Are benders just benders?

[OffshoreGas]

It depends, British Gas and many others provide them. A recent death of an apprentice electrician at Western Power was the result of using his own hand tools and the HSE concluded that the employer must provide hand tools.

So if you employ then it's down to your risk assessment. If your employee is injured from using a hand tool then you could find yourself liable.

Employing people is a liability nightmare these days. No matter what eventuality you think of some have a way of finding creative ways of f-ing things up

 

[king of pipes]

Did you see the news today ! no more gas boiler fitted by 2020 I would be thinking get your new guys trained in alternative forms of heating and push part of your company that way by being a accredited installer MCI and what ever else is needed , heating is gonna change dramatically in the next 5 years get ahead now take your company well part of it down the new road and get ahead of the rest , as for tools any decent engineer will have his hand tool kit , supply good quality battery gear ( Metabo ) and hilmour benders if you do go that way . Kop

 

[OffshoreGas]

Did you see the news today ! no more gas boiler fitted by 2020 I would be thinking get your new guys trained in alternative forms of heating and push part of your company that way by being a accredited installer MCI and what ever else is needed , heating is gonna change dramatically in the next 5 years get ahead now take your company well part of it down the new road and get ahead of the rest , as for tools any decent engineer will have his hand tool kit , supply good quality battery gear ( Metabo ) and hilmour benders if you do go that way . Kop

I agree diversity is key to a business and it would be foolish not to prepare for these changes but it can also be dangerous to follow the latest fad. If they ban new installs after 2025 (the 2020 date has been confined to be wrong) as the proposal suggests 85% of heating is still from natural gas. You’ve got a massive install base that’s still going to require repair. They’ve been saying for 15-20 years every home must have a source of green energy but that’s never happened either.

I agree it will come but as it’s going to take 20 years to build the generating capacity for all these battery powered cars etc I think it’s a while off yet.

Just the usual daily mail scaremongering.

 

[Jim09876]

Metabo

Supply Milwaukee, at least start out them guys out on the correct path.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Metabo

Supply Milwaukee, at least start out them guys out on the correct path.

I don’t think you can go far wrong with Metabo for drilling/grinding machines. Some of there other tools are fairly woeful.

For 18v stuff I’ve gone down the Makita route as that’s what we use elsewhere, they make a reasonable tool of each type and are generally good value for money.

 

[Stigster]

Had them 8 years always bent fine, never rippled.

Good that you don't get rippling with those but for those that do I have a solution when mine have done that.

I apply a tiny amount of light oil with a rag to both the former and the guide. I believe that rippling occurs when the finished surface of these parts get roughed up a bit over time through normal use, not so much that you can see it but it's there. I think rippling occurs as the pipe repeatedly sticks or grabs then lets go as the pipe is being formed, leaving the ripples in the pipe.

The oil allows the pipe to slip more easily as it is bent around the formers. It's an easy fix and you don't have to reapply more oil for a good few weeks, depending upon how much you use the tool of course.

 

[OffshoreGas]

@Jim09876 which bit don’t you agree with?

Each to their own obviously, you’ll find a lot of fabrication companies use Metabo grinders/drills because they can take a lot of abuse.

I’ve not owned anything from Milwaukee for years after I found the parts/service people to be horrific. I can’t imagine this has improved since being bought over by TTI (the same company that make Ryobi). I’m sure others have had bad experience with Metabo.

Makita are one of the few tool companies that aren’t owned by vampire like venture capitalist firms that just bleed once reputable brands dry. More often than not you’ll find hire shops supplying Makita tools which says a lot.

 

[Jim09876]

@Jim09876 which bit don’t you agree with?

Each to their own obviously, you’ll find a lot of fabrication companies use Metabo grinders/drills because they can take a lot of abuse.

I’ve not owned anything from Milwaukee for years after I found the parts/service people to be horrific. I can’t imagine this has improved since being bought over by TTI (the same company that make Ryobi). I’m sure others have had bad experience with Metabo.

Makita are one of the few tool companies that aren’t owned by vampire like venture capitalist firms that just bleed once reputable brands dry. More often than not you’ll find hire shops supplying Makita tools which says a lot.

Just own a Milwaukee at the moment, that’s all! Had all the brands mentioned...all preformed satisfactory to be honest. I never considered the ethical stand point though, just bought it outside Screwfix of the rep.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Just own a Milwaukee at the moment, that’s all! Had all the brands mentioned...all preformed satisfactory to be honest. I never considered the ethical stand point though, just bought it outside Screwfix of the rep.

Can’t really comment on the ethics but the business model of the firms that buy tool companies is to make them as cheaply as possible to extract as much profit as possible whilst taking advantage of the reputation of a once great brand. 10 years later the brand is ruined but the share holders are happy. Once they get bought out quality and service seems to go down the pan pretty quickly.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Good that you don't get rippling with those but for those that do I have a solution when mine have done that.

I apply a tiny amount of light oil with a rag to both the former and the guide. I believe that rippling occurs when the finished surface of these parts get roughed up a bit over time through normal use, not so much that you can see it but it's there. I think rippling occurs as the pipe repeatedly sticks or grabs then lets go as the pipe is being formed, leaving the ripples in the pipe.

The oil allows the pipe to slip more easily as it is bent around the formers. It's an easy fix and you don't have to reapply more oil for a good few weeks, depending upon how much you use the tool of course.

Sometimes it’s just the tube had a length that would ripple anything past 45 degrees turns out it was hard in spots

 

[Stigster]

Sometimes it’s just the tube had a length that would ripple anything past 45 degrees turns out it was hard in spots

I agree it can definitely be the fault of the pipe. My solution works when the benders are rippling every piece of pipe put in them. As I work in the workshop with students I've got 10 sets of them and occasionally one of them will start rippling every bend so that's what I do to stop that happening.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Pipe wall thickness probably doesn’t help, when you come across the old stuff it’s normally twice as thick as the stuff you buy these days.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I agree it can definitely be the fault of the pipe. My solution works when the benders are rippling every piece of pipe put in them. As I work in the workshop with students I've got 10 sets of them and occasionally one of them will start rippling every bend so that's what I do to stop that happening.

Normally do a test piece and spray with wd40

 

[Stigster]

Normally do a test piece and spray with wd40

That's good advice, do a test piece and keep the thing lubed. I like it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That's good advice, do a test piece and keep the thing lubed. I like it.

Then you at least know what’s at fault and if the benders need some love with the 3 in 1 and some steel wool

 

[Stigster]

I have actually known people to throw out their benders when rippling and not even tried to remedy it with a bit of oil, or a clean as you say. Hopefully our posts will help someone out if they were considering chucking away their benders with this problem.

 

[WC1]

Metabo bought out by Hitachi / Hikoki in 2016 and I've had rubbish off them since - suspect they will be hollowed out over next few years 🙁

 

[Sharp Point]

Did you see the news today ! no more gas boiler fitted by 2020 I would be thinking get your new guys trained in alternative forms of heating and push part of your company that way by being a accredited installer MCI and what ever else is needed , heating is gonna change dramatically in the next 5 years get ahead now take your company well part of it down the new road and get ahead of the rest

Guess I better acquire some refrigeration tools and equipment ....again!

Ffs

 

[Burger]

I have a set of Hilmor which haven’t been the best, one arm was bending slightly rubbing on formers. I have used someone else’s Monument - these seem decent and can get them at a decent price shopping around.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Just received 4 sets of Hilmar benders, nicely made bits of kit that bend without ripples etc. They don’t have any angle marks on the formers/shoe and nothing to align your measurements with. Is that normal for copper? I’m used to more like this: