you should see the solder turn dull then wipe/add a tiny bit off the brush and then whipe the whole joint with a damp rag/cloth and done
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How to solder vertical joints
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View the thread, titled "How to solder vertical joints" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
you should see the solder turn dull then wipe/add a tiny bit off the brush and then whipe the whole joint with a damp rag/cloth and done
I wouldn't cool the fitting with flux or water just after it is soldered. Might weaken the joint. Brushing some flux over it and then giving the whole fitting a short blast of heat again to melt the solder leaves it guaranteed to be sound again if left alone to reharden
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the solder will tell you when its cool/ ready to be wiped it will turn dull which is the solder cooling off and hardening
J
JCSPLUMBING
Best. You are old school as I am. These newbies get a angle finder out to bend pipe. Then wonder why there not earning any money
J
JCSPLUMBING
Just leave it alone for a few mins and wipe it later. I know when it's soldered right and always confident of the joint. It's the odd compression fitting that worries me more.
I know that! :smile: Been wiping soldered joints forever.
I usually only wipe them while the solder is still liquid as I keep the torch topping the heat up if needed. I will not wipe or move a joint without giving it a final heat & I won't touch it until it's hard. I basically do it like a lead pipe joint. Obviously I try to do lead free soldering with little or no wiping as it is difficult to work with
J
JCSPLUMBING
I don't touch it at all for about a minute or so then wipe it over. It's only soldering a joint. You just know if it's right as it gives you a very visual marker by a nice silver ring.
Us newbies can only do as we're taught, until we get taught better by old school folk like yourselves on here 😉
I use grease based traditional flux which is gentle on the pipe & lets the solder flow well. I try not to overheat the fitting - so all it needs is a rub over with a rag to remove flux when cool & perhaps a shine up with steel wool. Yes, I am old school, :smile: but my plumbing just is built to give no trouble.
But you can have the nice ring of solder and the internal joint missing patches of solder. I see this a lot with plumbers joints and I think it is down to dirty fittings not cleaned first on mild flux & perhaps also careless heating of fitting. I think my way of adding flux as you solder by a dab on tip of solder wire is the proper way. Let's face it, flux runs out of fitting as you heat the fitting
J
JCSPLUMBING
I agree mate. But you just know when it's right by the feel of it etc
The man that taught me was a perfectionist and I could never improve on his ideas, except I try to be a bit quicker. I was lucky to learn from him. I think it is hard to go against a habit you have been taught. Leaks were not acceptable ever by him.
I am sure you have removed a soldered joint you did by melting it off because you wanted to modify your pipe work or add to it. It gives a great test to how good your soldering is.
Aren't we (plumbers) here to prevent leaks?? Among other things. I can't walk away from a job even if something ever so slightly weeps.. If it ain't dry, it ain't right.
At the end of the day, I think there are a few different techniques to soldering and its what suits you best - as long as the end result is the same: a solid, dry and long lasting joint.
I am same. I will not accept very slight damp at brass joints or at washer at valve heads or packing nuts. I will replace new olives with better ones & I use brass olives instead of copper on heating pipes. I also use paste on compression joints. I am careful to compress joints & I check they are compressed & full in and I know that is weird, but no plumber can be sure of all types of brass fittings being compressed or full in and the worst thing about them is a pipe falling out.
Take no chances and hopefully you will have no bother
Take no chances and hopefully you will have no bother
Which flux is it you use Best? Which are grease based?
I use the Traditional Yorkshire Flux or the similar greased based Fluxite. I read on this forum it is like a Vaseline base. Apparently it can burn a bit if getting overheated when doing hotter work, like on lead free soldering, but I have no bother with it. Got to clean the inside of fittings & outside of pipe, unlike acid based fluxes.
I don't like Powerflux or Everflux, but have a new tub of Laco to try.
Guess I am doing if the old fashioned but proven way. I know some jobs are specified to use the traditional flux
Interesting will have to give it a go.
I suck at soldering 🙁 I don't know where I'm going wrong.... Just tried that method in the video, first attempt only one side took completely, 2nd attempt was a lot better. Then it just all went Pete tong from there.
I hold the heat on the fitting for around 10 seconds and gently tap the solder on the joint until it melts.. I dab it on the other side so it goes all the way round. Then I solder the other side of the fitting ... And repeat.
But then I get this:
Or this:
Some of my soldering comes out great, and then some of it looks like the above.
Where am I going wrong? Could I be using too much flux?
I hold the heat on the fitting for around 10 seconds and gently tap the solder on the joint until it melts.. I dab it on the other side so it goes all the way round. Then I solder the other side of the fitting ... And repeat.
But then I get this:
Or this:
Some of my soldering comes out great, and then some of it looks like the above.
Where am I going wrong? Could I be using too much flux?
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Needs slightly more heat and a wee bit more solder
More heat before I apply the solder?
Slightly yes and a wee bit more solder your nearly there tho
I'm just paranoid of holding it there too long and burning all the flux away..
Tbh I've had a fitting red hot and it's been fine also if you want dip the end of your solder in the flux a bit if you think your too hot
Will give it another bash tomorrow.. Its time for wine and a film about now 😉
Cheers Sean, appreciate the help!!
Np and tbh if you get a blob or run don't worrie too much as it happens and your never too far from a file or sandpaper
Okie dokes ... I've a length of 15 and 22 and a load of fittings and have rigged up a board on the back of my cupboard door with clips to solder on, I'm determined to get confident before I go back to work lol
Id rather murder the joint with solder and flux than run risk of leaks.. Last guy I worked for was abit of perfectionist and wouldnt let me solder..would be fine but his joints leaked on half of the jobs incluidng about 4 leaks on new 28mm boiler install.
Didnt help that we only used normal propane, I since learned that Mapp is the way to go
Didnt help that we only used normal propane, I since learned that Mapp is the way to go
Propane is fine, its just not as hot as mapp so takes a little longer..
Anything over 28 I use map
Furry muff.. That's why I love this place.. Always learning!!! 😉
Propane is more than good enough for soldering most plumbing - even above 28mm.
Using a Surefire torch with propane is actually too hot. Remember it's called a brazing torch!
I spent most of my life using a standard blow lamp onto a 2 metre hose attached to a BUTANE gas bottle!!! And it was normally more than capable of doing any joint and very fast on 15 & 22mm. After all, if the solder is melting all around joint, the joint is about at its proper soldering heat. It is not a weld you are doing!
I blame bad soldering mainly on lack of training and wrong flux & its lack of use as well as overheating. Adding a dot of flux to the tip of the wire solder as you solder means the joint stays fluxed & clean & solder flows & capillarys well. You can't solder if you didn't have flux, so why expect to over heat a fitting & for a long period without adding flux constantly? Joint simply oxidises including the edge of the fitting & solder won't stick or flow right. Sometimes danger of pipes being slightly out of line due to walls out of shape if pipes are clipped etc & this can mean pipe is open fractionally more to one side of fitting. This can cause the solder to not stay to the side neatly. So try to keep pipes straight. I know my joints will not leak - ever & I just turn the water on without any worry of any leak. My choice of flux (traditional grease based) is a great flowing flux & gentle on pipe & a big advantage IMO.
Using a Surefire torch with propane is actually too hot. Remember it's called a brazing torch!
I spent most of my life using a standard blow lamp onto a 2 metre hose attached to a BUTANE gas bottle!!! And it was normally more than capable of doing any joint and very fast on 15 & 22mm. After all, if the solder is melting all around joint, the joint is about at its proper soldering heat. It is not a weld you are doing!
I blame bad soldering mainly on lack of training and wrong flux & its lack of use as well as overheating. Adding a dot of flux to the tip of the wire solder as you solder means the joint stays fluxed & clean & solder flows & capillarys well. You can't solder if you didn't have flux, so why expect to over heat a fitting & for a long period without adding flux constantly? Joint simply oxidises including the edge of the fitting & solder won't stick or flow right. Sometimes danger of pipes being slightly out of line due to walls out of shape if pipes are clipped etc & this can mean pipe is open fractionally more to one side of fitting. This can cause the solder to not stay to the side neatly. So try to keep pipes straight. I know my joints will not leak - ever & I just turn the water on without any worry of any leak. My choice of flux (traditional grease based) is a great flowing flux & gentle on pipe & a big advantage IMO.
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Sure If you are experienced you can probably solder with your lighter right?
If standard propane is used on big fitting and you still use same technique as for 15mm where you hold torch on one point of fitting and prod solder into one point you will end up with a leaky fitting. Whilst Mapp gas doesnt require you to be heating the fitting forever at several angles so I use Mapp.
If standard propane is used on big fitting and you still use same technique as for 15mm where you hold torch on one point of fitting and prod solder into one point you will end up with a leaky fitting. Whilst Mapp gas doesnt require you to be heating the fitting forever at several angles so I use Mapp.
I just use a bigger nozzle !! As per Best post above.
To highlight just how good the resin based fluxes are I once pull out two 15mm coupling which had remained leak free with 8 floors head above for 35years, unsoldered.
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