to fit it when the system was drained down, and then I got the quote. So how is that a freebie?
I also asked if the filter could be lifted slightly, whilst still giving access to the valves for servicing and the response to that was 'vaillant specify that you cannot cut the boiler tails because the thermistors in the boiler wont work properly if the filter is too close to the boiler', trying to blind me with technobabble, but having reflected for a few minutes and seen the state of my posture, reconsidered and agreed they could lift it a few inches provide I leave access to the isolator by making any boxing removable, which is what I intended anyway..
His response to the copper elbows and the rad being 3" off the floor - Well I dont like to see them any higher, you cand get tight bends on pipework they have to be elbows, I think thats fine..
I dont care whether he thinks thats fine, when Ive asked for it too be done in chrome and supplied the chrome...
Personally I would have jacked the rad up 8" or more, put a couple of swan neck style bends in the chrome tube and that would have, imo, looked a million times better, but Im not a 'gas safe registered engineer'... so what do I know..
We shall see, when they come back next week to rectify, if the arrogant attitude has changed at all...