Customer not paying small amount but it's the principle!!!

[mylocalplumber]

Girl calls me up. Her salon toilet is blocked..she's desperate..needs someone right away. She's nearby so I say ok. She asks my rates..I tell her £60p/h and give her my website with all my terms and rates.

get there and it's a mess..tricky and dirty. She asks can I give a price and I explain I can't coz I don't have X-ray vision but if it takes longer than an hour I'll let her know.

45 mins later I tell her I got to take the toilet off the wall. She says I don't care it needs to be done.

1.5 hrs later I'm done, cleaned up. She's not around but I discussed that I'd email the invoice.

£120 all in. This is in London btw.

She gets back to me via email calling me a cowboy and refusing to pay. Tells me it's nonsense I could not give her a price. That her boyfriend could have done it. That my rates are too high. That I never told her my rates and finally that she only had a budget of £80 which she said nothing about all while I'm still cleaning the turd off my tools.

so it's no biggie is it? £40 but I'm just so livid. She's ignoring me to even discuss on phone saying how she would advise her clients against me-I mean I'm not sure if she's trying it on or she really believes that I'm a rip off!

Her salon is a new business but I have not had a non payer for over 2 years and feel as though I should not just take it up the wrongen when I've done a good and tbh cheap job.

what would you do?..I know you should just take the knock but If she had not try and sully my name I would be a lot different. Hinting that she'd advise her clients against me? Wtf

remember she's not unhappy with the workmanship.

 

[dangreen]

Hair or nail salon? I'd tell all the women you know to go there, refuse to pay and then say their boyfriend could have done it haha.

 

[oz-plumber]

Just tell her you will reciprocate.

What is she going to do ...start every conversation with a client telling them you charged too much for unblocking her toilet.

Also, tell her you will tell everyone you know not to use her and you will do everything possible you can to make sure her doors are shut within 6 months.

Just to upset her more - lodge a claim against her in the small claims court.

It may cost your more than you lost, but you cleaned up her and her clients 'mess'

Or better still - just turn up and demand your money when she has a salon full of clients.

 

[Fallon1982]

I work on a fixed price basis for blockages. Some take 30 seconds to plunge clear, others a bit longer like you have described. But lets be fair most blocked bogs can be shifted pretty quick.
Then if you hit a bugger of a job, yeah you miss out a bit, but what you made on the easier jobs covers it.
One thing I learnt from my area is customers want to know how much a job is going to cost from the start. They don't like unexpected bills with additional time on top of what they thought it was going to be.
All this said, it don't make it easier when someone just knocks you like she has. Why don't you post the contents of the blockage through her letterbox? lol

 

[Ray Stafford]

Keep it professional. Small claims court. Dont be blackmailed, but dont let it go.

Consider it an action taken on behalf of the unofficial union of self-employed and small businesses. It may not benefit you, but it will benefit some other poor sod down the track if you can convince here that this is not the right way to behave to service providers.

 

[REDSAW]

get down there and confront when full of customers.
take what you can even if its £80.

send the other half down there if not settled and tell her to ram toilet full of sanitary towels and a bag of quick set.

sorted 😉

 

[plumben]

I'd see what money you can get then as said get someone to ram a bag of rapid set drain cement down there pan

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

problem is, if you just take what money you are offered then it paves the way for the next poor sod who walks in, and snowball effect means she tells her BFF (in with the lingo 😉 ) how she did it and they do the same. Produce an invoice for the full amount, take the cash she offers and produce an invoice for the remaining amount and politely advise her that you will have no hesitation to use the small claims court for the remaining amount. its tempting to kick off in a room full of customers but its best to be remain a professional especially when the cowboy term has been thrown about by her.

 

[SimonG]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/20/contents

Its a commercial debt as well.

 

[joni os]

My understanding is that small claim is for debt between £50 and £10,000.00. If you accept the £80.00 you cannot use small claims for balance. The commercial decision is to take the £80.00 and use your time more productively.
That is not to say other means of recovery shouldn't be used.

 

[wattsie1987]

My favourite is boundary stopcock switch off and a tub of post mix down there. Won't get your money back but that'll shut the shop for at least a day!

 

[Dotty]

Do not, under any circumstances, damage their property. This includes postcrete in the toby, quick setting down the pan or anything to do with expanding foam.

The owner, admin and mods do not condone this behaviour and is specifically not recommended by UKPF.

Take the legal route, always.

 

[Rickster123]

Do not, under any circumstances, damage their property. This includes postcrete in the toby, quick setting down the pan or anything to do with expanding foam.

The owner, admin and mods do not condone this behaviour and is specifically not recommended by UKPF.

Take the legal route, always.

Wink wink nudge nudge...

 

[Dotty]

Should warn you all.

I'm currently having a sense of humour failure on this matter.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Legal route imho

Been here few times although never been to court however once you start squeezing with moody emails and threat of court proceedings most crack.

What i would do tho is do numerous online reviews of her business from disgruntled customers .

 

[joni os]

Do like croppie says. Use the head and not the heart.
Recently won £6000.00 without going to court because at review judge ruled defence had no chance of success in law.
Need to send letter before action setting out amount claimed and if not paid in 28 days recovery proceedings will proceed without further notice.

 

[Fallon1982]

Or just swallow it as a loss and never work for her again. Move on to honest and paying customers. Thankfully there are more paying customers than non paying.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Or just swallow it as a loss and never work for her again. Move on to honest and paying customers. Thankfully there are more paying customers than non paying.

Principle way to many small businesses think like that .

 

[Best]

Two hours chargeable for trying to clear a toilet and then having to remove the loo and clear blockage + refitting, sounds very within reasonable time and actually fast. So £60 per hour she was advised is fair. She is totally out of order and I suggest you email her with a carefully worded letter informing her of her demands and that she agreed to £60 per hour.
Frankly, I think the law allows you to charge that cost unless she had been given a quote from you for much less

 

[hammers4spanner]

I never know where the law actually lies with these little jobs..
I got caught out early in the year verbal telephone agreement done the job and finished and she decided to pay what she felt like it which was less than verbal agreement.

It would be your version vs hers without some type of written agreement.

 

[Nostrum]

Do not, under any circumstances, damage their property. :hand: This includes postcrete in the toby, quick setting down the pan or anything to do with expanding foam! :tounge_smile:

The owner, admin and mods do not condone this behaviour and is specifically not recommended by UKPF. :devilish:

Take the legal route, always. :rofl:

They make such a difference...

 

[joni os]

To dispute your invoice she would have to produce expert witness, another plumber, to say your charge was excessive. In London £120 seems reasonable for call out alone.

 

[Best]

I never know where the law actually lies with these little jobs..
I got caught out early in the year verbal telephone agreement done the job and finished and she decided to pay what she felt like it which was less than verbal agreement.

It would be your version vs hers without some type of written agreement.

Law is simple on small or larger work, - unless there is any claim of bad workmanship or damage. If a customer says the work is too expensive or cost is not what they agreed to, then they need proof or they must pay full amount. As long as charges were reasonable and fair. That would probably mean £60 an hour perhaps reasonable, but not perhaps £200 per hour for a plumber.

 

[plumben]

If you send a nice letter headed letter from a local law firm or send her a email saying you sending the court papers off in x amount of days she might give in to save her self the hassle

 

[Unregistered]

Two hours chargeable for trying to clear a toilet and then having to remove the loo and clear blockage + refitting, sounds very within reasonable time and actually fast. So £60 per hour she was advised is fair. She is totally out of order and I suggest you email her with a carefully worded letter informing her of her demands and that she agreed to £60 per hour.
Frankly, I think the law allows you to charge that cost unless she had been given a quote from you for much less

Exactly, I was fast and it wasn't straight forward. Read many of the post and it's like I agree with them all - concrete down drain(would never do that btw) legal proceedings etc.

i know what will happen though, I'm angry now but will just write it off as a loss as time goes by. I am pursuing it by not losing my temper, emailing , phoning and texting her and being polite and professional. I think in these circumstances if you go to their level it makes it a lot easier for them to justify their actions.

Also leaving bad reviews is a 2-way street. She can start doing the same to me and judging by her character she will prob put a lot of effort into this!

i know what some guys are saying about if I let her get away with it she'll do it again more easily but these people usually alienate themselves and in the end will only have the big firms to try and mess about.

So I have demanded my money and stated my case to her and now she says she's on holiday and will talk to me when she gets back...lol

so I have no option but to go there today to demand payment. I'll let you guys know what happens

 

[Masood]

So I have demanded my money and stated my case to her and now she says she's on holiday and will talk to me when she gets back...lol

so I have no option but to go there today to demand payment. I'll let you guys know what happens

I think this is a mistake.

A) How will you demand money from her if she's on holiday? B) it weakens your position if she can claim that she or her staff felt threatened by you turning up making demands with menaces. You may not be menacing but she could claim to have felt threatened.

And if she refuses point blank? Then what? Will you smash the place up? Hit her? Take her possessions? No. You'll walk out of there humiliated because your bluff will have been called in front of witnesses (assuming you're going to the shop).

Send her a final demand, by recorded letter, giving her X number of days to pay, otherwise you will start small claims proceedings, which can include interest, admin fees, court fees etc. Do it right and you will win. Start playing outside the legal system and you won't. Simple.

 

[chris watkins]

I think this is a mistake.

A) How will you demand money from her if she's on holiday? B) it weakens your position if she can claim that she or her staff felt threatened by you turning up making demands with menaces. You may not be menacing but she could claim to have felt threatened.

And if she refuses point blank? Then what? Will you smash the place up? Hit her? Take her possessions? No. You'll walk out of there humiliated because your bluff will have been called in front of witnesses (assuming you're going to the shop).

Send her a final demand, by recorded letter, giving her X number of days to pay, otherwise you will start small claims proceedings, which can include interest, admin fees, court fees etc. Do it right and you will win. Start playing outside the legal system and you won't. Simple.

Very sound advice, please take it !!!

 

[Millsy 82]

What I would do is leave it 21 days after the job finished and post a reminder saying they have 7 days to repay the debt. Also state that (as been said) it is a business to business debt and you have the right to add additional charges to the final invoice.

After you have given them 7 days send out a revised bill and keep doing it until it gets paid.

Send everything by recorded delivery.

 

[Reg Man]

That's rich: She is probably charging £80 + per hour on my misses hair cut; and don't have to go anywhere near unpleasant bum waste.

 

[Best]

For her to advise her clients to avoid you is slanderous if you have done nothing wrong - ie :- honest & good workmanship and reasonable agreed hourly rate.
You should advise her of that in writing, stating that it will damage your good reputation and cause you great loss of money and you will sue her for this.
She stated after the job was done that she only had a £80 budget for the job. As you told her at start that you have a £60 hourly rate, that means she reckoned the time would be 80 minutes maximum. Ask her how she came to the imaginary time scale, especially considering her lack of knowledge of plumbing.

 

[Best]

For her to advise her clients to avoid you is slanderous if you have done nothing wrong - ie :- honest & good workmanship and reasonable agreed hourly rate.
You should advise her of that in writing, stating that it will damage your good reputation and cause you great loss of money and you will sue her for this.
She stated after the job was done that she only had a £80 budget for the job. As you told her at start that you have a £60 hourly rate, that means she reckoned the time would be 80 minutes maximum. Ask her how she came to the imaginary time scale, especially considering her lack of knowledge of plumbing.

 

[Boilerbud]

My barber charges £15 for a hair cut takes maybe 10 minutes and plumbers are called expensive?

 

[Best]

My barber charges £15 for a hair cut takes maybe 10 minutes and plumbers are called expensive?

But barbers cut hair, we plumbers just cut corners - allegedly.

 

[SimonG]

I had something similar. Went to an appointment, nobody in, but spoke to two blokes removing an emergency generator. The place was off the beat and track and would only ge there if you were going there sort of thing. Anyway, bloke phones a couple of days later, its disgusting that you didnt turn up, etc , etc. Said I was there, but nobody home, spoke to the blokes removing the emergency generator etc. He told me that he would tell everybody that I was useless and didnt turn up as planned. Touch of red mist hit me, said I would rip his head off and crap down his neck and actually went down there but he wouldnt open the door. Two days later I had plod on the phone about my threatening behaviour. Apparently the bloke had left all the detail out about the conversation with regard to the bad mouthing. Plod asked me to be more diplomatic in future and were going back to give him a bulling.

Upshot is, keep it firm, keep it, clean and keep it legal. But chase it down.

 

[SimonG]

I had something similar. Went to an appointment, nobody in, but spoke to two blokes removing an emergency generator. The place was off the beat and track and would only ge there if you were going there sort of thing. Anyway, bloke phones a couple of days later, its disgusting that you didnt turn up, etc , etc. Said I was there, but nobody home, spoke to the blokes removing the emergency generator etc. He told me that he would tell everybody that I was useless and didnt turn up as planned. Touch of red mist hit me, said I would rip his head off and crap down his neck and actually went down there but he wouldnt open the door. Two days later I had plod on the phone about my threatening behaviour. Apparently the bloke had left all the detail out about the conversation with regard to the bad mouthing. Plod asked me to be more diplomatic in future and were going back to give him a bulling.

Upshot is, keep it firm, keep it, clean and keep it legal. But chase it down.