R
Ray Stafford
In lots of towns we struggle to recruit at those rates, particularly in Surrey, Sussex and sarf London.
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
- Thread starter cr0ft
- Start date
In lots of towns we struggle to recruit at those rates, particularly in Surrey, Sussex and sarf London.
Yeah I can imagine it would be a struggle in and around London and the home counties to be honest.
Spent last night badgering my best mate to apply for a new job, he started on 230 a week.
5 years later hes on 250.
hes going nowhere
Shame as hes a smart lad too!
T
tamz
If he is 21 it is illegal for for you to pay him £2.80/hr no matter what you call his job title.
Flat out wrong mate, sorry. The college advised me this rate was legal for year 1 apprentices. HMRC website also lists this rate for year 1 apprentices irrespective of age.
T
tamz
Absolutely not wrong and i don't care what some college advised you.
Even burger king take on so called apprentices straight from school on more than that.
If he has any sense he will be off the first chance he gets.
Promises of what may or may not materialise in the future don't feed the kids or pay the bills.
Just shows how far this trade has fallen.
Even burger king take on so called apprentices straight from school on more than that.
If he has any sense he will be off the first chance he gets.
Promises of what may or may not materialise in the future don't feed the kids or pay the bills.
Just shows how far this trade has fallen.
R
Ray Stafford
Sorry Tamz, Croft is correct in his first year of apprenticeship. Not in 2nd or following years.
Here is the quote from .gov.uk
My emphasis added.
Might be different in scotland.
Here is the quote from .gov.uk
My emphasis added.
Might be different in scotland.
HM Revenue & Customs: The national minimum wage
Tamz, whilst we may have our different opinions on the worth of year 1 apprentices, you have overstepped the mark by implying my business is employing someone illegally. If you are going to imply this against someone I would suggest it's prudent to read the relevant regulations first.
Tamz, whilst we may have our different opinions on the worth of year 1 apprentices, you have overstepped the mark by implying my business is employing someone illegally. If you are going to imply this against someone I would suggest it's prudent to read the relevant regulations first.
T
tamz
Apparently i am mistaken and you are acting within the letter of the law. I apologise if i offended you.
How you run your business is up to you.
T
tamz
Difficult one this. Adds to the many reasons why i dont have an apprentice.
A spotty 16 year old then i would have no qualms about paying as little as i could get away with.
A 21 year old with a kid who has served in the armed forces? Hmmmm.
It brings in legal and moral connatations. Its business after all. But!
I will stay on the fence on this one.
A spotty 16 year old then i would have no qualms about paying as little as i could get away with.
A 21 year old with a kid who has served in the armed forces? Hmmmm.
It brings in legal and moral connatations. Its business after all. But!
I will stay on the fence on this one.
I might just slip off the fence here, but......
The world is full of half wits who cant get there nose out of a mobile phone and it seems rare to be able to get hold of a grafter that wants to get on.
Would anybody want to loose that for a few quid an hour?
Damn. I was determined to stay on the fence. Must be the beer.
The world is full of half wits who cant get there nose out of a mobile phone and it seems rare to be able to get hold of a grafter that wants to get on.
Would anybody want to loose that for a few quid an hour?
Damn. I was determined to stay on the fence. Must be the beer.
R
Ray Stafford
I would take a different view of this.
Firstly, there are lots of moral and social aspects of being an employer, but the lifechoices of your employees form no part of them. Whether the employee has a kid has no impact on what value he/she brings to the organisation.
Employee: "Hey boss, I need a payrise"
Boss: "Why is that?"
Employee: "Because my missus is expecting"
Boss: "I never touched her..."
In terms of age, we have a simple policy. If someone is doing a man's job, then he deserves a man's wage, and we have had 17yr olds on full adult money. If he's making a fair effort, but we are having to make allowances for youth ("he's only a kid...") then its fair to pay less money. People mature at very different rates.
There is absolutely no doubt that most employees are more trouble and expense than they are worth on day 1. At some point they pass from being a liability to being an asset. Where that point comes depends on the attitude, skills and experience of the employee, the nature of the job, and the training investment made by the employer. In the case of apprentices, that timescale can be months or even years.
If its fair to ask an employer to take a long term view, and make an investment, why is it wrong to ask an employee to do the same thing? No one held a gun to Keiran's employees head.
I think the only obligation on Keiran is to obey the law and honour his promises about the future.
We have made a business decision to set our entry level pay at around £1 per hour more than NMW. But that isn't a moral decision - its a business decision, because we don't want to be recruiting at the bottom of the pool.
The moral decisions come later, after the employee has been with you for a while.
Firstly, there are lots of moral and social aspects of being an employer, but the lifechoices of your employees form no part of them. Whether the employee has a kid has no impact on what value he/she brings to the organisation.
Employee: "Hey boss, I need a payrise"
Boss: "Why is that?"
Employee: "Because my missus is expecting"
Boss: "I never touched her..."
In terms of age, we have a simple policy. If someone is doing a man's job, then he deserves a man's wage, and we have had 17yr olds on full adult money. If he's making a fair effort, but we are having to make allowances for youth ("he's only a kid...") then its fair to pay less money. People mature at very different rates.
There is absolutely no doubt that most employees are more trouble and expense than they are worth on day 1. At some point they pass from being a liability to being an asset. Where that point comes depends on the attitude, skills and experience of the employee, the nature of the job, and the training investment made by the employer. In the case of apprentices, that timescale can be months or even years.
If its fair to ask an employer to take a long term view, and make an investment, why is it wrong to ask an employee to do the same thing? No one held a gun to Keiran's employees head.
I think the only obligation on Keiran is to obey the law and honour his promises about the future.
We have made a business decision to set our entry level pay at around £1 per hour more than NMW. But that isn't a moral decision - its a business decision, because we don't want to be recruiting at the bottom of the pool.
The moral decisions come later, after the employee has been with you for a while.
I think it depends on the individual. I took the decision to move from site work to house bashing at the end of the second year of my apprenticeship. I still had two years to go of my apprenticeship but realised site work wasn't for me. I had a few job offers but took the one with a one man band. This was the lowest pay on offer, but I thought in the long term it would benefit me the most. I am happy with the decision I made as I learnt a lot. If the apprentice is happy to take the money and learn from a good guy then everyone is happy.
Honesty and integrity ....brave man to hold up his hands when admitting he may be wrong.Croft must do what he deems to be right and fair as he who pays the piper calls the tune......mucho mutual respecto to you both regards Turnpin
K
Koogatubac
Right what erm says, dont pay them well and they will steal to make their wage up, even taking few fittings a day soon fills a bucket up! Also taking bit of scrap adds up whereas if you pay them decent they will hand it in
R
Ray Stafford
Over the years I have caught plenty of theives. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between pay levels and stealing - in fact if anything its our higher paid employees that are more likely to steal (although that may be because they have more opportunity).
A thief is a thief. Give him a £million and he will still be a theif.
Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk
Similar plumbing topics
- Question
- Question
- Question
We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.
