- Thread starter armyash
- Start date
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
Her partner has said she has spoken to her home insurance company who have said if she made a claim through them, they would try to recoup the costs from me. I don't think she wants to go through them because it may push her premiums up as well as drag on.
With regards to accepting instalments, I think they feel as though they are doing me a favour as they think I have no money and by saying so they are showing themselves to be reasonable.
If they had called me as soon as the problem occurred I would have been there asap, sorted for free, and dealt with it as best I could, if I had needed someone to sort the tile out I could have done so for a fraction of what they have paid.
In the last 6 months I have had 2 or 3 jobs where a screw or nail have been plugging a hole and the leak has appeared as the screw/nail has corroded and no longer able to act as a plug.
Its hard to say because the picture is not crystal clear. I'm not disputing it happened on the install I did but its s stupid place to run heating pipes and my biggest issue is how they have asked for the money with me not knowing anything about it.
O
Old Account
Howpossible is it that someone will be so lucky to find that central heating leak? As mentioned earlier it’s a needle in the hay stack thing. Only a person who knew there were pipes below the pan could find it so easily. That would be for me almost the last resort to look for a leak on a ch leak.
O
Old Account
Which plumber ? The people who did all the rest of a complete new plumber? If she would like to court she must have ask per the installer who fixed it for a plumbers report. Could you not get the report of her?
W
Welder
For some balance here, and as already said, I've had a job about 9 months ago where a nail had gone through a heating pipe some years earlier. It only started leaking when the nail finally rusted away. The system had never been perfect, always losing pressure over 6 months or so but they simply topped it up and got on with life.
So, as we all know life is stranger than fiction and these things can happen. All that said though Ash is def being targeted and its being dealt with. She's made some rubbish assumptions and picked on the wrong dude in the wrong industry. Supporting one another is just something we all do I'm sure. I dunno about Girl Power, this is the power of the pipe slice!! 😀😀😀
So, as we all know life is stranger than fiction and these things can happen. All that said though Ash is def being targeted and its being dealt with. She's made some rubbish assumptions and picked on the wrong dude in the wrong industry. Supporting one another is just something we all do I'm sure. I dunno about Girl Power, this is the power of the pipe slice!! 😀😀😀
Ash,
Don't get yourself worked up about the situation.
Just get the customer to send you through the photo's and invoices / reports from the people who did the repair job.
Contact your insurance company and forward the information on.
Let the customer know that you have placed the claim with your insurance company and to deal with them in the future.
If they can't produce the receipts for the repair works, then you have nothing to answer.
I had a situation a couple of years ago where I told the owner I would just pay for the repairs because the repairs were less than my insurance excess.
I asked him to send me through the invoice from the repairer. He said he paid the repairer cash and has no receipt or invoice.
I just told him I would pay the amount when I received a copy of the invoice, description of the works done and a receipt of payment from the person who did the works.
Never heard from him again.
Don't get yourself worked up about the situation.
Just get the customer to send you through the photo's and invoices / reports from the people who did the repair job.
Contact your insurance company and forward the information on.
Let the customer know that you have placed the claim with your insurance company and to deal with them in the future.
If they can't produce the receipts for the repair works, then you have nothing to answer.
I had a situation a couple of years ago where I told the owner I would just pay for the repairs because the repairs were less than my insurance excess.
I asked him to send me through the invoice from the repairer. He said he paid the repairer cash and has no receipt or invoice.
I just told him I would pay the amount when I received a copy of the invoice, description of the works done and a receipt of payment from the person who did the works.
Never heard from him again.
Problem is with contacting your insurance company is they might pay the customer the amount.
I would wait and see what bull the customer gives you in writing, invoices, photos, and then decide if her case is flawed.
No rules to say you have to use or inform your insurance.
I would wait and see what bull the customer gives you in writing, invoices, photos, and then decide if her case is flawed.
No rules to say you have to use or inform your insurance.
She really needs to provide you with more evidence. If that's the repair job in the photo then it is evidence of nothing without the damaged section of pipe being available for you to inspect. You'd then be able to determine if the hole was indeed caused by a screw or any number of other possibilities including being deeply scuffed by a trowel, a manufacturing fault with the pipe (I've seen brand new microbore with a quarter inch long hole in before) or corrosion caused by the screed/adhesive assuming the pipes weren't protected.
I'd stand my ground and demand the piece evidence.
I'd stand my ground and demand the piece evidence.
Thanks oz and best, won't be using insurance for this. Im not stressing anymore. I'll see it through to the end, if it goes to court and I lose I can live knowing I didn't roll over.
They at no point made me aware of the issue and had repairs done before let to g me know then said its a case of 300 or we go to court. I legally should have been made aware and given a chance to do something about - my understanding so far.
Their argument is that I should have checked for pipes being there and that I didn't carry out the work with due care and attention. - I say I did.
I'd say it's stronger in my favour.
They at no point made me aware of the issue and had repairs done before let to g me know then said its a case of 300 or we go to court. I legally should have been made aware and given a chance to do something about - my understanding so far.
Their argument is that I should have checked for pipes being there and that I didn't carry out the work with due care and attention. - I say I did.
I'd say it's stronger in my favour.
As someone said earlier, could just be a pin hole through age corrosion.
IF it were to reach court which I doubt it will I doubt if the repair man would be willing to be there to give evidence.
IF it were to reach court which I doubt it will I doubt if the repair man would be willing to be there to give evidence.
Hi Ash,
I was just inferring to use insurance as a ploy.
That way, you could ask the customer to send you through all the photo's and repair bills that were incurred on their behalf so you could forward them off to your insurance company.
[ The ball is their court then. It's up to them to give you the information you require to process a claim. Tell them you can't begin the process until you have all the information your insurance company requires]
You would also have the repairer(s) details and you could contact them about what the repairs were and what they think caused the problem. ( if you wish )
I personally wouldn't claim on insurance for the amount of money they are chasing you for. But I would make sure I have all ALL the information they have regarding their claim against you.
I would also infer, from now on, all communication via email.
Respond to them politely and promptly, if they call you, just ask them to email you.
I was just inferring to use insurance as a ploy.
That way, you could ask the customer to send you through all the photo's and repair bills that were incurred on their behalf so you could forward them off to your insurance company.
[ The ball is their court then. It's up to them to give you the information you require to process a claim. Tell them you can't begin the process until you have all the information your insurance company requires]
You would also have the repairer(s) details and you could contact them about what the repairs were and what they think caused the problem. ( if you wish )
I personally wouldn't claim on insurance for the amount of money they are chasing you for. But I would make sure I have all ALL the information they have regarding their claim against you.
I would also infer, from now on, all communication via email.
Respond to them politely and promptly, if they call you, just ask them to email you.
Thanks to everyone so far for taking the time to reply.
After some good advice, I have sent them a letter, I have not heard back yet.
A week ago I spoke to the company who did the repairs, I spoke to the boss who priced the repair and he sent a someone to do it, he said I was extremely unlucky and could have happened to anyone. He has done work for them before and can't stand them, he said they are a nightmare to work for.
He also agreed not to pay out as there was no way of checking the pipes were there, at most he said maybe offer £100 goodwill gesture but don't admit anything.
He also agreed she should have come to me first. He seemed genuine, he spent more time complaining about the customer than talking about the job.
Will update when I can.
After some good advice, I have sent them a letter, I have not heard back yet.
A week ago I spoke to the company who did the repairs, I spoke to the boss who priced the repair and he sent a someone to do it, he said I was extremely unlucky and could have happened to anyone. He has done work for them before and can't stand them, he said they are a nightmare to work for.
He also agreed not to pay out as there was no way of checking the pipes were there, at most he said maybe offer £100 goodwill gesture but don't admit anything.
He also agreed she should have come to me first. He seemed genuine, he spent more time complaining about the customer than talking about the job.
Will update when I can.
If you had drilled it then you would have got wet.
Never gave you chance to inspect or repair.
Strongly worded letter including a paragraph with regard to taking a very dim view of a customer attempting to make fraudulent claims.
Did a bathroom about 4 years ago, 18 months after they wanted me to go back and replace the seal on the shower bath screen as it had gone mouldy. Fine, but chargeable as I hadn't supplied the materials. I received a snotty text, saved it and didn't hear a thing for 4 months. Then received a letter to say that the bath leaked and damaged the ceiling below because I hadn't installed the screen seal or the bath properly. Wanted 750 for repairs.
I sent a letter, recorded delivery, with a transcript of the message they sent, that I believed they had incorrectly changed the seal and caused the leak and that if they wanted to pursue a fraudulent claim I would see them in court. Never heard a thing.
Some people are just a$$holes.
Never gave you chance to inspect or repair.
Strongly worded letter including a paragraph with regard to taking a very dim view of a customer attempting to make fraudulent claims.
Did a bathroom about 4 years ago, 18 months after they wanted me to go back and replace the seal on the shower bath screen as it had gone mouldy. Fine, but chargeable as I hadn't supplied the materials. I received a snotty text, saved it and didn't hear a thing for 4 months. Then received a letter to say that the bath leaked and damaged the ceiling below because I hadn't installed the screen seal or the bath properly. Wanted 750 for repairs.
I sent a letter, recorded delivery, with a transcript of the message they sent, that I believed they had incorrectly changed the seal and caused the leak and that if they wanted to pursue a fraudulent claim I would see them in court. Never heard a thing.
Some people are just a$$holes.
4 months after your last post on here about it? Or have they been in touch before this?
Hi, apologies for the delay. From all the previous posts we know the story, it's been 3/4 months since anything has happened.
I sent them a letter back in May/early June at a push, very polite and pretty much said I don't accept liability. The repairs were done before I was made aware there was a problem. I offered £150 as a 'goodwill gesture' but no fault accepted. I explained I had taken advice from trading standards etc and the 'repeat performance' factor that I didn't get the opportunity to do goes in my favour.
The fact that she didn't want me back in the house is neither here nor there, she cant have it both ways. She can't get repairs done without me being aware of the issue and then come to me for the money. If she didn't want me to do the repairs she had to tell me that and I should have been given a chance to agree to anything being done.
All I've received are the photos I've posted on here and an invoice from the plumbing company who repaired the pipe which is £340.
The letter dated 16.9.18 from (1st time contact from her and not the boyfriend) says that she wants £450 to cover the total cost of repairs or she is taking me to court. It's all worded politely. She says if it goes to court she will also be claiming court costs and compensation for the inconvenience caused. She says thank you for the offer of £150 but doesn't think that is reasonable. She has given me 30 days to respond or she will be taking court action..
I sent them a letter back in May/early June at a push, very polite and pretty much said I don't accept liability. The repairs were done before I was made aware there was a problem. I offered £150 as a 'goodwill gesture' but no fault accepted. I explained I had taken advice from trading standards etc and the 'repeat performance' factor that I didn't get the opportunity to do goes in my favour.
The fact that she didn't want me back in the house is neither here nor there, she cant have it both ways. She can't get repairs done without me being aware of the issue and then come to me for the money. If she didn't want me to do the repairs she had to tell me that and I should have been given a chance to agree to anything being done.
All I've received are the photos I've posted on here and an invoice from the plumbing company who repaired the pipe which is £340.
The letter dated 16.9.18 from (1st time contact from her and not the boyfriend) says that she wants £450 to cover the total cost of repairs or she is taking me to court. It's all worded politely. She says if it goes to court she will also be claiming court costs and compensation for the inconvenience caused. She says thank you for the offer of £150 but doesn't think that is reasonable. She has given me 30 days to respond or she will be taking court action..
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
go to court then but the same will happen if you win plus lost work expenses at x amount 😀
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
As above really mate. But you will be claiming for the inconvenience, court costs and loss of earning for the whole time you are in court. The slackness in their time responding back to you will also go in your favour.
I would work as hard as possible between now and then. 8 x your hourly rate should do it
Yes, go to court. In reality that is, prepare for court with a reply letter.
It is a game of bluff usually and both sides wait to see who gives in first.
You need to do a reply letter to their latest letter , just stating very politely a repeat of your side of the story, how you should have been informed instead of being accused of unsubstantiated damage long after your work.
Repeat that your £150 was a goodwill gesture only, without any liability on your part, and now that it has been rejected you now withdraw the offer.
Do mention you believe you have been unfairly treated and ignored.
Do as Shaun said and say you will be claiming for lost earnings and expenses.
It is a game of bluff usually and both sides wait to see who gives in first.
You need to do a reply letter to their latest letter , just stating very politely a repeat of your side of the story, how you should have been informed instead of being accused of unsubstantiated damage long after your work.
Repeat that your £150 was a goodwill gesture only, without any liability on your part, and now that it has been rejected you now withdraw the offer.
Do mention you believe you have been unfairly treated and ignored.
Do as Shaun said and say you will be claiming for lost earnings and expenses.
Last edited:
Yes, I think best to always retaliate with a very polite but hard response, reversing the points made against Armyash and putting the customer under the same treatment.
The £150 offer was a risky one because it infers admission of some responsibility, so I would repeat it was only a goodwill gesture and generous considering I have only had a couple of photos and apparently a third party report a long period after I had done the work, with total refusal for allowing me any involvement including opportunity of notification or viewing of any allegation.
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
Ok Armyash, - are you a chicken - or a man? 🙂
I look at it as small money that people assume you will rather pay than be taken to court.
I would call their bluff and on a principle, pay them nothing, should I cost myself at least that amount in lost time
I look at it as small money that people assume you will rather pay than be taken to court.
I would call their bluff and on a principle, pay them nothing, should I cost myself at least that amount in lost time
Excellent advice from everyone once again. I understand the goodwill gesture was risky but it was crystal clear there was no admission of fault.
I will get a letter written up this week and I will post it up on here before I send it.
I feel things are more in my favour, I realise it's possible I can lose if it goes to court but I would rather lose in court, pay whatever they say than roll over now and give them money without a fight.
I will get a letter written up this week and I will post it up on here before I send it.
I feel things are more in my favour, I realise it's possible I can lose if it goes to court but I would rather lose in court, pay whatever they say than roll over now and give them money without a fight.
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
It’s what I hate most about this industry. Engineers to willing to slate each other, rather then stick up for each other. Completely winds me up to my core.
neither do I and to be honest you would have to be really unlucky for the court to not see what has happened here.
It would have been fair enough if Armyash had have done something that was clearly incompetent or cowboy work,
but drilling a newly tiled floor where you were asked to fit a toilet was just an unfortunate incident that a pipe happened to be below the exact spot. (If he actually did cause the leak).
The position of the holes to be drilled in the floor would have been most likely with little, if any, choice of position.
And any pipes should ideally have been not installed below where a toilet could be and to a decent depth.
If I had have been the trade coming to find the leak, I would have told the customer it was an unknown risk to the plumber and therefore not his fault really
They are going to argue that I either was incompetent or didn't check for pipes under the tiles. Not sure how I could have checked that. I will argue that a pan was previously fitted there so I had no reason to expect there to be pipes where I would be drilling.
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
W
Welder
Hi Ash.
Firstly, your 'gesture' was exactly that. You made it clear there was no liability taken. The law does not see that kind of thing as normal people see it. The law sees that gesture as simply that NO inference whatsoever. That is now concluded.
However, it works in your favour as you have demonstrated you wished to move towards them. She has remained intransigent.
You have also asked for further information, disclosure in legal terms. They have either ignored or refused to supply that information. The court will require it believe me.
If it were me, I would not even acknowledge the requests. Why? To do so puts her in charge, leaves her to drive it and you to respond. Personally, I would resend the letter asking for full disclosure and breakdowns of all costs but now it would be minus the gesture. Perhaps. and I am not certain here so you need to take some advice, you now start talking of your accrued costs.
When she issues the court order, you have the chance to issue a counterclaim. Another alternative is to issue a court order against her before she raises one to you for the harassment. Again advice reqd.
The bad news there though is that as a self employed person, where we all minimise our tax liability and therefore minimise our income, your potential claim will be quite light in terms of hourly rate. You can completely forget £400 a day unless you can prove you are currently paying tax at that same rate.
As already discussed however, and hopefully you've carried out, you'll have kept contemporaneos notes to indicate just what time you have spent defending yourself against this daft accusation and therefore be able to quantify time spent.
The reality of these cases is that often, even if you win, the judge may tell you you have nothing to claim. You will have 'won' in the eyes of the law but it will have cost you to do so. It may well prove more expensive to defend your honour than to roll over.
In order to minimise your costs, I would draw up a summary/timeline of events to take to someone so they can get stuck into it without racking up too many hours at £200 per hour.
Or just meet her in dark alley and graphically explain her future to her 😱 JUST KIDDIN!
PS. What you can do in the meantime is to gather evidence from an independent engineer (e.g. someone who's perhaps a CIPHE member) who will act as an expert witness on your behalf. The cost of this will form part of your counterclaim. I would be asking what custom & practise is (so what normal plumbers do) for the scenario you encountered. Personally I know of no one who would have checked for pipes underfloor. It is not 'reasonable' (legal term for normal) to do so. Even if they say it is one can soon inject an element of farce into what might be a problem. Most of the time you can also through their desire to keep costs down back at them in those circumstances too so you were forced by the insistence to keep costs down to do a minimal job. You get my drift. In court they'll look bloody daft.
Firstly, your 'gesture' was exactly that. You made it clear there was no liability taken. The law does not see that kind of thing as normal people see it. The law sees that gesture as simply that NO inference whatsoever. That is now concluded.
However, it works in your favour as you have demonstrated you wished to move towards them. She has remained intransigent.
You have also asked for further information, disclosure in legal terms. They have either ignored or refused to supply that information. The court will require it believe me.
If it were me, I would not even acknowledge the requests. Why? To do so puts her in charge, leaves her to drive it and you to respond. Personally, I would resend the letter asking for full disclosure and breakdowns of all costs but now it would be minus the gesture. Perhaps. and I am not certain here so you need to take some advice, you now start talking of your accrued costs.
When she issues the court order, you have the chance to issue a counterclaim. Another alternative is to issue a court order against her before she raises one to you for the harassment. Again advice reqd.
The bad news there though is that as a self employed person, where we all minimise our tax liability and therefore minimise our income, your potential claim will be quite light in terms of hourly rate. You can completely forget £400 a day unless you can prove you are currently paying tax at that same rate.
As already discussed however, and hopefully you've carried out, you'll have kept contemporaneos notes to indicate just what time you have spent defending yourself against this daft accusation and therefore be able to quantify time spent.
The reality of these cases is that often, even if you win, the judge may tell you you have nothing to claim. You will have 'won' in the eyes of the law but it will have cost you to do so. It may well prove more expensive to defend your honour than to roll over.
In order to minimise your costs, I would draw up a summary/timeline of events to take to someone so they can get stuck into it without racking up too many hours at £200 per hour.
Or just meet her in dark alley and graphically explain her future to her 😱 JUST KIDDIN!
PS. What you can do in the meantime is to gather evidence from an independent engineer (e.g. someone who's perhaps a CIPHE member) who will act as an expert witness on your behalf. The cost of this will form part of your counterclaim. I would be asking what custom & practise is (so what normal plumbers do) for the scenario you encountered. Personally I know of no one who would have checked for pipes underfloor. It is not 'reasonable' (legal term for normal) to do so. Even if they say it is one can soon inject an element of farce into what might be a problem. Most of the time you can also through their desire to keep costs down back at them in those circumstances too so you were forced by the insistence to keep costs down to do a minimal job. You get my drift. In court they'll look bloody daft.
Last edited by a moderator:
As a socialist, and an ethical business, I would like to clarify that my accounting practices reflect my actual income and my actual expenditure accurately so that I will be taxed fairly to pay for essential public services (amongst other things the government spends money on).
No doubt Dave is merely referring to the fact that we all record our expenses and these are subtracted from our income, thus our day rate is not all profit, but I would like to have it on record that willfully misrepresenting profit to be lower than it actually is is not acceptable practice and not something I do myself. This is what some of the less ethical corporations are doing and I do not approve of it.
Same here mate. Everything I earn goes through my books. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
W
Welder
Excuse me! Where the hell did that come from?
No Ric, I am not referring to that at all.
Read what I said, do not read anything INTO what I said based on your own biases.
We all legally minimise our tax liability - that's what we pay accountants for.
Do not try to portrait me as some tax evader cos that will p1ss me right off...
Dave I think it was these four words that caused confusion.
"and minimise our income"
I don’t think he meant for you to take offence mate. He was just saying that not all of us are bothered about our tax liability. I for one earn want I earn and will pay tax on all of it. As we all know not all of us do that. (I think that was his point).
Dave,
I wouldn't dream of portraying you as a tax evader, and I meant to be quite clear on that point in my second paragraph. Obviously I failed, though I'm not quite sure how I could have been any clearer.
All I meant was that your comment could be interpreted more than one way; while you no doubt simply meant that a £400 day rate could not be claimed as loss of earnings because there would also be loss of expenses (as I explained), the line about minimising tax liability could be read in another way too. And the way your line about Ash not being able to prove he is paying tax on £400 a day reads, really did suggest to me that you thought HE was on the fiddle. Clearly an honest self-assessment, with income of £400 a day would declare £400 a day, but would also declare £*** a day in expenses to be deducted from income, making taxable profit much lower.
All I wanted to clarify that I do not approve of or engage in any tax evasion or legal or illegal avoidance techniques (except a small ISA, my mother's suggestion, and a waste of time in any case if you ask me, as it was set up at a time when I was a student and not earning over the tax threshold (and I would feel bad about that, if it actually made any meaningful interest)).
No aspersions on your tax return accuracy were intended or implied!
W
Welder
Bloody hate email...
Sorry people. **** day. What I should have done is asked for clarification before getting out of my pram.
I really do appreciate everyone trying to make me see sense.
My real point was/is. A day rate isn't what we end up earning as an annual rate. The courts will take your HMRC declared annual income (because that is generally the only way you can prove income to them) and divide it by the working days in a year regardless of whether you take any holiday or not.
Have a good evening and apologies again. 🙄
Sorry people. **** day. What I should have done is asked for clarification before getting out of my pram.
I really do appreciate everyone trying to make me see sense.
My real point was/is. A day rate isn't what we end up earning as an annual rate. The courts will take your HMRC declared annual income (because that is generally the only way you can prove income to them) and divide it by the working days in a year regardless of whether you take any holiday or not.
Have a good evening and apologies again. 🙄
No problems. I take it you watched Jeremy Hunt's speech on Youtube at lunchtime too? Enough to put most of Europe in a bad mood, while I sat in front of my monitor thinking 'Oh my God? Dod he really say that publicly?'.
Hope tomorrow's better for you mate!
Hope tomorrow's better for you mate!
W
Welder
Sorry, that response was on a rubbish day.
Today is yet another. No not that fool. Even bigger fools. Insurers. My car was written off a couple of weeks ago whilst I was taking my wife to hospital. We were inside and nowhere near it. However the old boy just drove off.
These things happen and frankly he could have received any manner of news so I wasn't too fussed. However the insurers, Elephant (part of the Admiral Group but not admirable) are a nightmare. I want it back etc so that's sorted but it turns out I'll be paying 30% more on my premium for ever as I was a victim. Plus they refuse to pay out for a hire car whilst mine is off being repaired. They also told me I needed a new MOT as it had been written off and gave me some nonsensical write off category. The guy from DVLA just burst into laughter when I told him what they required me to do!
Upshot of all of this is that i have to take out a private prosecution on this old boy to get back what I'm owed by insurers. What I shall be doing however is citing them as the reason I'm doing it so they get lots of SM attention over their appalling attitude.
Off to write yet another letter....
Today is yet another. No not that fool. Even bigger fools. Insurers. My car was written off a couple of weeks ago whilst I was taking my wife to hospital. We were inside and nowhere near it. However the old boy just drove off.
These things happen and frankly he could have received any manner of news so I wasn't too fussed. However the insurers, Elephant (part of the Admiral Group but not admirable) are a nightmare. I want it back etc so that's sorted but it turns out I'll be paying 30% more on my premium for ever as I was a victim. Plus they refuse to pay out for a hire car whilst mine is off being repaired. They also told me I needed a new MOT as it had been written off and gave me some nonsensical write off category. The guy from DVLA just burst into laughter when I told him what they required me to do!
Upshot of all of this is that i have to take out a private prosecution on this old boy to get back what I'm owed by insurers. What I shall be doing however is citing them as the reason I'm doing it so they get lots of SM attention over their appalling attitude.
Off to write yet another letter....
Blood sucking scum all insurers..its an absolute joke.
My mate lost his wallet in Morrissons and he was nagged by his wife to ring up and asked if the cash in it was covered by his house insurance so he rang up to ask and of course it wasn't. Big miskate to tell them anything!
The next day some guy had found it and dropped it back in to him and the following year his house insurance went up so he rang up to ask why and the woman said it says here you lost your wallet last year and he was like yes...but I didn't claim and she said yes but you still lost it and you've proved yourself a higher risk.
So the old geezer managed to completely write off a car in the car park and just drove off?
Same Phil as if you are doing nothing wrong when driving and someone crashes into you.
Your insurance company can put your insurance up the next year despite if you have protected no claims bonus and that the other persons insurance had covered the costs.
Then the next year if you decide just to take your business elsewhere - the other insurances will ask - did you have an accident in the last 5 years?
Although the accident was nothing to do with you, they look at you as a higher risk and will quote you higher.
Your previous protected bonus is irrelevant because it was only with the previous insurance.
It is all a joke.
They must give you the opportunity to fix it at your expense. You are not responsible if they pay someone else to do the work. They have just shot themselves in the foot
W
Welder
They do Duncan. However, YOU still pay more. All this BS about protected no claims is smoke and mirrors. They put your basic premium up - end of.
My thoughts are to test this in European court of human rights. I feel sure this victimisation (cos that's what it is) is unlawful.
Have written directly the the Admiral Group Chief Exec today telling him the service delivered is raf from admirable 😕.
He, or his office, have opened it so we'll see where that goes.
I've just caught up on the recent posts. I hope all is sorted.
I will get it back on topic for those interested. Here is what the letter from the customer says.
Got my surname wrong. I don't use my surname as the name of my company, I have left them business cards with my name before and it wouldn't be hard to find who I am using my mobile number)
She did not at the time tell me about the damage in full (she wasn't aware of it, I didn't find out until 11.5.18!, the boyfriend text me on the 10th after I missed his call. I called him in the 11th and that's when he told me what had happened and they had the leak repaired by then)
Ive requested invoices, all I've received is an invoice from the plumbing firm for £340.
I have a recording of the call I have made to the company who did the repairs and he says that he advised her to get me back but she said she was taking me to court.
I will get it back on topic for those interested. Here is what the letter from the customer says.
Got my surname wrong. I don't use my surname as the name of my company, I have left them business cards with my name before and it wouldn't be hard to find who I am using my mobile number)
She did not at the time tell me about the damage in full (she wasn't aware of it, I didn't find out until 11.5.18!, the boyfriend text me on the 10th after I missed his call. I called him in the 11th and that's when he told me what had happened and they had the leak repaired by then)
Ive requested invoices, all I've received is an invoice from the plumbing firm for £340.
I have a recording of the call I have made to the company who did the repairs and he says that he advised her to get me back but she said she was taking me to court.
'At the time' implies that at the time you caused the damage, you were aware or made aware of it. I would rebutt this. She could be referring to your correspondance of May, but I would make it absolutely clear that as far as you could possibly tell, there was no leak when you left the property.
An anecdote for you. A friend of mine was working in a very posh house some years ago. His boss rang him at 20.00 hours and he goes to investigate a leak at a house he had worked on that day. He gets there, and he's going to be sued, the damage he has caused etc etc how can he call himself a plumber bla bla bla. And he wanders to the floor where he had run pipes that day.
'Oh', he says, 'I see you've started putting the boards back down.'
'Yes, but waste of time since your pipework leaks bla bla bla! Sue you, hundreds of pounds of damage, ornate plastered ceiling etc.'
'Funny though that you've put the nails in the centre of the boards. I always run the pipes in notches down where the centre of the board will be so you can nail on each side of the pipes. I wonder if a nail has gone through a pipe.'
At this point, the customer went quiet and my friend fitted a replacement section to the nail-damaged pipe. He never got an apology, mind you!
Not saying what happened in your case was the same, but I smell a rat.
An anecdote for you. A friend of mine was working in a very posh house some years ago. His boss rang him at 20.00 hours and he goes to investigate a leak at a house he had worked on that day. He gets there, and he's going to be sued, the damage he has caused etc etc how can he call himself a plumber bla bla bla. And he wanders to the floor where he had run pipes that day.
'Oh', he says, 'I see you've started putting the boards back down.'
'Yes, but waste of time since your pipework leaks bla bla bla! Sue you, hundreds of pounds of damage, ornate plastered ceiling etc.'
'Funny though that you've put the nails in the centre of the boards. I always run the pipes in notches down where the centre of the board will be so you can nail on each side of the pipes. I wonder if a nail has gone through a pipe.'
At this point, the customer went quiet and my friend fitted a replacement section to the nail-damaged pipe. He never got an apology, mind you!
Not saying what happened in your case was the same, but I smell a rat.
Ive re-read it, yes it could be she meant she made me aware of the damage etc in May. Still too late though as she had paid for the repairs by then and not made me aware.
Read the first sentence the customer has done in that letter.
It says - “Damage to floor and pipework ..................... due to faulty fitting of toilet.”
Begs the questions - how they can allege the toilet was faulty installed and also -how could the toilet be installed other than by drilling of the points on the floor determined by where the customer wanted the toilet pan fixed and where the toilet manufacturer designed the fixing points?
The letter reads repeatedly as threats of court. Classic scare tactics in hope you will compromise.
They might go to court, but I would go.
Take your time for a few days to read that letter. Note they give you 30 days to respond, so take all that time to do so, - pees them off and allows you time to work out your tactics.
You don’t need to respond, but a polite letter, short but concise, cleverly done to rebuff their story would be good.
Perhaps think about pointing out your name is not what they used.
You were not informed of any allegation and the company she employed have informed you that she told them she just wanted court against their advice.
Toilet fixing points were not moveable.
Pipes were not traceable nor should they be so shallow and ideally not have been installed below a toilet pan.
Not important here on the forum but stay away from using brackets in a formal letter or come back and proof read after 24hrs mate. 😱
OK here is what I intend to send. It will be handwritten, set out properly and no use of brackets. 🙂
Please let me know if I should add anything, remove anything or change anything. Thanks. Here we go.
Dear Ms........
Thank you for your letter dated 16.9.18. I too was happy to come to an agreement with you regarding the leak at your property. I'd like to remind you that my offer of £150.00 was a goodwill gesture to hopefully resolve the matter and not a refund for being at fault. I believe this was a fair offer under the circumstances as I was never given an opportunity to rectify the plumbing although between the toilet being fitted and you getting the repair done you had enough time to make me aware of what had happened.
This is the first correspondence from yourself in the 6 months since I fitted the toilet. All other discussions have been between myself and your partner Mr....... of (insert address).
The first I heard of the matter was when I spoke to Mr..... on 11th May 2 months after the toilet was fitted. I asked why was I not asked to make any repairs and he said it was because you didn't want me in the property. If you didn't want me in your property to carry out the repairs I still should have been made aware a repair was needed and given the chance to discuss repairs to be made by another plumber. That never happened Mr..... Said its a case of hand over the sum in question or you will take me to court. I asked for time to get back to him. This caused me considerable distress as I felt I was being blackmailed.
I feel the need to address other aspects of your letter. The toilet was not fitted in a faulty way. It was connected to the existing plumbing. I had no reason to expect there to be heating pipes under the tiled floor as there had been a pan fitted there previously and it is not good practise to fit pipes where a pan will need to be fixed. There was no sign of a leak as I fitted the toilet and when I returned a few days later to board up the cavity wall there was still no sign of a leak. There is no realistic way I could have checked for pipes being there.
I have spoken to the company who carried out the repair who confirmed it was not done through incompetence but that during plunbing tasks this can happen. They said that they advised you to get me back to carry out the repair but you said no and that you wanted to take me to court to get the money, I have this call recorded and can provide transcripts of the conversation.
I have taken advice and I have been told I should have been given the opportunity to rectify the fault within a reasonable time frame. This is called 'repeat performance'. If you didn't want me in the property then I still should have been made aware of the problem and a chance to discuss repairs and come to an agreement. I still hope to resolve this matter amicably but I feel what I have offered is more than fair considering everything. For any future correspondence I'd like to make you aware that my surname is..... and not.....
Yours sincerely
Not in the letter. I charged £320 to fit the toilet and also vanity unit and basin. I supplied pan con and copper pipe and fittings and the basin waste, waste pipe, trap and fittings. The toilet took approx 1.5hour to fit the rest of the job was knocking out the wall to get to the basin supplies and repipe and make good the wall. I felt that was a fair price each way.
Please let me know if I should add anything, remove anything or change anything. Thanks. Here we go.
Dear Ms........
Thank you for your letter dated 16.9.18. I too was happy to come to an agreement with you regarding the leak at your property. I'd like to remind you that my offer of £150.00 was a goodwill gesture to hopefully resolve the matter and not a refund for being at fault. I believe this was a fair offer under the circumstances as I was never given an opportunity to rectify the plumbing although between the toilet being fitted and you getting the repair done you had enough time to make me aware of what had happened.
This is the first correspondence from yourself in the 6 months since I fitted the toilet. All other discussions have been between myself and your partner Mr....... of (insert address).
The first I heard of the matter was when I spoke to Mr..... on 11th May 2 months after the toilet was fitted. I asked why was I not asked to make any repairs and he said it was because you didn't want me in the property. If you didn't want me in your property to carry out the repairs I still should have been made aware a repair was needed and given the chance to discuss repairs to be made by another plumber. That never happened Mr..... Said its a case of hand over the sum in question or you will take me to court. I asked for time to get back to him. This caused me considerable distress as I felt I was being blackmailed.
I feel the need to address other aspects of your letter. The toilet was not fitted in a faulty way. It was connected to the existing plumbing. I had no reason to expect there to be heating pipes under the tiled floor as there had been a pan fitted there previously and it is not good practise to fit pipes where a pan will need to be fixed. There was no sign of a leak as I fitted the toilet and when I returned a few days later to board up the cavity wall there was still no sign of a leak. There is no realistic way I could have checked for pipes being there.
I have spoken to the company who carried out the repair who confirmed it was not done through incompetence but that during plunbing tasks this can happen. They said that they advised you to get me back to carry out the repair but you said no and that you wanted to take me to court to get the money, I have this call recorded and can provide transcripts of the conversation.
I have taken advice and I have been told I should have been given the opportunity to rectify the fault within a reasonable time frame. This is called 'repeat performance'. If you didn't want me in the property then I still should have been made aware of the problem and a chance to discuss repairs and come to an agreement. I still hope to resolve this matter amicably but I feel what I have offered is more than fair considering everything. For any future correspondence I'd like to make you aware that my surname is..... and not.....
Yours sincerely
Not in the letter. I charged £320 to fit the toilet and also vanity unit and basin. I supplied pan con and copper pipe and fittings and the basin waste, waste pipe, trap and fittings. The toilet took approx 1.5hour to fit the rest of the job was knocking out the wall to get to the basin supplies and repipe and make good the wall. I felt that was a fair price each way.
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
I wouldn't add the first bit "I too was happy to come to an agreement with you regarding the leak at your property." sounds like your admission
W
Welder
"I believe this was a fair offer under the circumstances as I was never given an opportunity to rectify the plumbing although between the toilet being fitted and you getting the repair done you had enough time to make me aware of what had happened."
Ash. In my opinion, I would not phrase this as it is. Why? There is implication of 'fault'. Personally, I'd rewrite thus, "I made you a 'no fault, without prejudice' offer despite your failure to notify me there was a problem until after it had be rectified by a third party."
"I have spoken to the company who carried out the repair who confirmed it was not done through incompetence but that during plunbing tasks this can happen. They said that they advised you to get me back to carry out the repair but you said no and that you wanted to take me to court to get the money, I have this call recorded and can provide transcripts of the conversation."
Similarly this para. "Having spoken at some length with those you engaged to rectify the issue, they confirm they advised you to ask me back to rectify the issue. They made a point of explaining that you stated your wish was to take me to court to get the money. This conversation was recorded and I shall be providing transcripts at disclosure."
The point is to NOT admit or even hint at admitting its your fault, but to become slightly more confrontational and not read like you're going to roll over.
I just now wonder if you talk about counterclaim at this juncture based on the time and effort and cost of defending yourself against this erroneous claim?
Ash. In my opinion, I would not phrase this as it is. Why? There is implication of 'fault'. Personally, I'd rewrite thus, "I made you a 'no fault, without prejudice' offer despite your failure to notify me there was a problem until after it had be rectified by a third party."
"I have spoken to the company who carried out the repair who confirmed it was not done through incompetence but that during plunbing tasks this can happen. They said that they advised you to get me back to carry out the repair but you said no and that you wanted to take me to court to get the money, I have this call recorded and can provide transcripts of the conversation."
Similarly this para. "Having spoken at some length with those you engaged to rectify the issue, they confirm they advised you to ask me back to rectify the issue. They made a point of explaining that you stated your wish was to take me to court to get the money. This conversation was recorded and I shall be providing transcripts at disclosure."
The point is to NOT admit or even hint at admitting its your fault, but to become slightly more confrontational and not read like you're going to roll over.
I just now wonder if you talk about counterclaim at this juncture based on the time and effort and cost of defending yourself against this erroneous claim?
Reading this thread makes me wonder why do we bother doing plumbing ?
I hear more and more now customers moaning and wanting compo for literaly anything now not to mention im going to call gas safe blah blah blah.
I hear more and more now customers moaning and wanting compo for literaly anything now not to mention im going to call gas safe blah blah blah.
If once it happened I was told and got to sort it out, id have no problem. I'm the last person to try and screw someone over. I'm surprised I didn't just hand the money over, a year or 2 ago I probably would have done no questions asked but I'm sick of people taking the mickey for one reason or another. The arrogance to say give us so much money or it goes to court is too much. If I lose and its costs me the fine.
I know what you mean everyday is people pushing for more and more quizzing everything and armed with google.
May wrap this up if i tind the right job
May wrap this up if i tind the right job
You mean 'good practice', not 'good practise'.
I agree with what others have said about not admitting fault. It sounds as if you are accepting that you caused this damage, and we do not know that to be the case for a fact.
I think it would be worth making it clearer that when you left the site, the work was complete and there was no leak evident and that you left on good terms, so it seems odd that they did not want to let you in the house again. As, had I not heard the background, I might assume from that letter that you had left an evident fault or had argued before leaving the site.
Taking YorkshireDave's advice and mixing it with my ideas, I would be inclined to change that first paragraph to something more like:
I made a 'no fault and without prejucide' offer of £150 as a goodwill gesture. I believe this was a fair offer under the circumstances: I was not given an opportunity to inspect, or allowed to repair, the leak you claim I have caused, and was not even made aware that there had been a leak until after you had had it rectified by a third party.
I agree with what others have said about not admitting fault. It sounds as if you are accepting that you caused this damage, and we do not know that to be the case for a fact.
I think it would be worth making it clearer that when you left the site, the work was complete and there was no leak evident and that you left on good terms, so it seems odd that they did not want to let you in the house again. As, had I not heard the background, I might assume from that letter that you had left an evident fault or had argued before leaving the site.
Taking YorkshireDave's advice and mixing it with my ideas, I would be inclined to change that first paragraph to something more like:
I made a 'no fault and without prejucide' offer of £150 as a goodwill gesture. I believe this was a fair offer under the circumstances: I was not given an opportunity to inspect, or allowed to repair, the leak you claim I have caused, and was not even made aware that there had been a leak until after you had had it rectified by a third party.
Last edited:
Armyash, expect to do several drafts before you get it reading properly.
Hello everyone, I hope you are all enjoying your weekend. Its taken me longer than expected to get the letter finished.
Here is another letter, I have taken in to account the points you have all made (which I really do appreciate) and edited the letter accordingly. As already pointed out the letter is quite long but I dont know what to take out because to me it all sounds relevant, if anything I could make it longer! As you all read this you will see the info different to me so whatever may seem irrelevant or needs changing, im open to criticism so hit me.
Dear Ms
Thank you for your letter dated 16.9.18, as requested please accept this letter addressing the points you have raised.
I made a 'no fault and without prejudice' offer of £150 as a goodwill gesture. I believe this was a fair offer under the circumstances: I was not given an opportunity to inspect, or allowed to repair, the leak you claim I have caused, and was not even made aware that there had been a leak until after you had had it rectified by a third party.
Having spoken at some length with those you engaged to rectify the issue, they confirm they advised you to ask me back to rectify the issue. They made a point of explaining that you stated your wish was to take me to court to get the money without making me aware of the issue first. This conversation was recorded and I shall be providing transcripts at disclosure.
I have taken legal advice and I have been told I should have been given the opportunity to rectify the fault within a reasonable time frame. This is called 'repeat performance'. If you didn't want me in the property then I still should have been made aware of the problem and a chance to discuss repairs and come to an agreement. I still hope to resolve this matter amicably but I feel what I have offered is more than fair considering everything.
The first I heard of the matter was when I spoke to Mr... (of adress...) on 11th May 2 months after the toilet was fitted. I asked why was I not asked to make any repairs and he said it was because you didn't want me in the property. If you didn't want me in your property to carry out the repairs I still should have been made aware a repair was needed and given the chance to discuss repairs to be made by another plumber. That never happened, Mr... Said its a case of hand over the sum £300 or you will take me to court. I asked for time to get back to him. This caused me considerable distress as I felt I was being blackmailed.
This is the first correspondence from yourself in the 6 months since I fitted the toilet. All other discussions have been between myself and your partner Mr... who said you didn’t want me to do the repairs.
The toilet was not fitted in a faulty way. It was connected to the existing plumbing and the pan fixed using the designated fixing points on the pan. I had no reason to expect there to be heating pipes under the tiled floor as there had just been a pan fitted there previously and it is not good practice to fit pipes where a pan will need to be fixed. There was no sign of a leak as I fitted the toilet and when I returned a few days later to board up the cavity wall there was still no sign of a leak. There is no realistic way I could have checked for pipes being there.
Not a big deal but for any other correspondence I'd like to make you aware that my surname is... and not...
Yours sincerely
Here is another letter, I have taken in to account the points you have all made (which I really do appreciate) and edited the letter accordingly. As already pointed out the letter is quite long but I dont know what to take out because to me it all sounds relevant, if anything I could make it longer! As you all read this you will see the info different to me so whatever may seem irrelevant or needs changing, im open to criticism so hit me.
Dear Ms
Thank you for your letter dated 16.9.18, as requested please accept this letter addressing the points you have raised.
I made a 'no fault and without prejudice' offer of £150 as a goodwill gesture. I believe this was a fair offer under the circumstances: I was not given an opportunity to inspect, or allowed to repair, the leak you claim I have caused, and was not even made aware that there had been a leak until after you had had it rectified by a third party.
Having spoken at some length with those you engaged to rectify the issue, they confirm they advised you to ask me back to rectify the issue. They made a point of explaining that you stated your wish was to take me to court to get the money without making me aware of the issue first. This conversation was recorded and I shall be providing transcripts at disclosure.
I have taken legal advice and I have been told I should have been given the opportunity to rectify the fault within a reasonable time frame. This is called 'repeat performance'. If you didn't want me in the property then I still should have been made aware of the problem and a chance to discuss repairs and come to an agreement. I still hope to resolve this matter amicably but I feel what I have offered is more than fair considering everything.
The first I heard of the matter was when I spoke to Mr... (of adress...) on 11th May 2 months after the toilet was fitted. I asked why was I not asked to make any repairs and he said it was because you didn't want me in the property. If you didn't want me in your property to carry out the repairs I still should have been made aware a repair was needed and given the chance to discuss repairs to be made by another plumber. That never happened, Mr... Said its a case of hand over the sum £300 or you will take me to court. I asked for time to get back to him. This caused me considerable distress as I felt I was being blackmailed.
This is the first correspondence from yourself in the 6 months since I fitted the toilet. All other discussions have been between myself and your partner Mr... who said you didn’t want me to do the repairs.
The toilet was not fitted in a faulty way. It was connected to the existing plumbing and the pan fixed using the designated fixing points on the pan. I had no reason to expect there to be heating pipes under the tiled floor as there had just been a pan fitted there previously and it is not good practice to fit pipes where a pan will need to be fixed. There was no sign of a leak as I fitted the toilet and when I returned a few days later to board up the cavity wall there was still no sign of a leak. There is no realistic way I could have checked for pipes being there.
Not a big deal but for any other correspondence I'd like to make you aware that my surname is... and not...
Yours sincerely
As suggested, I will add on to the letter how when i finished the job we parted on good terms and she was happy with the work completed so I don't understand why she wouldnt have me back.
good idea?
And when you do send it. Make sure that it is recorded delivery, emailed or both.
- May 23, 2015
- 35,139
- 1
- 14,996
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
It reads well Armyash.
I might have put the lines, -
I will not be held responsible for another trades poor workmanship in regard to your existing pipes location and depth.
I refute the comments in your letter where you retrospectively said ..... the toilet was incorrectly installed .....
I have no option other than to vigorously challenge this allegation
My surname has also been inaccurate.
Armyash, I think I would solely just mention you can provide evidence of what the 3rd party guy told you.
No need to look like at this point that you are taping conversations.
Let the pig guess and over think what you have against her
I might have put the lines, -
I will not be held responsible for another trades poor workmanship in regard to your existing pipes location and depth.
I refute the comments in your letter where you retrospectively said ..... the toilet was incorrectly installed .....
I have no option other than to vigorously challenge this allegation
My surname has also been inaccurate.
Armyash, I think I would solely just mention you can provide evidence of what the 3rd party guy told you.
No need to look like at this point that you are taping conversations.
Let the pig guess and over think what you have against her
Thanks, I will do a final edit in the morning to tweak it and use these points and then get it hand written.
Thanks, with the surname, leave that as the last point made in the letter before i sign off?
Personally I would keep it very sort and sweat, the more details you give these people the more they they have to keep this going.
1. Withdraw the £150 offer.
2. There should not have been u/f heating pipes under the pan position, the installation of this was incorrect & invited this situation.
3. Not withstanding the above, You were not informed nor given the opportunity to investigate or repair.
I know it feels like you need to defend yourself Ash & give your side of the story but it will only serve to provide her with more ammunition, the "he said this & they said that" is just hear say & even if you have some proof it is best kept for if the worst happens.
I take it, it was a sealed heating system ?
if so you could aways add later that they must have been topping up the loss of water without investigating where it was leaking so they contributed to their own damage.
I hate these people, pound to a penny she will have access to the Law in some way and they then think they can use it against hard working guy's & girls like use!!!
I have a rule now days I do not work for any of them - solicitors, lawyers, barristers & worst of all judges, if I find out what they do they can take a running jump been bitten too many times.
1. Withdraw the £150 offer.
2. There should not have been u/f heating pipes under the pan position, the installation of this was incorrect & invited this situation.
3. Not withstanding the above, You were not informed nor given the opportunity to investigate or repair.
I know it feels like you need to defend yourself Ash & give your side of the story but it will only serve to provide her with more ammunition, the "he said this & they said that" is just hear say & even if you have some proof it is best kept for if the worst happens.
I take it, it was a sealed heating system ?
if so you could aways add later that they must have been topping up the loss of water without investigating where it was leaking so they contributed to their own damage.
I hate these people, pound to a penny she will have access to the Law in some way and they then think they can use it against hard working guy's & girls like use!!!
I have a rule now days I do not work for any of them - solicitors, lawyers, barristers & worst of all judges, if I find out what they do they can take a running jump been bitten too many times.
Since it is entirely irrelevant to the rest of the letter, I would say either start the letter with a mention of the misspelled name, or put it last.
Better still would be "another tradesman's" as "another trade" would be better used to describe tilers, electricians or exotic dancers.
Letter sent today.
30 days from her letter is tomorrow, it was hand delivered by my partner with video evidence showing the letter, and the walk to the house putting it through the letterbox. I know this seems weird but if i'd have sent it recorded delivery through the post there's nothing stopping her just not signing for it. I let my partner do the dirty work because had I done it and bumped in to them there might have been some cross words said and I didn't want to risk that.
Anyway, i'm fairly certain she is going to see this all the way through. I feel like the odds are in my favour, but not in a over confident and arrogant way but I think the repeat performance aspect is good. I'm fully aware I could lose because I don't know what else she is going to say. She might tell a pack of lies and the court might believe her but I do have recorded conversations with her partner where I say that they should have called me and he says she didn't because she didn't want me in the house.
I will keep everyone updated with whatever happens next. Thanks again for everything. As I have said before if I lose in court at least I put up a fight. By I, I mean we.
30 days from her letter is tomorrow, it was hand delivered by my partner with video evidence showing the letter, and the walk to the house putting it through the letterbox. I know this seems weird but if i'd have sent it recorded delivery through the post there's nothing stopping her just not signing for it. I let my partner do the dirty work because had I done it and bumped in to them there might have been some cross words said and I didn't want to risk that.
Anyway, i'm fairly certain she is going to see this all the way through. I feel like the odds are in my favour, but not in a over confident and arrogant way but I think the repeat performance aspect is good. I'm fully aware I could lose because I don't know what else she is going to say. She might tell a pack of lies and the court might believe her but I do have recorded conversations with her partner where I say that they should have called me and he says she didn't because she didn't want me in the house.
I will keep everyone updated with whatever happens next. Thanks again for everything. As I have said before if I lose in court at least I put up a fight. By I, I mean we.
Last edited:
Armyash all the best also from me.
Relax now as you have done your work on your letter and put the ball back into her court.
If she does put it to Small Claims Court, I assume the procedure is more or less the same all over U.K.
If she foolishly eventually sends an application, it would probably take a fairly long period before the court process sends you the paperwork.
The advantage will be slightly yours, as she will have to include a letter to the court of her basic story, to which you will receive a copy together with court papers.
That means she puts her cards on the table (basically revealing her case) and you can then decide how to respond and to every point.
You usually get 4 options -
(1) you could ignore, but not advisable
(2) you can admit you owe the claim
(3) you can refute it
(4) you can refute it and also counterclaim
Obviously you will go with (3) or (4) option.
A Judge on the court day could decide to split the costs, with no real winner, but I guess that would still be a result.
There is no appeal on a Small Claims Court judgement normally, so always a risk.
But time to consider all of that, only if court papers come to you later.
Remember it is the lowest form of courts and a really minor case and of small change money, so don’t worry about it and just keep standing up for yourself.
Relax now as you have done your work on your letter and put the ball back into her court.
If she does put it to Small Claims Court, I assume the procedure is more or less the same all over U.K.
If she foolishly eventually sends an application, it would probably take a fairly long period before the court process sends you the paperwork.
The advantage will be slightly yours, as she will have to include a letter to the court of her basic story, to which you will receive a copy together with court papers.
That means she puts her cards on the table (basically revealing her case) and you can then decide how to respond and to every point.
You usually get 4 options -
(1) you could ignore, but not advisable
(2) you can admit you owe the claim
(3) you can refute it
(4) you can refute it and also counterclaim
Obviously you will go with (3) or (4) option.
A Judge on the court day could decide to split the costs, with no real winner, but I guess that would still be a result.
There is no appeal on a Small Claims Court judgement normally, so always a risk.
But time to consider all of that, only if court papers come to you later.
Remember it is the lowest form of courts and a really minor case and of small change money, so don’t worry about it and just keep standing up for yourself.
Hi Armyash. Read this one with interest. I no longer run my business and am back in full time employment so can chat about this quite candidly now.
When running my business I once had to solder a gas pipe in a really awkward space, too tight to even get a mirror round to inspect the joint. The whole gas pipe run we’d done passed tightness testing fine. I got called back to a smell of gas in the airing cupboard. Tested it again and sure enough, a full drop leak. Turned out the solder had not run all the way round the back of the joint. This left a pinhole sealed with flux that passed the industry standard tightness test! Given that I’ve seen with my own eyes a flux pinhole hold back 2 bars of pressure for years on a sealed heating system this was incredibly bad luck..
Transco also attended this job due to a faulty regulator and they didn’t pick the leak up either..
Was this my fault? Not really it just happens, there was no way I could see right round this joint.
Customer wouldn’t let me fix it and told me to leave. Then sent me a bill for BG to rip out the whole central heating system we’d newly installed and to have it all redone as he no longer had faith in my install. I beat myself up over this and had many sleepless nights but ultimately I followed correct testing procedure and thus GSR didn’t find me liable or strike me off.
I politely told his solicitor we wouldn’t pay it as we had not had opportunity to repair the leak which we would have done on the day.
Despite various threats no court action ever came about and that was for a threatened claim of over £5000...
They won’t be successful for any claim if they haven’t given you an opportunity to repair it first. They have a legal duty to minimise costs being claimed for.
When running my business I once had to solder a gas pipe in a really awkward space, too tight to even get a mirror round to inspect the joint. The whole gas pipe run we’d done passed tightness testing fine. I got called back to a smell of gas in the airing cupboard. Tested it again and sure enough, a full drop leak. Turned out the solder had not run all the way round the back of the joint. This left a pinhole sealed with flux that passed the industry standard tightness test! Given that I’ve seen with my own eyes a flux pinhole hold back 2 bars of pressure for years on a sealed heating system this was incredibly bad luck..
Transco also attended this job due to a faulty regulator and they didn’t pick the leak up either..
Was this my fault? Not really it just happens, there was no way I could see right round this joint.
Customer wouldn’t let me fix it and told me to leave. Then sent me a bill for BG to rip out the whole central heating system we’d newly installed and to have it all redone as he no longer had faith in my install. I beat myself up over this and had many sleepless nights but ultimately I followed correct testing procedure and thus GSR didn’t find me liable or strike me off.
I politely told his solicitor we wouldn’t pay it as we had not had opportunity to repair the leak which we would have done on the day.
Despite various threats no court action ever came about and that was for a threatened claim of over £5000...
They won’t be successful for any claim if they haven’t given you an opportunity to repair it first. They have a legal duty to minimise costs being claimed for.
Interesting post there cr0ft, thanks for that. Glad you came out of that one unscathed.
I still haven't heard anything but then it took her months to write to me anyway. Surely there must be some sort of statute of limitations.
I still haven't heard anything but then it took her months to write to me anyway. Surely there must be some sort of statute of limitations.
W
Welder
W
Welder
Even if she does, it has no impact in law on this issue Ash. There is a fully formed & well troden path to do this stuff and she simply didnt follow it 😉
Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk
Similar plumbing topics
- Question
- Question
- Question
- Question
- Question
- Question
We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.