Just had an argument about tightness testing

[kirkgas]

i have this discussion almost weekly in the training centre, some disagree when i say you dont need to do one for every task, they say yes you should and they do as they like to sleep at night, my answer to that is "so you do a TT when not mandatory and find a 2mb leak, do you then isolate appliances and test carcass only or are you happy to leave 2mb" some say they leave it but if they want to sleep well at night how can they leave a 2mb drop which might be on a pipe, which we all know cant be left, they are doing half a task rather than completing the whole thing, so either comply with the reg or go the whole hog and if you overstep the reg then do everything that you can to determine where the 2mb drop is, or do what i do any fully comply with the reg and test when mandatory (as long as you know when it is mandatory, and i do)

 

[SafeGasInstall]

lol that was me and my apprentice

 

[AWheating]

can you clarify what you mean by the bit i have highlighted, if taken literally as ANY work needs a TT then you are wrong, you do not NEED to do a TT when you service or repair a gas appliance for a private customer (by that i mean not a tenanted property) if you mean before altering or adding to a carcass then i agree with you

i was talking about installation/work on pipework, i guess it could have been worded better 😉. I perform a tightness test no matter what work i am doing as thats the way i have always done things, working 17 years in tennanted housing gets you into the habbit!

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

i was talking about installation/work on pipework, i guess it could have been worded better 😉. I perform a tightness test no matter what work i am doing as thats the way i have always done things, working 17 years in tennanted housing gets you into the habbit!

You only need to do it after but common sense suggests doing it before can be a good idea to protect yourself against being blamed for problems already there. Question is in you long years of experence how useful has it to you to do a TT before?
You can find the requirements under technical guidence when you log into GSR - search tightness.

I am not sure Kirkgas is right or wrong about servicing and repairing. I think you DO need to do a TT AFTER certain types of repair. You guys check the technical guidence.

 

[AWheating]

how useful? very.

Number of times i have entered a property and found a problem, pointless adding a new appliance onto an exsisting carcus if it needs repair/replacing. Some Landlords are crafty and try to make it your problem once you have started work.

always protect yourself i say!

 

[AWheating]

i have also worked for landlords that require the recording of the results of your initial and final tightness tests on your landlord cert, something they insisted on.

 

[mfgs]

i have this discussion almost weekly in the training centre, some disagree when i say you dont need to do one for every task, they say yes you should and they do as they like to sleep at night, my answer to that is "so you do a TT when not mandatory and find a 2mb leak, do you then isolate appliances and test carcass only or are you happy to leave 2mb" some say they leave it but if they want to sleep well at night how can they leave a 2mb drop which might be on a pipe, which we all know cant be left, they are doing half a task rather than completing the whole thing, so either comply with the reg or go the whole hog and if you overstep the reg then do everything that you can to determine where the 2mb drop is, or do what i do any fully comply with the reg and test when mandatory (as long as you know when it is mandatory, and i do)

I was waiting for you to come along and answer on this lol. My exact feelings on it. You are opening a can of worms and will end up with an unhappy customer.

 

[GrahamM]

It is good practice to carry out a tightness test during a routine service, although not mandatory.
A tightness test is only required during a routine service if you have to interrupt the gas supply to an installation. ie. removing an appliance etc. or if you suspect a gas leak.

As most of us know, BG do not want the headache of investigating permissible drops in install after install so they do not carry out a tightness test as a mater of course.

 

[mickie]

its not mandatory, so to hell with it.. if their is a massive leak under the floor, just leave it till something goes bang?...

if you find a leak doing a TT even though you didnt really have to, i'd have thought most people would be happy, most normal people wouldnt want a gas leak.. if people are testing but then leaving the problem, thats their problem, if they're happy to assume its not a danger to life

 

[aggis]

You only need to do it after but common sense suggests doing it before can be a good idea to protect yourself against being blamed for problems already there. Question is in you long years of experence how useful has it to you to do a TT before?
You can find the requirements under technical guidence when you log into GSR - search tightness.

I am not sure Kirkgas is right or wrong about servicing and repairing. I think you DO need to do a TT. You guys check the technical guidence.

Kirkgas is spot on.

Doing a TT before a job is a requirement not just common sense before carrying out installation/alteration to pipework.
Servicing, only broken joints need checking if issolated at appliance.
If no issolation at appliance you must do the TT's when you turn off at meter.

If you do, do TT's on every job for peace of mind the full criteria must be carried out.

 

[mickeyuk]

Spot on ! Kirkgas

 

[GQuigley67]

if you had to do a tightness test on each appliance you work on, then why the need for service/isolation valves? Test for tightness at P1 and spray with LDF no need to do full carcass unless alteration to pipework, write what you done on paperwork

 

[kirkgas]

You only need to do it after but common sense suggests doing it before can be a good idea to protect yourself against being blamed for problems already there. Question is in you long years of experence how useful has it to you to do a TT before?
You can find the requirements under technical guidence when you log into GSR - search tightness.

I am not sure Kirkgas is right or wrong about servicing and repairing. I think you DO need to do a TT. You guys check the technical guidence.

you are wrong with both the highlighted comments😛
if you NEED to do a TT then only doing it after can prove problematic, ie if you alter a pipe and do a TT after and find no drop then all is well (and you are lucky) but if you alter the pipe, test after and find a 1mb drop then you cannot CONFIRM that the drop isnt on your new work, the amount of muppets who i have to keep right on this is terrible, they say as long as you do a TT after the install and it is under permissable drop then you are fine,
the second point is not open for discussion there is MY way and the WRONG way😎, seriously, if you think i'm wrong then you need to check the technical guidence, apologies may be written on the back of a £5 note

 

[kirkgas]

I was waiting for you to come along and answer on this lol. My exact feelings on it. You are opening a can of worms and will end up with an unhappy customer.

haha at least i'm dependable

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

if you had to do a tightness test on each appliance you work on, then why the need for service/isolation valves? Test for tightness at P1 and spray with LDF no need to do full carcass unless alteration to pipework, write what you done on paperwork

Yes that is right.

Mr TP is home and he can't believe such heated debate among all you Gas Qualified engineers!

There is nothing wrong with doing TT before any work, I said I think it might be a good idea and I asked whether you had found this useful.

According to the Rules, however, eg: on GSR technical guidence website, it is NOT compulsory to do a TT before any gas work.
Kirkgas, what you are saying makes sense but the question is about what what are the rules.

MR TP tells me you should do a TT before anything else IF the customer smells gas.
Like Kirk gas he would do a TT before any alteration of the gas carcus eg installation of new appliance, because AFTER any alteration to the gas Carcus NO DROP is permissible.

Kirkgas this is what you said and you are right.
There is no permissible drop after installation of boilers or other pipework alterations.

As for after servicing no TT OK.
Anything else:
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
6 (6) Where a person carries out any work in relation to a gas fitting which might affect the gas tightness of the gas installation he shall immediately thereafter test the installation for gas tightness at least as far as the nearest valves upstream and downstream in the installation.
There i s more explanation of this at GSR website, when you login as installer.

 

[kirkgas]

Yes that is right.

Mr TP is home and he can't believe such heated debate among all you Gas Qualified engineers!

There is nothing wrong with doing TT before any work, I said I think it might be a good idea and I asked whether you had found this useful.

According to the Rules, however, eg: on GSR technical guidence website, it is NOT compulsory to do a TT before any gas work.
Kirkgas, what you are saying makes sense but the question is about what what are the rules.

MR TP tells me you should do a TT before anything else IF the customer smells gas.
Like Kirk gas he would do a TT before any alteration of the gas carcus eg installation of new appliance, because AFTER any alteration to the gas Carcus NO DROP is permissible.

Kirkgas this is what you said and you are right.
There is no permissible drop after installation of boilers or other pipework alterations.

As for after servicing no TT OK.
Anything else:
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
6 (6) Where a person carries out any work in relation to a gas fitting which might affect the gas tightness of the gas installation he shall immediately thereafter test the installation for gas tightness at least as far as the nearest valves upstream and downstream in the installation.
There i s more explanation of this at GSR website, when you login as installer.

the point i have highlighted and underlined isnt correct, see if you can check on GSR and see where you have went wrong

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

oo I love a quiz! The worst thing about GSR is trying to put in the impossible password to login, not sure how to change it to PASSWORD.
And Mr TP has gone out again so i can't ask him.

 

[tamz]

From IGE UP1B

5.4 NEW EXTENSIONS/ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING INSTALLATIONS
Before commencing the new work, the existing installation shall be tightness
tested in accordance with clause 5.3.2 and any permissible pressure drop over
the 2 minute test period noted (see also Sub-Section 4.2).
Upon completion of the work to the existing system, the tightness test shall be
repeated and the pressure loss after the 2 minute test period shall be no greater
than that previously measured and there shall be no smell of gas.

This is how it should be done.

 

[GQuigley67]

if you don't do a TT before you alter pipe then you can't prove tightness simple as really

 

[Bartdude]

Well Kirk teaches the rules every day,so now I guess he's on a busmans holiday🙂