Must you be Gas Safe Registered to do Gas installation? Read HSE's response.

[Reg Man]

Benchmark is not a legal requirement but to register the boiler with the authorities is. How is this possible with no Gas Safe Registration number! How would you report a RIDDOR if and when needed to!

You go directly to your local authority and register the work for building regulations. Your not going to be RIDDOR reporting something in your own house and because its a competent gas fitter doing his own gas work he has no requirement because its not at his place of work.

 

[Reza]

You go directly to your local authority and register the work for building regulations. Your not going to be RIDDOR reporting something in your own house and because its a competent gas fitter doing his own gas work he has no requirement because its not at his place of work.

But this is not just limited to own. It also applies to friends and family and let's face it, everyone could be classed as friends. So far you've stated that commissioning record is not a legal requirement and that you don't have to report dangerous Gas occurrence for own. I am interested to know how you'd handle this situation! Suppose you fit a boiler in a "mate's" house then you discover signs of spillage in the front room against which you'd have to ID the appliance. How would you go about doing this process without having the one ref that ties everything together, i.e your Gas Safe Registration number!

 

[Reg Man]

But this is not just limited to own. It also applies to friends and family and let's face it, everyone could be classed as friends. So far you've stated that commissioning record is not a legal requirement and that you don't have to report dangerous Gas occurrence for own. I am interested to know how you'd handle this situation! Suppose you fit a boiler in a "mate's" house then you discover signs of spillage in the front room against which you'd have to ID the appliance. How would you go about doing this process without having the one ref that ties everything together, i.e your Gas Safe Registration number!

Your not at work so RIDDOR don't apply. Your only at work when employed or self employed. Thiis is a DIY job carried out by a competent person.

 

[Reza]

Wow, the nation will be safe in your hands won't they!!!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Your not at work so RIDDOR don't apply. Your only at work when employed or self employed. Thiis is a DIY job carried out by a competent person.

such a thing does not exist !!! not in my training centre when i did my acs ! every person that does gas must be competent
and then competent person is the one that has done acs and is gsr only , if person is gsr under company he/she then does not have the right to do any other gas work does not matter who for if its not work that the business is employed to do

 

[SafeGasInstall]

But this is not just limited to own. It also applies to friends and family and let's face it, everyone could be classed as friends. So far you've stated that commissioning record is not a legal requirement and that you don't have to report dangerous Gas occurrence for own. I am interested to know how you'd handle this situation! Suppose you fit a boiler in a "mate's" house then you discover signs of spillage in the front room against which you'd have to ID the appliance. How would you go about doing this process without having the one ref that ties everything together, i.e your Gas Safe Registration number!

this is not recognised situation as work for a friend without gain payment ! payment or not payment you were the last man there therefore if you have been employed to do work on that appliance even safety check then its your responsibility if your mates family die , dont matter who has fitted it

 

[Reza]

this is not recognised situation as work for a friend without gain payment ! payment or not payment you were the last man there therefore if you have been employed to do work on that appliance even safety check then its your responsibility if your mates family die , dont matter who has fitted it

It seems that some people are perfectly happy to do work at mate's house and when they come across a dangerous situation, to avoid following procedure as it's a mate house so it wouldn't matter. No sir, the better way to conduct as a professional is to obtain a consent from the employer, then apply for registration and pay your dues like ever other earner. That way, when there is an accident or a case of negligence, they too can be traced and be prepared to stand and dance like the rest of us have to.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

sure everyone will do the walk to the prison no matter has he been paid for or not , should a fatality happen !

 

[Masood]

such a thing does not exist !!! not in my training centre when i did my acs ! every person that does gas must be competent
and then competent person is the one that has done acs and is gsr only

Sorry Stan, but you've been told wrong. If you read the current ACOPS document (L56), the definition of competency has no requirement for formal training, nor registration. This is not a good thing, but it most definitely does exist. The revisions in the consultation documents go some way towards tightening this up, but still don't list ACS or GSR as mandatory requirements.

 

[Reza]

Sorry Stan, but you've been told wrong. If you read the current ACOPS document (L56), the definition of competency has no requirement for formal training, nor registration. This is not a good thing, but it most definitely does exist. The revisions in the consultation documents go some way towards tightening this up, but still don't list ACS or GSR as mandatory requirements.

The definition of competency is given in COP20 not the L56. Secondly the initial and revised version both are flawed no matter how they present the point across. Registering with Gas Safe Register must be the only way to work with Gas as an engineer. It only cost a minimal amount to register as a second employment anyway, those who don't and give the excuse of the regulation, have something to hide.

 

[Masood]

The definition of competency is given in COP20 not the L56.

So it is. And so what? That doesn't change the fact that competency is not currently defined as having passed ACS and being GSR. No amount of wishing or insisting will make that so. That definition does not exist at present.

Secondly the initial and revised version both are flawed no matter how they present the point across. Registering with Gas Safe Register must be the only way to work with Gas as an engineer.

Not many would disagree with you that the definitions are flawed.

those who don't and give the excuse of the regulation, have something to hide.

Maybe, maybe not.

People have different reasons for doing DIY work. Not all do it for money, some do it for the satisfaction. When all's said and done, gas safety to the level required by GSR is really not rocket science. I know GSRs who are thick as p*gs&^t but are good at what they do because they learnt by repetition. They have no understanding of why they
are doing it a certain way, they just do it out of habit. And there are engineers who have never taken an ACS assessment, who know more than you and I will ever learn about gas. They are the people who write the regulations. Who is to say they couldn't safely fit a boiler?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

So it is. And so what? That doesn't change the fact that competency is not currently defined as having passed ACS and being GSR. No amount of wishing or insisting will make that so. That definition does not exist at present.



Not many would disagree with you that the definitions are flawed.



Maybe, maybe not.

People have different reasons for doing DIY work. Not all do it for money, some do it for the satisfaction. When all's said and done, gas safety to the level required by GSR is really not rocket science. I know GSRs who are thick as p*gs&^t but are good at what they do because they learnt by repetition. They have no understanding of why they
are doing it a certain way, they just do it out of habit. And there are engineers who have never taken an ACS assessment, who know more than you and I will ever learn about gas. They are the people who write the regulations. Who is to say they couldn't safely fit a boiler?

in his/her van

 

[Reza]

Mate, we really need to stop playing with words. You can interporate competency whichever way you like, but let me ask you this, is being GSRed being competent! I think you find the answer is yes. Second question, What's one level below being GSRed qualified? I think you find the answer is being ACS qualified. If ACS does not qualify for competency in your book then you must have worked to some other requirements and standards. As far as I know, when you are in reciept of your ACS, few hundred quid later, and you are Gas Safe Registered.

 

[Reza]

Mate I have 2:1 and an MSc in electronic engineering, still, I wouldn't be so fast as to dismissing NVQ 2/3 qualified guys as being thick as PS! Working with Gas requires confidance and consentration. You must also be able to be methodical and number crunch arithmetic equations. Sorry but it seems on that front we don't think alike either!

 

[Reza]

Let me get this absolutely and 100% right Masood. You are saying that it is fine for competant people to work with Gas installation, even though they have no records as being Gas Safe Registered, despite the issues that this may bring along, issues which I have thus far described, i.e. commissioining record, RIDDOR, Unsafe Procedure, not to mention rogue operation with their financial affairs, i.e. contributions and so on and so forth! Is that what your argument is!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

i think we should all have a drink and let it be

 

[Nostrum]

Let me get this absolutely and 100% right Masood. You are saying that it is fine for competant people to work with Gas installation, even though they have no records as being Gas Safe Registered, despite the issues that this may bring along, issues which I have thus far described, i.e. commissioining record, RIDDOR, Unsafe Procedure, not to mention rogue operation with their financial affairs, i.e. contributions and so on and so forth! Is that what your argument is!

sorry, I'm with masood on this one. Whether you like it or not, the regulations currently in force do not define competence in any great detail. Competent persons schemes such as gas safe are in place to allow tradesemen to self certify that the work they have carried out is in compliance with the current building regulations. This is the same for electrical, oil, solid fuel, double glazed windows etc etc the only difference with gas is that the gsiur regulations specify that anyone trading in the gas industry must be registered with the appropriate bodies, gas safe.

There is nothing to stop you fitting your own consumer unit and getting the local building authority to inspect the installation and register it, and that's exactly the same with gas, and the rest of them.

The only way to change this is to get the gsiur regulations altered. Regulations are law, anything else is guidance, best practice, british standard or similar.

 

[Derek Hardman]

If you work on a friends boiler, and you are GSR, they find out and you are going to find yourself on the end of a 'working out of the scope of your card', this, in court, would be the same as doing commercial catering without having your catering ticket, the penalty could possibly be prison. This is what I was told by GSR.

 

[Reza]

The only way to change this is to get the gsiur regulations altered.

I agree with that.

 

[Reza]

i think we should all have a drink and let it be

I hope you don't mind, but I already did, cheers. lol