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- Thread starter Hobo128
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- gas engineer
I feel obligated to at least carry out a spillage as if it fails badly it is obviously ID and I was last engineer at it.
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diamondgas
I wouldn't disagree that erring on the side of caution will not be the wrong decision GrahamM... However why even start work on something you have no knowledge of or any mi's for guidance? When asked on the paperwork did you work on it the answer will be 'NO' in the commments you write something along the lines of 'no mi's or knowledge of the appliance, visual check only!' Inform the responsible person!
Today i had my first visit from gas safe, and we were talking about regulation 26.9 and subject came to exactly this situation. As i posted before, without MI or data unable to comply 26.9.C! It states in BPEC domestic gas safety manual mod 10 page 4!
And inspector said you can't service the appliance because of 26.9.C. It is not just operating pressure or heat input, it is also coals here.
So i think if you don't want to At-risk or ID the appliance ( depends on how satisfactory ) , best thing is not to get the job and explain the customer. Because at the end of the day , there is engineers name and signature on the service .
And inspector said you can't service the appliance because of 26.9.C. It is not just operating pressure or heat input, it is also coals here.
So i think if you don't want to At-risk or ID the appliance ( depends on how satisfactory ) , best thing is not to get the job and explain the customer. Because at the end of the day , there is engineers name and signature on the service .
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diamondgas
That makes perfectly good safe working practice IMO ... I've said to many a custard that I cannot work on their appliance but will check to see if it is at least clearing the fumes!
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kirkgas
where MUST you do a spillage test on a ?? make and ?? model, without MI you cannot do a spillage test, and i can quote the generic statement as well as anyone, but it says "unless MI says otherwise", ok a DFE will be at the flue box/catchment space front, but might be at a specific position, so again no MI = no HI, coal placement or spillage for me, so it has to be AR with the advice not to use it, therefore allowing the customer to make an informed judgement call which they can be held liable for
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I have seen enough fires by many manufactures to at least have a general idea where to take a basic spillage from the various formats.
This gives me a general indication, in the absence of MI's, in my professional opinion if the flue is at least drawing.
Bearing in mind I have no MI's to carry out a proper service- this is only a basic safety check and if in my professional opinion the spill is ok I will leave the fire as AR and inform customer that MI's will need to be procured for full service to be carried out.
In my opinion this is the very least that should be done.
This gives me a general indication, in the absence of MI's, in my professional opinion if the flue is at least drawing.
Bearing in mind I have no MI's to carry out a proper service- this is only a basic safety check and if in my professional opinion the spill is ok I will leave the fire as AR and inform customer that MI's will need to be procured for full service to be carried out.
In my opinion this is the very least that should be done.
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diamondgas
Anyone heard of a DGI label? Don't Get Involved! Personally I take each circumstance on its merits; age of appliance, observation of its surroundings and the customer using it or not as the case may be. In other words give it a visual! Maybe familiarity breeds contempt in my case *shrug* I still struggle to get my head around turning something off because of my lack of knowledge though? These incidences are few and far between in my experience so will not dwell to much TBH ... I do not disagree with you regards At Risking being the safest approach to adopt but what is the appliance at risk of ... An LFE that needs removing to inspect catchment space etc I can understand AR, but a DGF that sits in front of a chair brick and an open Chimney sucking like a Dyson ... hmmmm!
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glenno1
IMO on this the engineer at the scene has to leave that property and occupants safe by law so if he suspects it to be unsafe he should carry out whatever work to make safe.So if he has no paper work to go by he may have to cap off
I agree with you to a point.
I'm with you on the duty of care.
But if you suspect something is not correct or have no way to confirm it is correct, you can only advise of the risk and leave it AR.
You cannot ID an appliance because you suspect it may be unsafe. Only if you know it is unsafe can you cut & cap.
If you suspect it may be unsafe it is AR.
i would AR it myself, when working on Scottish Gas contract they want you to AR every appliance that doesnt have MIs or Data Badge and do spillage tests on every fire. I wouldnt AR it myself if it had a data badge as i could confirm it was working safely but with neither I would feel better classing it as AR. We are only turning off appliance and attaching label, nothing stopping customer from turning appliance back on
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kirkgas
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kirkgas
there is a specific fire in an assessment room ( i cant remember the actual make/model, but doesnt matter) which requires a spillage test to be carried out 50mm from the right hand side of the canopy, without reading the MI and using generic knowledge and experience everyone would run a smoke match along the front of the canopy, this would be wrong and could lead to a wrong statement being made about its safety, and has caught out plenty of guys doing their ACS
Well diamongas, a fair point about removing someone's sole source of heat. However, I usually come across these dfe's when they're decorative & supplementary. That's why I agree with the others who say its dodgy to work on them. Not just for your professional safety, but your clients'.
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fewkes
as far as i believe, if there are no MI's or date plate there is no way to confirm your readings and certainly no way to confirm the coals are installed correctly(they may have been rong before you attended), this would lead me to leave the fire as AR, explain the risks to the customer and its then their decision to use the fire or not. but your arse is covered.
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combo
God knows what a member of the public thinks when reading this thread....sorry to bring it back :death:
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combo
The reason I posted on this thread was because I was wondering whether we ever got to bottom of working on an appliance without manufacturers instructions.....Can you or can't you ?? I see so many posts on this forum where there never seems to be a 'definite' answer, which I find bizarre in a industry so heavily ( !!!! ) regulated.
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